Wheeler Engineering Professional Reticle Leveling System - Anybody use one?

aarondhgraham · October 2, 2020, 10:06 AM

Wheeler Engineering Professional Reticle Leveling System - Anybody use one?

I played Musical Scopes with nine of my rifles a few weeks back,,,
Normally I take my scoped rifles to The Evil Pawn Shop Guy,,,
He only charges $10.00 to level & bore sight a gun.

But I'm thinking of buying this instead so I can do it myself.

Is this a worthwhile product?

Wheeler Engineering Professional Reticle Leveling System

Aarond

.

Nathan · October 2, 2020, 10:11 AM

Yes. Works good.

aarondhgraham · October 2, 2020, 10:18 AM

I appreciate the response.

Aarond

.

Double K · October 2, 2020, 10:27 AM

That system is reliant on the reticle being in perfect alignment with the turrets, pretty common for them to be slightly misaligned.

Pahoo · October 2, 2020, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Wheeler Engineering Professional Reticle Leveling System - Anybody use one?

A past hunting buddy and now bench-shooter, demonstrated it and swears but it. Using his rifle, I compared it to the old-fashion method and "I" would say that his was off, just a little. You really don't have to buy one to get a quality mount but if one finds it easier to use and keep the confidence, why not. ......

I do not level the scope to the rifle but instead, level the reticles to the rifle. I basically use two small bubble levels and plumb-bob to set up. .....

Be Safe !!!

aarondhgraham · October 2, 2020, 02:26 PM

Gentlemen,,,
Thanks for the replies.

As usual though I'm getting ratings from wonderful to worthless,,,
This is across three forums I have this posted to.

There doesn't seem to be a solid consensus.

So I did what I should have done in the first place,,,
I called my guy and asked what he uses,,,
Because his results are great.

He uses a gun vise, a torpedo level, and a small line level,,,
But better yet he's offered to show me how to do it.

So I think I'll save my Cabela Bucks for the time being,,,
I can always order it later if I feel the need.

Thanks for your help my friends,,,

Aarond

.

Pahoo · October 2, 2020, 05:14 PM

Quote:

So I think I'll save my Cabela Bucks for the time being,,,
I can always order it later if I feel the need.

Great idea as I have been using the 2-Levels and plumb-line method, Long before the Wheeler. .....

Be Safe !!!

Double K · October 2, 2020, 07:08 PM

I totally agree that the plum bob method is the most accurate, if your pressed for time these do a pretty good job and are inexpensive. Don't be fooled by the simplicity, they work. I have the older model without the level in it.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/100910230?pid=479454

Bart B. · October 3, 2020, 07:22 AM

What do you do if the reticle elevation and windage axes are a degree or more misaligned with the adjustment knob axes?

Nathan · October 3, 2020, 08:09 AM

At some point, using this method, you have to use a plumb line or a leveled target to get the reticle perfectly vertical.

stagpanther · October 3, 2020, 11:48 AM

Quote:

What do you do if the reticle elevation and windage axes are a degree or more misaligned with the adjustment knob axes?

Not clear to me what you are asking. Are you talking the internal adjustments of the scope are not "in tune" with the turrets--adjustment knob do you mean turret(s)? Or are you talking the wheeler tool? Sorry, not being snarky--just can't tell what you mean.

burrhead · October 3, 2020, 02:47 PM

I just use a line level and a shooting bag for stability.

https://www.homedepot.com/pep/Johnso...ce=shoppingads

ed308 · October 3, 2020, 03:11 PM

I use the Wheeler system. Works great. But if I could pay a gunsmith $10 to do it plus bore sight the rifle/AR, I'd go that route. But it would cost way more than $10 in my area. Plus they'd probably keep the rifle/AR for more than a month before doing the work.

Smokescreens · December 13, 2020, 09:46 PM

i have used it more than a few times. what i do is put the small level on the bottom half of the ring so i can use the barrel level to level the gun. then i put the scope on and level off the turret. you would be amazed that if you are not VERY carefull the scope with turn just from the pressure of the clamping force when you tighten down the rings. sometimes it takes me a few trys

Shadow9mm · December 13, 2020, 09:52 PM

I have one, I love it. As some have mentioned its not a perfect system, but it is pretty darn close. I had bought it sooner, money well spent!

HiBC · December 14, 2020, 05:02 AM

I think I get what Bart is saying. The ideal would be a reference based on the force of gravity.like a plumb line ,or water level,or what have you.

And then ,gun leveled in a vise,maybe per the receiver rails, You'd run the sights through full traverse,W and E, to align the sight adjustment travel to the gravty references (plumb line).

I don't doubt thats correct for World Class Palma shooting.

For myself,I don't have an issue with removing the stock,and setting the receiver level in a vise,then hanging a plumb line to align the vertical cross hair

Eight_is_enough · December 14, 2020, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

At some point, using this method, you have to use a plumb line or a leveled target to get the reticle perfectly vertical.

