Beginner's Questions

Cult .44 · February 9, 2009, 07:57 PM

I'm just dipping my toes into hand loading with the venerable (and cheap) Classic Lee Loader (the one that offers many hours of therapeutic pounding). Anyway, I've been practicing and I'm about ready to load live rounds (.44 magnum). However I have a few of questions ...

1. I've got some 240 gr SJSP bullets. I intend to use the load recommended for 240 gr "jacketed." Are SJSP bullets considered "jacketed" for this purpose? I would think so but I'd like to be sure.

2. Similar question regarding Hornady cast LSWC bullets. Do I follow the load data card's recommendations for "lead" bullets?

3. And, probably most importantly, Lee's card says to use large pistol primers. However, all I could find were magnum large pistol primers (CCI 350). Am I okay with these? A guy at one of the stores said I had no worries. I figure I'm okay because Lee's starting loads appear to be conservative. But maybe I should back off 10% or something. The recommended load for a 240 gr jacketed bullet is 12.1 grains of IMR 800X which seems to be a relatively slow powder for pistol cartridges.

SL1 · February 9, 2009, 08:20 PM

One point to consider is that the SJSP bullets are NOT the same as JSPs. THe SJSPs are crimped over the front edge of the semi-jacket, which puts them deeper in the case than a JSP that is crimped in its cannelure. That means less space for the power, and thus smaller maximum loads.

Some of the old Speer manuals listed the same max loads for the SJSPs as their JSP and JHP bullets. I and some others have found some of those loads to be too hot.

However, I agree that Lee's starting loads should be OK. Just don't expect to work-up all the way to max loads in old manuals for other jacket bullet types.

SL1

Cult .44 · February 10, 2009, 10:07 PM

Thanks for the heads up. I think the sensible thing to do is lighten up the load a smidge and go from there.

ryalred · February 11, 2009, 11:44 AM

If the data calls for a standard primer, but you use a magnum primer, reduce loads by 10% and work up, watching for pressure signs. Good luck!

Cult .44 · February 12, 2009, 12:22 AM

Will do.

Firing that first hand loaded round ought to be, ulp, exciting.

RidgwayCO · February 12, 2009, 10:01 AM

If I understand you correctly, you've got some Remington semi-jacketed hollow point bullets (SJHP) and some Hornady swaged lead semi-wadcutter bullets (SWC). You don't have the Speer half-jacketed bullets.

If this is the case, you can use regular jhp data for the Remingtons. However, I wouldn't push the swaged lead bullets faster than about 1050 fps (subsonic) to avoid barrel leading.

The Speer half-jacketed bullets require their own loading data from the Speer manual.

SL1 · February 12, 2009, 07:50 PM

Man, this is where pictures are worth so many words.

The old-style straight partial jacket with semiwadcutter-shaped exposed lead nose bullets have been made by several manuafacturers over the years and called by many names, including just "jacketed" as well as "semi-jacket" "half jacket" and "three-quarter jacket." They have come in hollow-point and not.

Now I see that Remington's "semijacketed" bullets look exactly like Speer's very old "jacketed" bullet design. That is, they look like a regular JSP/SHP shape with the jacket ending just after it starts to bend into the nose, leaving a lot of lead exposed, but not having a semiwadcutter shape. There is a cannelure in the jacket, and they do not seat any deeper than a regular "jacketed" bullet, UNLIKE the Speer wadcutter shaped things.

I guess the marketing people have started recycling the terms too soon for us older guys that still haven't lost our memories.

SL1

Cult .44 · February 12, 2009, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Remington semi-jacketed hollow point bullets (SJHP)

Magtech actually and soft point but similar ...

http://www.magtechammunition.com/sto...details586.php

Only about 2-3mm of lead is exposed. Lee's card says a starting load of 12.1 grains of IMR 800x which is supposed to push a "jacketed" 240 gr bullet to 1209 fps. I loaded five with 11.2 grains of 800x as my starting point, accounting for the magnum primers. I figure that should be pretty safe in a Super Blackhawk. I'll fire one at a time and inspect for pressure signs for each one.

Quote:

I wouldn't push the swaged lead bullets faster than about 1050 fps (subsonic) to avoid barrel leading.

