full auto sten

dtarvin · April 8, 2009, 01:14 AM

hey, i hope im not incriminating myself here, but im looking for advice, i recently bought a parts kit for a sten mark 5, wellllll its full auto and i dont know what to do with it. I have a receiver and all the parts, but its not assembled... i thought spur of the moment it would be a cool investment and since its so easy to build it must be easy to make semi auto and then be able to sell it... nope. because after research the gov no matter what still think mine is illegal and always will be. so now im stuck, what should i do with all of this... i would love to pay the 200 dollar tax and just legalize it but just like other things that should be legalized in this country, its not possible... sooo what are my options?

David Hineline · April 8, 2009, 03:58 AM

If by receiver you mean a blank round tube that is not cut out yet, then that is nothing and the Sten parts kit is just spare parts for a sten, not regulated.

If you have a receiver that is cut out and ready to go once the parts kit is installed then you should cut it to bits, smash it and get rid of it. Sell the parts kit to someone who can legally use it. Or turn the entire project over to the ATF or local police.

Building a semi auto Sten is quite a project, nicer guns can be bought cheaper ready to go.

dtarvin · April 8, 2009, 01:15 PM

a friend of mine told me that if i were to purchase a registered receiver, it would be alright.. is that true? if so, where would i go about purchasing one.. plus id have to pay the 200 dollar tax and all that.

James K · April 8, 2009, 01:41 PM

A registered receiver for a STEN will cost as much as a STEN because it will BE a STEN. I don't know of anyone selling tranferrable STEN receivers.

If you have an unregistered STEN receiver that has not been demiled in accordance with BATFE rules, you are in violation of federal law. Depending on how you got it, you might be able to surrender ("abandon" is the legal term) to BATFE without consequences, but that is at THEIR discretion, not yours. Technically, even disposing of the receiver (cutting up, throwing in ocean) is a violation, since it is concealing evidence of a felony - having the receiver in the first place. You can't just deactivate it, because deactivated guns also have to be registered.

Anyway, unless the receiver was registered prior to 1986, you cannot now register it and there is no legal way you can keep it.

If in doubt, consult an attorney.

Jim

Dustin0 · April 8, 2009, 03:15 PM

you need a pre 1986 receiver pay the 200 bucks to the AFK and wait forever to get then you can build the gun.

Now with that said. I dont know where you can get the receiver without paying 4000 to 5000 for it. You can buy complete guns for that price.

JFettig · April 8, 2009, 03:37 PM

You have a parts kit not a sten, is that correct? All of the demilled machine guns have their receivers cut up and FA parts are included usually, you must discard them or modify them into semi.

If what you have is a sten receiver that you can put it together and make it work, then thats different.

Jon

dtarvin · April 9, 2009, 12:02 AM

what i have is a box full of parts, I don't have the receiver, what id like to do in a perfect world, since it is a mark 5 parts kit with the wooden hand grip and wooden butt stock with the brass plate, (those are worth a lot more) is eventually make it legal. I sent a letter to the ATF asking for information about a class three (all i told them was that I'm aspiring for the FFL and class three so i can buy and sell guns to make money how do i obtain it where do i go.... i left out the and i happen to have a full auto parts kit, part) i know it will take a while to even get the license (I'm sure i would be accepted, ive never even had a traffic ticket since i was 16) But once the paper work is done Id like to be able to sell it as a sten and not a box of parts. i saw online some information about a class 3 manufacturing license, which enables companies to build suppressors and what not, a few friends of mine own metal fabrication shops, in which i could use such a license, but i dont know anything about obtaining that license either.... does anyone have any information about that?

ihctractor · April 9, 2009, 06:21 AM

I went through this a few years ago with the ATF. You cannot build a full auto Sten -PERIOD! If it wasn't a registered gun before 1986 it does not and cannot exist regardless of licenses or how it was obtained.
I had a MK3 parts kit, a new "blank" receiver tube, blueprints and instructions. The ATF informed me that just the possession of those items may be illegal because together they had the capability of being a machine gun.

I ended up machining my receiver to 80% so that it was not quite a received yet

, then I machined a dummy barrel that had no chamber and welded it in the receiver. I also machined a new bolt from aluminum with no firing pin. Once the gun was assembled I had a "Dummy" gun or stage prop that looked real, went through its functions and could be field stripped like the real thing but couldn't fire and was perfectly legal. Then I sold it and the original barrel and bolt on eBay, made enough to be worth while and avoided all the hassle of dealing with the ATF

Of course now eBay won't allow this stuff on their commie bastard run site anymore!

