Does a Remington 870 Express have a forcing cone?

UK2TX · August 8, 2001, 02:10 PM

Hello Chaps,

I recently asked Remington to let me know what the standard length of a forcing cone was on a 870 and rec'ed the following reply:

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 1:31 PM
To: <snip>
Subject: What is the standard length of ... [Incident:remington
010802-000035]

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Subject
---------------------------------------------------------------
What is the standard length of the forcing code on a 26" barrel for a Remingt...

Suggested Answer
---------------------------------------------------------------
At 08/08/2001 02:09 PM we wrote -
Dear <snip>:

Welcome to Remington Country!

Forcing cones are featured on our sporting models. Our Model 870 Express is a field grade model shotgun. A forcing cone will not greatly improve or enhance the performance of a field model shotgun.

Thank you for your interest in Remington products.

Does anyone know if this is actually correct and if so why?

Regards,

UK2TX

E. BeauBeaux · August 8, 2001, 03:41 PM

It's my understanding that forcing cones have not changed. When the new plastic shell's came out they used the same forcing cone as before even though more is needed for the plastic. If someone knows different please post and I'll admit being wrong. If the barrel on the Express is not too thin, extending the forcing cone will help some with recoil and improve the pattern a little.

PJR · August 8, 2001, 05:09 PM

Hmmmm..

No forcing cone at all?????

No improvement on a field grade model but they have them on sporting guns????

The 870 does have a forcing cone but a very short one. The answer about the field and sporting guns is contradictory and frankly ridiculous.

There is plenty of barrel to extend should one desire. That's how Vang makes his living.

Maybe Big Green needs a little more knowledge in the answer department. Sheesh.

UK2TX · August 8, 2001, 05:18 PM

I too cannot believe the answer received from Remington, hence my post. I've already asked them to explain themselves and will post their response ( usually takes a week ).

FWIW my reason for asking the question was to establish how much extra I needed to ream in.

Regards,

UK2TX

Dave McC · August 8, 2001, 06:25 PM

Somebody at Big Green isn't earning their pay,
but we knew that already.Since this is a family BB,I won't say what I think that Remington Spokesperson is talking out of....

UK2TX, length is oft debated, but a good one seems to be 1 1/2-2 inches.Polishing is essential, concentricity is crucial, it takes the right jig and tools to do it correctly.

TTBOMK, the only breechloading shotguns EVER made w/o forcing cones were a few old Brit Waterfowling shotguns with no chambers per se, and used only with very thin, special brass cases carefully handloaded. Very rare, and modern loads seem to surpass their performance, good for the time.

One thing about long cones, and I'm an enthusiastic user of same. While an excellent mod with little/if any downside, they're not mandatory for good performance.Wildeyed but semi educated guess, they cut recoil 3%, and improve patterns by maybe 5-10%.

DML · August 10, 2001, 03:38 AM

All 870's and other modern shotguns have forcing cones. The dufuss at Remington probably isn't quite sure from which end the shot load exits. He or she probably does know which end of a golf club to hang on to. Duh, welcome to Remington Country.

To prove the above statement, take a look through the chamber end of a new Police Magnum barrel. They have reamed the poor thing to oblivion. The forcing cone reaches half way up the barrel. (OK, I exaggerated a bit) Why would they do this if it doesn't enhance the performance?
Could it be because Vang Comp and other custom gunsmiths have been doing it for years?

Dave McC · August 10, 2001, 06:56 AM

Nash Buckingham was doing experiments with long forcing cones back in the 20s and 30s, and mentions he wasn't the first to do so.

As to why Big Green hasn't caught on to a longer cone, despite the myriad reports of improvement, I chalk it up to inertia and reactionary thinking.

I am pleased that at least some 870s are getting good cones, maybe it'll spread....

K80Geoff · August 10, 2001, 09:23 AM

Doh!! I looked down all four of my 870 barrels, they all have forcing cones

The forcing cone is the part of the barrel that is always the dirtiest and most difficult to get clean. If you look down the barrel from the breech end while holding it up to a light source the forcing cone is the dark area immediately forward of the chamber. It appears to be a dark band because of all the plastic fouling that builds up there

Poor Remington, what IS happening to them?

Geoff Ross

UK2TX · August 13, 2001, 01:09 PM

The latest responce from Remington :

When our engineering department designs any particular model, all variables or enhancements are taken into consideration.

In our Model 870, the initial design of a barrel is tapered as in a forcing cone design. We found that a "lengthened forcing cone" such as is featured on sporting clay models did not improve accuracy or performance. As there was not a significant factor with this feature, we did not include the feature.

Have a good day!

Romulus · August 13, 2001, 01:48 PM

What kind of an answer is that? The "initial design" of an 870? Did you tell them you had an "initial" model? Who are these dolts?

Redirect, Your Honor...Remington: do you ream forcing cones in your 870 barrels? A simple yes or no will do...