Yes, gadgets will get you close but if you want it exact you have to shoot and verify that when you crank up 30 moa the impact is exactly vertical to the hole made a 0 Moa. A few pages of target dots on 8.5 x 11 paper staples edge-to-edge on a target frame, and a plumb-bob, are all you need.

What is required is that the reticle be pointed at the exact center of the bore. Slight dimensional errors in manufacturing the rifle, scope and/or the rings will be carried through with any of the gadgets. I get it close by eyeballing it, then shoot 0 / 30 moa test at 50 or 100 yards and rotate the scope in the rings as needed to correct any divergence.

aarondhgraham · December 14, 2020, 12:13 PM

I did try the vertical test after using the Wheeler kit,,,
I shot a target at 50, 100, and 200 yards.

There is a little bit (less than an inch) of variance at 200 yards,,,
But that could easily be my own inaccuracy.

Between 50 and 100 yards I can't see any lateral shift at all.

I'm happy with the Wheeler kit.

Aarond

.

ocharry · December 14, 2020, 12:17 PM

what eight said,,,that is for really trueing the scope

but for most of us the line on the wall,,,plum bob,,or even the wheeler set

i have the wheeler set,,,i like it and it does seem to work really well for me,,,and i always check it against my vertical line on the wall with a flash light,,,,i think what i like about the wheeler kit is the clamp on level that goes on the barrel,,,once you get the rifle level,,,you can move it around or if it moves you know it,,,and you dont have to relevel the rifle

also i use the bottom flat of the scope,,,not the turret ,,,,that seem to get me pretty dang close to true,,,,

but if you want it as close as you can get it,,,,you need to shoot a vertical line like eight said

my .02
ocharry

stagpanther · December 14, 2020, 03:01 PM

And how do you verify centerline of your scope is aligned with centerline of your bore (without hanging a line some distance from the scope)?

HiBC · December 14, 2020, 09:56 PM

I suppose you could use a collimator with a spud in the bore.

I bought a used collimator..a Redfield. I tried it,the spud was too tight. I stopped. Muzzle abuse!!
I don't even know what did with it.

Bart B. · December 20, 2020, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stagpanther

Not clear to me what you are asking. Are you talking the internal adjustments of the scope are not "in tune" with the turrets--adjustment knob do you mean turret(s)? Or are you talking the wheeler tool? Sorry, not being snarky--just can't tell what you mean.

Sorry for this late reply......

I'm referring to the reticle wires aligned parallel to the adjustment turrets.

Does the vertical reticle track the vertical adjustment? If not, the reticle cell needs to be twisted. Verify in windage, too.

Bart B. · December 20, 2020, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stagpanther

And how do you verify centerline of your scope is aligned with centerline of your bore (without hanging a line some distance from the scope)?

First, use the 2 V block method to put the scope's line of sight dead center on the scope optical-mechanical axis. That's not midpoint in the scope's E and W adjustment's mechanical limits. There's typically more clicks up and right than down and left from the optical-mechanical axis centered on the outer main tube.

Then mount the scope in a ring adjustable mount (Burris) then adjust the rings to point the scope to boresight on a distant target.

The bore axis is now parallel with the scope's optical and mechanical centerline.

If the scope has a 60 MOA adjustment range, you may not be able to get zeros past 600 yards. About 30 MOA up is all that's available.

Shadow9mm · May 16, 2021, 09:09 AM

So, quick update. I have one. It's a flawed system. It assumes your scope base, receiver, feed lips and scope turret are square. I have had good results a couple times. And one gun that I could not use it on.

I ended up getting the real avid scope leveling kit. Huge improvement. Aligns the scope directly over the barrel. And the cross hairs not the turret. Well worth it imho.

Bart B. · May 16, 2021, 10:11 AM

Has anyone ever checked their scope's tracking in elevation and windage?

That verifies the elevation and windage adjustments are parallel to the vertical and horizontal reticles.

October 2, 2020, 10:06 AM	#1
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	Wheeler Engineering Professional Reticle Leveling System - Anybody use one? Wheeler Engineering Professional Reticle Leveling System - Anybody use one? I played Musical Scopes with nine of my rifles a few weeks back,,, Normally I take my scoped rifles to The Evil Pawn Shop Guy,,, He only charges $10.00 to level & bore sight a gun. But I'm thinking of buying this instead so I can do it myself. Is this a worthwhile product? Wheeler Engineering Professional Reticle Leveling System Aarond . __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time) Last edited by aarondhgraham; October 2, 2020 at 10:18 AM.

October 2, 2020, 10:18 AM	#3
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	Thanks Nathan I appreciate the response. Aarond . __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

October 2, 2020, 02:26 PM	#6
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	Gentlemen,,, Thanks for the replies. As usual though I'm getting ratings from wonderful to worthless,,, This is across three forums I have this posted to. There doesn't seem to be a solid consensus. So I did what I should have done in the first place,,, I called my guy and asked what he uses,,, Because his results are great. He uses a gun vise, a torpedo level, and a small line level,,, But better yet he's offered to show me how to do it. So I think I'll save my Cabela Bucks for the time being,,, I can always order it later if I feel the need. Thanks for your help my friends,,, Aarond . __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

October 3, 2020, 02:47 PM	#12
burrhead Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 1999 Location: Chihuahuan desert, Texas Posts: 1,148	I just use a line level and a shooting bag for stability. https://www.homedepot.com/pep/Johnso...ce=shoppingads __________________ Join the GOA, SAF and the TSRA I'm offended by people that are easily offended.