James K · April 9, 2009, 06:23 PM

Hi, dtarvin,

A licensed manufacturer with an SOT tax stamp (Class III manufacturer) can make a machinegun. He just cannot sell it to anyone except a Class III dealer or a government entity (police/military). No machineguns can be sold to the general public unless they were registered prior to 1986. Since your machinegun obviously was not registered prior to 1986, there is no way you can own it as an individual.

Even if you pay a thousand dollars for the SOT and become a manufacturer, you can keep any guns you make only as long as you keep the license; if you give up or lose the license, you have to sell or surrender any guns you made under the license, since they can't be transferred to an individual (you).

The simple fact is that you want an ideal world, where you can make and sell machineguns without any trouble. That is not going to happen anywhere in the world today. So telling us what you want to do isn't going to help. You may not do legally what you want to do, and trying to do it anyway could get you a long prison term. And that, folks, is no one's idea of fun.

Jim

David Hineline · April 9, 2009, 08:10 PM

So in your first post you have a receiver and all the parts, in the last post you have a box of parts and no receiver.

The first step if you are going to be in the business is find out if your location is zoned for firearms manufacture. Unless you can get past your local zoning requirements you are done, no point in wasting any brain cells on projects and the future untill you contact your zoning board or commision and find that out.

dtarvin · April 10, 2009, 06:59 PM

i just moved here and i really dont know any of the zoning laws. and to clarify i have a metal tube but its not quite a receiver, i was told it was a receiver but needs to have a machine shop drill holes or what not into it. but im not going to touch it since i know thats a no no. i dont even know where to get the zoning law information, ill see what the local outdoor sports place has to say since he sells full auto FN's he should know something about acquiring license's and what not. thanks for the information guys.

David Hineline · April 10, 2009, 09:50 PM

If your goal is just to have a Sten machinegun, it would be much cheaper to just buy one for I guess between 5-7K dollars than to mess with setting up a business to possess a LE Sten which would be worth maybe $250.

Starvingboy · April 14, 2009, 07:50 PM

Well, as everyone said, you can't build a full auto anything.

That being said, semi-auto is just fine. Semi Stens are not too bad, indianapoliceordinance has the best stuff I've been able to find. I have a semi Browning .30 which is a load of fun, and a MG42 kit waiting in the wings, as well as a sten kit that I have never got around to building. Read up on compliance parts, and make sure the gun is either a pistol, or has a barrel over 16 inches.

Oh, and there are a few web sites devoted to the home builder. I prefer the weaponsguild, though they have the annoying "Log in to view anything".

David Hineline · April 14, 2009, 10:41 PM

Sten kits are for machineguns, to build a semi auto Sten one has to re-design the bolt and fire control componants so they do not fire from open bolt configuration.

Much easier just to buy a 9mm rifle of some type. If you gotta buy a Sten there are places that have done closed bolt semi conversions.

Starvingboy · April 16, 2009, 11:07 AM

Easier to buy a 9mm rifle, I agree, but where is the fun in that? There is something neat about building your own. I am proud of my 1919a4, not so much of my hi-point carbine (which is still a good gun in my opinion). If you get bit by the homebuilt bug, there are a lot of resources available. That's all I was trying to pass on. For sten guns in particular, you buy all the parts you need "Off the shelf". Then all you need is a welder, drill press, and a smattering of skill.

aroundlsu · April 16, 2009, 11:32 AM

Your best bet is to delete your user account and this thread then dump everything in a very deep lake. The ATF actively reads gun forums and there is a strong possibility they are reading this thread.

I would be prepared to have my door smashed in while guys yell "SEARCH WARRANT" if I were you.

dtarvin · April 17, 2009, 01:10 AM

why should i be dumping things into a lake, what i own sells on gun broker for 200 dollars, and doesnt even need to be shipped to an FFL.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=127163785

thats basically what i own. So if they have a search warrant to look for that then i'd happily show it to them

dtarvin · April 17, 2009, 01:12 AM

haha you say they are going to kick in my door.. well then who ever might be reading it just knock i'll open the door.

J.Smith · April 19, 2009, 01:30 PM

Parts kit yes, but parts kit plus a "receiver" equals long time being bubbas wife in prison.

April 8, 2009, 01:14 AM	#1
dtarvin Junior Member Join Date: April 16, 2008 Posts: 8	full auto sten hey, i hope im not incriminating myself here, but im looking for advice, i recently bought a parts kit for a sten mark 5, wellllll its full auto and i dont know what to do with it. I have a receiver and all the parts, but its not assembled... i thought spur of the moment it would be a cool investment and since its so easy to build it must be easy to make semi auto and then be able to sell it... nope. because after research the gov no matter what still think mine is illegal and always will be. so now im stuck, what should i do with all of this... i would love to pay the 200 dollar tax and just legalize it but just like other things that should be legalized in this country, its not possible... sooo what are my options?

