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Old October 9, 2023, 01:12 PM   #1
oldbear1950
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paper patched bulllets

Are any of you familiar with paper patched bullets, and loading and shooting them?
I have heard that at one time all the ammo companies loaded paper patched bullets. That they shot fine and in fact were extremely accurate.

Question I have can regular bullets be paper patched, or do they have to be undersized to paper patch them.

I have watched Larry Potterfield of Midway arms doing it, but he does not state if they are undersized, or regular size.
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Old October 9, 2023, 02:57 PM   #2
FrankenMauser
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Paper patching is a simple idea, but complicated when you get into all of the variables and details.
I recommend starting by getting a copy of The Paper Jacket by Paul A. Matthews.
From there, you'll know what questions and answers to look for elsewhere. As usual for these things, the castboolits forums have a lot of data and answers available.

All bullets can be paper patched. Even jacketed and solid copper bullets.
What you're trying to do, and how the rifle responds to patching, will determine whether you need to start with an undersized bullet.

Patching up to groove diameter, or patching over groove diameter depends on the application.
Most cartridges that used paper patching to start larger than groove diameter were paired with generous and tapered throats, and/or tapered bore (and/or grooves) through a portion or the entirety of the barrel -- and nearly always a bullet alloy of pure lead, or close to it.

For example: Certain variants of Martini-Henrys in .577/450 used the tapered bore. Depending on how and when the barrel was made or re-bored, the throat starts at about .476", tapering to about .472-474". Then the barrel continues tapering to .464-.468".
The .465-.468" bullet, patched to .472-.474" gets continually squished from the time it leaves the case, until it leaves the muzzle.
(At which time, if you have done your part right, you get a little celebration of confetti fluttering to the ground through the black powder smoke.)
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Old October 9, 2023, 03:42 PM   #3
HiBC
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First,I do not want to misrepresent my acquaintance with Elmer Keith.

I was visiting a friend of my wife's (at the time) and this friend was an old family friend of Elmers. She called Elmer and I was invited for a visit.

So I went! We had coffee in his Man Cave/Trophy Room.

I had a special experience. It does not make me "One of Elmer's People"

We discussed paper patching. He pulled out a few samples of paper patches.

Parallelograms, sized so the angled ends butted clean on the bullet diameter.

They would be sealed with waterglass or gum Arabic. I noticed the paper had a watermark "Neenah Bond 100% rag" That stuck with me because my Grandfather worked there,
The papers would be rolled with some overhang past the bullet base then folded.

From those as a pattern, I made and hardened a few templates out of 1/16 in thick O-1 flat ground tool steel, the idea being an exacto-knife could be used to cut patches.
I gave it all to the late Mike McCormick, Friend and then Proprietor of Cache Le Poudre Rifleworks in Ft Collins, Colorado.
He was a Buckskinner,and dealer of Shilo and other fine Sharpes Rifles.

A Fine and Honest Trader and Black Powder enthusiast.

I miss Him. And his shop
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Old October 9, 2023, 04:27 PM   #4
ligonierbill
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I will share my experience. First, I second FrankenMauser's recommendation of Paul Matthews' book. All you need in my opinion.

I am paper patching for 3 calibers. First, the Martini-Henry 577/450. I bought a few original cordite rounds, and yep, they are paper patched. And yes, bullets are undersized. For the "cross-eyed old bitch", I wrapped 0.451 bullets in the typical 2 layers of 4 mil onionskin. Seems to work, but half my shots go wide in the ditch, or rather pretty high.

I have a 50-70 rolling block put together by Mike Nesbitt on an original action, and I've followed his recommendation of a 0.504 500 gr bullet, again wrapped in two layers of 4 mil. The nice thing is, since you are not crimping into a groove, you can load a full 70 gr of holy black. I put a gentle taper crimp on it, but the old buffalo hunters would simply hand seat and take care not to let their bullets fall out.

Finally, I have an old buchsflinte (cape gun to Brits and sorry I forgot how to type the umlaut) that was sold to me as a 11.7x51R Danish. It will fire that ammo, but not accurately, and it slugs 0.470 (11.9 mm). I've since purchased a 0.470 mold, but have not yet fired any of those bullets. I have paper patched some 0.459 lube groove bullets from Buffalo Arms, and they shoot very well.

I'm fixin' to try some 0.451 480 gr in my Trapdoor.

Rolling the patches correctly is a manual skill requiring practice, but it is not all that difficult.
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Old October 9, 2023, 05:26 PM   #5
gwpercle
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If you would like more info ... the Cast Boolits & Gunloads site has a complete section devoted to Paper Patching . There are some good "Stickies" with some information on the subject and if you join ... you can ask questions and get help .
When it comes to Paper Patching there are a dozen different ways to do any of it ... undersized moulds , regular moulds , paper of many different kinds and thickness ... I've even tried patching a 30-30 cal. rifle boolit with Teflon Plumber's Tape ... which works quite well !

Gary

Last edited by gwpercle; October 9, 2023 at 05:31 PM.
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Old October 10, 2023, 08:11 AM   #6
Jim Watson
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I read of one project to paper patch standard .284" 7mm bullets to fit a .280 Ross at .287-.289".
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Old October 12, 2023, 07:56 AM   #7
DaleA
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Captain Thread Veer here:
IIRC paper patching was a plot point used in the first Bob Lee Swagger book by Stephen Hunter 'Point of Impact'.

https://www.amazon.com/Point-Impact-...s%2C107&sr=8-1

The uber evil bad guys with unlimited bad guy resources retrieved bullets fired from Bob Lee Swagger's rifle at their range, paper patched them and then fired the bullets in a different rifle, which the bad guys had modified with a slightly larger diameter barrel, to kill a foreign official. Ballistics matched the killing bullets to Bob Lee Swagger's rifle framing him for the murder.
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Old October 12, 2023, 08:27 AM   #8
Jim Watson
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The Mob framed comic strip detective Kerry Drake by somehow obtaining a bullet fired from his .38, patching it, and firing it from a smoothbore dueling pistol, too.
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Old October 12, 2023, 11:27 AM   #9
ballardw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleA View Post
Captain Thread Veer here:
IIRC paper patching was a plot point used in the first Bob Lee Swagger book by Stephen Hunter 'Point of Impact'.

https://www.amazon.com/Point-Impact-...s%2C107&sr=8-1

The uber evil bad guys with unlimited bad guy resources retrieved bullets fired from Bob Lee Swagger's rifle at their range, paper patched them and then fired the bullets in a different rifle, which the bad guys had modified with a slightly larger diameter barrel, to kill a foreign official. Ballistics matched the killing bullets to Bob Lee Swagger's rifle framing him for the murder.
And in the 2007 movie Shooter (probably at least loosely based on the book)
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Old November 5, 2023, 11:56 AM   #10
Oldrifle
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Paper patching is a straightforward concept that becomes intricate when you consider all the factors and specifics.I suggest that you start by purchasing a copy of Paul A. Matthews' The Paper Jacket.
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Old November 5, 2023, 04:00 PM   #11
ernie8
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One of the more stupid things in a stupid movie .
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Old November 5, 2023, 05:08 PM   #12
mehavey
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Quote:
Paper patching is a straightforward concept that becomes
intricate when you consider all the factors
^^^ THIS ^^^
But worth it for some situations . . .
https://i.postimg.cc/63Rx2snZ/Sharps...Ld-Trgt-sm.jpg


FWIW: Powder Coating (PC) has supplanted a lot of the need/benefits of PP.
(don't read too much into that )
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