Yeah, I picked up a booklet that had Hornady's load data for that and their max load pushes them 1000 fps. I'm going to hold off until I can get some regular large pistol primers and different powder (probably Unique) before I start loading the LSWCs.

My goal is to work up two basic loads. A moderate to stout load for the SJSPs (one that says, Hello, I'm a .44 magnum). And a lower-recoil load with the LSWCs. I'd like both to cycle and shoot well through my Marlin levergun so I'm paying clsoe attention to overall case length, which I suppose I should do in any event.

warnerwh · February 13, 2009, 12:23 AM

Be careful on the semi wad cutters you buy. Some will leave alot more lead in your barrel than others. If your accuracy goes down hill look in your barrel. The grooves could be full of lead.

The fun part is getting it out. The only lead bullet I use these days are from Lasercast. My load is only pushing a .429 bullet at about 900fps. The 1050fps mentioned above I'd say are the very max you'd want to push a lead bullet, at least in my experience.

Many people like to buy copper clad bullets. They're inexpensive and don't lead your barrel much at all. I just pay the extra money for jacketed bullets now. Lead bullets can be a real pain to use imo.

mikld · February 13, 2009, 03:53 PM

If you get into shooting lead bullets you should slug your bore (drive a soft lead plug down your bore to determin the exact size) then load bullets .001" .002" larger than the bore. Beartooth, Montana Bullets, and a host of others will sell you good alloy bullets of sizes to fit your bore. I would suggest you stick with jacketed bullets for now to get a handle on the reloading process, step by step. I started with a Lee Loader and got some very good reloads using it.

Go slow, be safe and ENJOY.

Cult .44 · February 15, 2009, 12:45 AM

Fired my first reloads today and I'm still in one piece. Yee haw!

Here's what they were ...
-- .44 Remington magnum Magtech brass
-- Magtech 240 gr (.430 dia) SJSP bullets
-- 11.2 grains IMR 800x powder
-- CCI 350 primer
(Fired from a 5.5" barrel Ruger Super Blackhawk)

They went boom and the bullets hit paper. Although the bangs were somewhat inconsistent. Compared to Magtech's factory ammo using the same bullet, my rounds seemed about on par in terms of recoil and loudness but a couple were noticeably stronger. My best guess is too much crimp. I know .44 magnums should have a good crimp but I may have overdone it on a couple.

Pressure signs looked okay. Primers were a little flattened but similar to what happens with the factory ammo (no cratering, piercing or soot seepage). Cases expanded a little but still about the same as factory ammo (the expansion seemed a little bit more toward the base of the case then usual).

I did find some large pistol primers so now I can follow the published data exactly.

February 9, 2009, 07:57 PM	#1
Cult .44 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2009 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 110	Beginner's Questions I'm just dipping my toes into hand loading with the venerable (and cheap) Classic Lee Loader (the one that offers many hours of therapeutic pounding). Anyway, I've been practicing and I'm about ready to load live rounds (.44 magnum). However I have a few of questions ... 1. I've got some 240 gr SJSP bullets. I intend to use the load recommended for 240 gr "jacketed." Are SJSP bullets considered "jacketed" for this purpose? I would think so but I'd like to be sure. 2. Similar question regarding Hornady cast LSWC bullets. Do I follow the load data card's recommendations for "lead" bullets? 3. And, probably most importantly, Lee's card says to use large pistol primers. However, all I could find were magnum large pistol primers (CCI 350). Am I okay with these? A guy at one of the stores said I had no worries. I figure I'm okay because Lee's starting loads appear to be conservative. But maybe I should back off 10% or something. The recommended load for a 240 gr jacketed bullet is 12.1 grains of IMR 800X which seems to be a relatively slow powder for pistol cartridges.

February 11, 2009, 11:44 AM	#4
ryalred Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2008 Location: SE Oklahoma Posts: 491	If the data calls for a standard primer, but you use a magnum primer, reduce loads by 10% and work up, watching for pressure signs. Good luck! __________________ ryalred rifle & muzzleloader -- exhilarating bowhunting -- obsession reloading -- addicted

February 9, 2009, 08:20 PM	#2
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	One point to consider is that the SJSP bullets are NOT the same as JSPs. THe SJSPs are crimped over the front edge of the semi-jacket, which puts them deeper in the case than a JSP that is crimped in its cannelure. That means less space for the power, and thus smaller maximum loads. Some of the old Speer manuals listed the same max loads for the SJSPs as their JSP and JHP bullets. I and some others have found some of those loads to be too hot. However, I agree that Lee's starting loads should be OK. Just don't expect to work-up all the way to max loads in old manuals for other jacket bullet types. SL1

February 10, 2009, 10:07 PM	#3
Cult .44 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2009 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 110	Thanks for the heads up. I think the sensible thing to do is lighten up the load a smidge and go from there.