April 9, 2009, 06:21 AM	#8
ihctractor Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 78	I went through this a few years ago with the ATF. You cannot build a full auto Sten -PERIOD! If it wasn't a registered gun before 1986 it does not and cannot exist regardless of licenses or how it was obtained. I had a MK3 parts kit, a new "blank" receiver tube, blueprints and instructions. The ATF informed me that just the possession of those items may be illegal because together they had the capability of being a machine gun. I ended up machining my receiver to 80% so that it was not quite a received yet, then I machined a dummy barrel that had no chamber and welded it in the receiver. I also machined a new bolt from aluminum with no firing pin. Once the gun was assembled I had a "Dummy" gun or stage prop that looked real, went through its functions and could be field stripped like the real thing but couldn't fire and was perfectly legal. Then I sold it and the original barrel and bolt on eBay, made enough to be worth while and avoided all the hassle of dealing with the ATF Of course now eBay won't allow this stuff on their commie bastard run site anymore!

April 14, 2009, 10:41 PM	#14
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	Except Sten kits are for machineguns, to build a semi auto Sten one has to re-design the bolt and fire control componants so they do not fire from open bolt configuration. Much easier just to buy a 9mm rifle of some type. If you gotta buy a Sten there are places that have done closed bolt semi conversions.

April 8, 2009, 03:58 AM	#2
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	If by receiver you mean a blank round tube that is not cut out yet, then that is nothing and the Sten parts kit is just spare parts for a sten, not regulated. If you have a receiver that is cut out and ready to go once the parts kit is installed then you should cut it to bits, smash it and get rid of it. Sell the parts kit to someone who can legally use it. Or turn the entire project over to the ATF or local police. Building a semi auto Sten is quite a project, nicer guns can be bought cheaper ready to go.

April 8, 2009, 01:15 PM	#3
dtarvin Junior Member Join Date: April 16, 2008 Posts: 8	a friend of mine told me that if i were to purchase a registered receiver, it would be alright.. is that true? if so, where would i go about purchasing one.. plus id have to pay the 200 dollar tax and all that.

April 8, 2009, 01:41 PM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	A registered receiver for a STEN will cost as much as a STEN because it will BE a STEN. I don't know of anyone selling tranferrable STEN receivers. If you have an unregistered STEN receiver that has not been demiled in accordance with BATFE rules, you are in violation of federal law. Depending on how you got it, you might be able to surrender ("abandon" is the legal term) to BATFE without consequences, but that is at THEIR discretion, not yours. Technically, even disposing of the receiver (cutting up, throwing in ocean) is a violation, since it is concealing evidence of a felony - having the receiver in the first place. You can't just deactivate it, because deactivated guns also have to be registered. Anyway, unless the receiver was registered prior to 1986, you cannot now register it and there is no legal way you can keep it. If in doubt, consult an attorney. Jim

April 8, 2009, 03:15 PM	#5
Dustin0 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2008 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 701	you need a pre 1986 receiver pay the 200 bucks to the AFK and wait forever to get then you can build the gun. Now with that said. I dont know where you can get the receiver without paying 4000 to 5000 for it. You can buy complete guns for that price.

April 8, 2009, 03:37 PM	#6
JFettig Junior Member Join Date: December 7, 2008 Posts: 5	You have a parts kit not a sten, is that correct? All of the demilled machine guns have their receivers cut up and FA parts are included usually, you must discard them or modify them into semi. If what you have is a sten receiver that you can put it together and make it work, then thats different. Jon

April 9, 2009, 12:02 AM	#7
dtarvin Junior Member Join Date: April 16, 2008 Posts: 8	what i have is a box full of parts, I don't have the receiver, what id like to do in a perfect world, since it is a mark 5 parts kit with the wooden hand grip and wooden butt stock with the brass plate, (those are worth a lot more) is eventually make it legal. I sent a letter to the ATF asking for information about a class three (all i told them was that I'm aspiring for the FFL and class three so i can buy and sell guns to make money how do i obtain it where do i go.... i left out the and i happen to have a full auto parts kit, part) i know it will take a while to even get the license (I'm sure i would be accepted, ive never even had a traffic ticket since i was 16) But once the paper work is done Id like to be able to sell it as a sten and not a box of parts. i saw online some information about a class 3 manufacturing license, which enables companies to build suppressors and what not, a few friends of mine own metal fabrication shops, in which i could use such a license, but i dont know anything about obtaining that license either.... does anyone have any information about that?