August 8, 2001, 02:10 PM	#1
UK2TX Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Austin,TX Posts: 274	Does a Remington 870 Express have a forcing cone? Hello Chaps, I recently asked Remington to let me know what the standard length of a forcing cone was on a 870 and rec'ed the following reply: -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 1:31 PM To: <snip> Subject: What is the standard length of ... [Incident:remington 010802-000035] Recently you requested personal assistance from our on-line support center. Below is a summary of your request and our response. If we do not hear from you within 48 hours we will assume your issue has been resolved. Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you. Subject --------------------------------------------------------------- What is the standard length of the forcing code on a 26" barrel for a Remingt... Suggested Answer --------------------------------------------------------------- At 08/08/2001 02:09 PM we wrote - Dear <snip>: Welcome to Remington Country! Forcing cones are featured on our sporting models. Our Model 870 Express is a field grade model shotgun. A forcing cone will not greatly improve or enhance the performance of a field model shotgun. Thank you for your interest in Remington products. Does anyone know if this is actually correct and if so why? Regards, UK2TX

August 8, 2001, 03:41 PM	#2
E. BeauBeaux Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2000 Location: MS, CSA Posts: 377	It's my understanding that forcing cones have not changed. When the new plastic shell's came out they used the same forcing cone as before even though more is needed for the plastic. If someone knows different please post and I'll admit being wrong. If the barrel on the Express is not too thin, extending the forcing cone will help some with recoil and improve the pattern a little. __________________ "While you are resting, someone somewhere is training and when you meet him, you will lose." --Unknown

August 8, 2001, 06:25 PM	#5
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Somebody at Big Green isn't earning their pay, but we knew that already.Since this is a family BB,I won't say what I think that Remington Spokesperson is talking out of.... UK2TX, length is oft debated, but a good one seems to be 1 1/2-2 inches.Polishing is essential, concentricity is crucial, it takes the right jig and tools to do it correctly. TTBOMK, the only breechloading shotguns EVER made w/o forcing cones were a few old Brit Waterfowling shotguns with no chambers per se, and used only with very thin, special brass cases carefully handloaded. Very rare, and modern loads seem to surpass their performance, good for the time. One thing about long cones, and I'm an enthusiastic user of same. While an excellent mod with little/if any downside, they're not mandatory for good performance.Wildeyed but semi educated guess, they cut recoil 3%, and improve patterns by maybe 5-10%. Last edited by Dave McC; August 9, 2001 at 03:57 AM.

August 10, 2001, 03:38 AM	#6
DML Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2000 Location: Aridzona Posts: 257	All 870's and other modern shotguns have forcing cones. The dufuss at Remington probably isn't quite sure from which end the shot load exits. He or she probably does know which end of a golf club to hang on to. Duh, welcome to Remington Country. To prove the above statement, take a look through the chamber end of a new Police Magnum barrel. They have reamed the poor thing to oblivion. The forcing cone reaches half way up the barrel. (OK, I exaggerated a bit) Why would they do this if it doesn't enhance the performance? Could it be because Vang Comp and other custom gunsmiths have been doing it for years? __________________ Experience is what you get when you were expecting something else.

August 10, 2001, 09:23 AM	#8
K80Geoff Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 1998 Location: NE Pennsylvania Posts: 3,639	Doh!! I looked down all four of my 870 barrels, they all have forcing cones The forcing cone is the part of the barrel that is always the dirtiest and most difficult to get clean. If you look down the barrel from the breech end while holding it up to a light source the forcing cone is the dark area immediately forward of the chamber. It appears to be a dark band because of all the plastic fouling that builds up there Poor Remington, what IS happening to them? Geoff Ross __________________ I am no longer a member of this forum. Bye!

August 8, 2001, 05:09 PM	#3
PJR Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2000 Posts: 1,127	Hmmmm.. No forcing cone at all????? No improvement on a field grade model but they have them on sporting guns???? The 870 does have a forcing cone but a very short one. The answer about the field and sporting guns is contradictory and frankly ridiculous. There is plenty of barrel to extend should one desire. That's how Vang makes his living. Maybe Big Green needs a little more knowledge in the answer department. Sheesh.

August 8, 2001, 05:18 PM	#4
UK2TX Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Austin,TX Posts: 274	I too cannot believe the answer received from Remington, hence my post. I've already asked them to explain themselves and will post their response ( usually takes a week ). FWIW my reason for asking the question was to establish how much extra I needed to ream in. Regards, UK2TX

August 10, 2001, 06:56 AM	#7
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Nash Buckingham was doing experiments with long forcing cones back in the 20s and 30s, and mentions he wasn't the first to do so. As to why Big Green hasn't caught on to a longer cone, despite the myriad reports of improvement, I chalk it up to inertia and reactionary thinking. I am pleased that at least some 870s are getting good cones, maybe it'll spread....

August 13, 2001, 01:09 PM	#9
UK2TX Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Austin,TX Posts: 274	The latest responce from Remington : When our engineering department designs any particular model, all variables or enhancements are taken into consideration. In our Model 870, the initial design of a barrel is tapered as in a forcing cone design. We found that a "lengthened forcing cone" such as is featured on sporting clay models did not improve accuracy or performance. As there was not a significant factor with this feature, we did not include the feature. Have a good day!

August 13, 2001, 01:48 PM	#10
Romulus Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2001 Location: Kettle Moraine country Posts: 897	What kind of an answer is that? The "initial design" of an 870? Did you tell them you had an "initial" model? Who are these dolts? Redirect, Your Honor...Remington: do you ream forcing cones in your 870 barrels? A simple yes or no will do... __________________ I knew Thomas Jefferson, he was a friend of mine...Governor Clinton, you're no Thomas Jefferson Ti faccio vedere come muore un italiano