February 12, 2009, 12:22 AM	#5
Cult .44 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2009 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 110	Will do. Firing that first hand loaded round ought to be, ulp, exciting.

February 12, 2009, 10:01 AM	#6
RidgwayCO Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2008 Location: Western Colorado Posts: 244	If I understand you correctly, you've got some Remington semi-jacketed hollow point bullets (SJHP) and some Hornady swaged lead semi-wadcutter bullets (SWC). You don't have the Speer half-jacketed bullets. If this is the case, you can use regular jhp data for the Remingtons. However, I wouldn't push the swaged lead bullets faster than about 1050 fps (subsonic) to avoid barrel leading. The Speer half-jacketed bullets require their own loading data from the Speer manual.

February 12, 2009, 07:50 PM	#7
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	Man, this is where pictures are worth so many words. The old-style straight partial jacket with semiwadcutter-shaped exposed lead nose bullets have been made by several manuafacturers over the years and called by many names, including just "jacketed" as well as "semi-jacket" "half jacket" and "three-quarter jacket." They have come in hollow-point and not. Now I see that Remington's "semijacketed" bullets look exactly like Speer's very old "jacketed" bullet design. That is, they look like a regular JSP/SHP shape with the jacket ending just after it starts to bend into the nose, leaving a lot of lead exposed, but not having a semiwadcutter shape. There is a cannelure in the jacket, and they do not seat any deeper than a regular "jacketed" bullet, UNLIKE the Speer wadcutter shaped things. I guess the marketing people have started recycling the terms too soon for us older guys that still haven't lost our memories. SL1

February 13, 2009, 12:23 AM	#9
warnerwh Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2009 Posts: 329	Be careful on the semi wad cutters you buy. Some will leave alot more lead in your barrel than others. If your accuracy goes down hill look in your barrel. The grooves could be full of lead. The fun part is getting it out. The only lead bullet I use these days are from Lasercast. My load is only pushing a .429 bullet at about 900fps. The 1050fps mentioned above I'd say are the very max you'd want to push a lead bullet, at least in my experience. Many people like to buy copper clad bullets. They're inexpensive and don't lead your barrel much at all. I just pay the extra money for jacketed bullets now. Lead bullets can be a real pain to use imo.

February 13, 2009, 03:53 PM	#10
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	If you get into shooting lead bullets you should slug your bore (drive a soft lead plug down your bore to determin the exact size) then load bullets .001" .002" larger than the bore. Beartooth, Montana Bullets, and a host of others will sell you good alloy bullets of sizes to fit your bore. I would suggest you stick with jacketed bullets for now to get a handle on the reloading process, step by step. I started with a Lee Loader and got some very good reloads using it. Go slow, be safe and ENJOY.

February 15, 2009, 12:45 AM	#11
Cult .44 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2009 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 110	Fired my first reloads today and I'm still in one piece. Yee haw! Here's what they were ... -- .44 Remington magnum Magtech brass -- Magtech 240 gr (.430 dia) SJSP bullets -- 11.2 grains IMR 800x powder -- CCI 350 primer (Fired from a 5.5" barrel Ruger Super Blackhawk) They went boom and the bullets hit paper. Although the bangs were somewhat inconsistent. Compared to Magtech's factory ammo using the same bullet, my rounds seemed about on par in terms of recoil and loudness but a couple were noticeably stronger. My best guess is too much crimp. I know .44 magnums should have a good crimp but I may have overdone it on a couple. Pressure signs looked okay. Primers were a little flattened but similar to what happens with the factory ammo (no cratering, piercing or soot seepage). Cases expanded a little but still about the same as factory ammo (the expansion seemed a little bit more toward the base of the case then usual). I did find some large pistol primers so now I can follow the published data exactly.