April 9, 2009, 06:23 PM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, dtarvin, A licensed manufacturer with an SOT tax stamp (Class III manufacturer) can make a machinegun. He just cannot sell it to anyone except a Class III dealer or a government entity (police/military). No machineguns can be sold to the general public unless they were registered prior to 1986. Since your machinegun obviously was not registered prior to 1986, there is no way you can own it as an individual. Even if you pay a thousand dollars for the SOT and become a manufacturer, you can keep any guns you make only as long as you keep the license; if you give up or lose the license, you have to sell or surrender any guns you made under the license, since they can't be transferred to an individual (you). The simple fact is that you want an ideal world, where you can make and sell machineguns without any trouble. That is not going to happen anywhere in the world today. So telling us what you want to do isn't going to help. You may not do legally what you want to do, and trying to do it anyway could get you a long prison term. And that, folks, is no one's idea of fun. Jim

April 9, 2009, 08:10 PM	#10
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	So in your first post you have a receiver and all the parts, in the last post you have a box of parts and no receiver. The first step if you are going to be in the business is find out if your location is zoned for firearms manufacture. Unless you can get past your local zoning requirements you are done, no point in wasting any brain cells on projects and the future untill you contact your zoning board or commision and find that out.

April 10, 2009, 06:59 PM	#11
dtarvin Junior Member Join Date: April 16, 2008 Posts: 8	i just moved here and i really dont know any of the zoning laws. and to clarify i have a metal tube but its not quite a receiver, i was told it was a receiver but needs to have a machine shop drill holes or what not into it. but im not going to touch it since i know thats a no no. i dont even know where to get the zoning law information, ill see what the local outdoor sports place has to say since he sells full auto FN's he should know something about acquiring license's and what not. thanks for the information guys.

April 10, 2009, 09:50 PM	#12
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	If your goal is just to have a Sten machinegun, it would be much cheaper to just buy one for I guess between 5-7K dollars than to mess with setting up a business to possess a LE Sten which would be worth maybe $250.

April 14, 2009, 07:50 PM	#13
Starvingboy Member Join Date: September 17, 2008 Posts: 74	Well, as everyone said, you can't build a full auto anything. That being said, semi-auto is just fine. Semi Stens are not too bad, indianapoliceordinance has the best stuff I've been able to find. I have a semi Browning .30 which is a load of fun, and a MG42 kit waiting in the wings, as well as a sten kit that I have never got around to building. Read up on compliance parts, and make sure the gun is either a pistol, or has a barrel over 16 inches. Oh, and there are a few web sites devoted to the home builder. I prefer the weaponsguild, though they have the annoying "Log in to view anything".

April 16, 2009, 11:07 AM	#15
Starvingboy Member Join Date: September 17, 2008 Posts: 74	Easier to buy a 9mm rifle, I agree, but where is the fun in that? There is something neat about building your own. I am proud of my 1919a4, not so much of my hi-point carbine (which is still a good gun in my opinion). If you get bit by the homebuilt bug, there are a lot of resources available. That's all I was trying to pass on. For sten guns in particular, you buy all the parts you need "Off the shelf". Then all you need is a welder, drill press, and a smattering of skill.

April 16, 2009, 11:32 AM	#16
aroundlsu Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 156	Your best bet is to delete your user account and this thread then dump everything in a very deep lake. The ATF actively reads gun forums and there is a strong possibility they are reading this thread. I would be prepared to have my door smashed in while guys yell "SEARCH WARRANT" if I were you.

April 17, 2009, 01:10 AM	#17
dtarvin Junior Member Join Date: April 16, 2008 Posts: 8	why should i be dumping things into a lake, what i own sells on gun broker for 200 dollars, and doesnt even need to be shipped to an FFL. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=127163785 thats basically what i own. So if they have a search warrant to look for that then i'd happily show it to them

April 17, 2009, 01:12 AM	#18
dtarvin Junior Member Join Date: April 16, 2008 Posts: 8	haha you say they are going to kick in my door.. well then who ever might be reading it just knock i'll open the door.

April 19, 2009, 01:30 PM	#19
J.Smith Senior Member Join Date: May 7, 2008 Location: Hampton Roads,VA / Wise Co. VA Posts: 157	Parts kit yes, but parts kit plus a "receiver" equals long time being bubbas wife in prison.