December 13, 2020, 09:52 PM	#15
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,969	I have one, I love it. As some have mentioned its not a perfect system, but it is pretty darn close. I had bought it sooner, money well spent! __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

October 2, 2020, 10:11 AM	#2
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,325	Yes. Works good.

October 2, 2020, 10:27 AM	#4
Double K Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2020 Location: Colorado Posts: 486	That system is reliant on the reticle being in perfect alignment with the turrets, pretty common for them to be slightly misaligned.

October 2, 2020, 07:08 PM	#8
Double K Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2020 Location: Colorado Posts: 486	I totally agree that the plum bob method is the most accurate, if your pressed for time these do a pretty good job and are inexpensive. Don't be fooled by the simplicity, they work. I have the older model without the level in it. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/100910230?pid=479454

October 3, 2020, 07:22 AM	#9
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	What do you do if the reticle elevation and windage axes are a degree or more misaligned with the adjustment knob axes?

October 3, 2020, 08:09 AM	#10
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,325	At some point, using this method, you have to use a plumb line or a leveled target to get the reticle perfectly vertical.

October 3, 2020, 03:11 PM	#13
ed308 Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2016 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 1,147	I use the Wheeler system. Works great. But if I could pay a gunsmith $10 to do it plus bore sight the rifle/AR, I'd go that route. But it would cost way more than $10 in my area. Plus they'd probably keep the rifle/AR for more than a month before doing the work.

December 13, 2020, 09:46 PM	#14
Smokescreens Member Join Date: August 7, 2017 Location: Harrison township, Michigan Posts: 48	i have used it more than a few times. what i do is put the small level on the bottom half of the ring so i can use the barrel level to level the gun. then i put the scope on and level off the turret. you would be amazed that if you are not VERY carefull the scope with turn just from the pressure of the clamping force when you tighten down the rings. sometimes it takes me a few trys

December 14, 2020, 05:02 AM	#16
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	I think I get what Bart is saying. The ideal would be a reference based on the force of gravity.like a plumb line ,or water level,or what have you. And then ,gun leveled in a vise,maybe per the receiver rails, You'd run the sights through full traverse,W and E, to align the sight adjustment travel to the gravty references (plumb line). I don't doubt thats correct for World Class Palma shooting. For myself,I don't have an issue with removing the stock,and setting the receiver level in a vise,then hanging a plumb line to align the vertical cross hair

December 14, 2020, 12:13 PM	#18
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	I did try the vertical test after using the Wheeler kit,,, I shot a target at 50, 100, and 200 yards. There is a little bit (less than an inch) of variance at 200 yards,,, But that could easily be my own inaccuracy. Between 50 and 100 yards I can't see any lateral shift at all. I'm happy with the Wheeler kit. Aarond . __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

December 14, 2020, 12:17 PM	#19
ocharry Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2006 Posts: 685	what eight said,,,that is for really trueing the scope but for most of us the line on the wall,,,plum bob,,or even the wheeler set i have the wheeler set,,,i like it and it does seem to work really well for me,,,and i always check it against my vertical line on the wall with a flash light,,,,i think what i like about the wheeler kit is the clamp on level that goes on the barrel,,,once you get the rifle level,,,you can move it around or if it moves you know it,,,and you dont have to relevel the rifle also i use the bottom flat of the scope,,,not the turret ,,,,that seem to get me pretty dang close to true,,,, but if you want it as close as you can get it,,,,you need to shoot a vertical line like eight said my .02 ocharry __________________ The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge nor jury. Therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim." - Lt. Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC

December 14, 2020, 03:01 PM	#20
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,771	And how do you verify centerline of your scope is aligned with centerline of your bore (without hanging a line some distance from the scope)? __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

December 14, 2020, 09:56 PM	#21
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	I suppose you could use a collimator with a spud in the bore. I bought a used collimator..a Redfield. I tried it,the spud was too tight. I stopped. Muzzle abuse!! I don't even know what did with it.

May 16, 2021, 09:09 AM	#24
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,969	So, quick update. I have one. It's a flawed system. It assumes your scope base, receiver, feed lips and scope turret are square. I have had good results a couple times. And one gun that I could not use it on. I ended up getting the real avid scope leveling kit. Huge improvement. Aligns the scope directly over the barrel. And the cross hairs not the turret. Well worth it imho. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

May 16, 2021, 10:11 AM	#25
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Has anyone ever checked their scope's tracking in elevation and windage? That verifies the elevation and windage adjustments are parallel to the vertical and horizontal reticles.