Wax vs Lube on Rifle cases

[akinswi]

Im noticed Im getting inconsistent shoulder bumps when Iam resizing My 30-06 brass, I gave tried both my LEE and Forster FLSD’s.

I recently switched over to wax based lube works great no issues but wondering if this is causing my issues.

Brass has been shot out of MY M1 . I do notice when I size brand new brass the shoulder bump is alot more consistent.

Thoughts?

[Unclenick]

Try backing the die out another couple of thousandths, and then sizing each case twice, pausing for five to ten seconds with the brass in the die each time to let it flow. It tends to improve uniformity for me.

Another helper is using the Redding Competition shell holders on a press that uses standard shell holders. If you pick one with the right deck height to kiss the mouth of the sizing die plus a little compression, any non-uniformity in the lube's effects have their influence on shoulder location removed from the operation. If your press does not use a standard shell holder, Redding and others make shims you can slip over top of the cases to give the die mouth something to force it to the exact same height above the base of the case each time.

[HiBC]

You do not specify the degree of variance you are getting. Forster dies have proven very good in my experience. I don't think there is anything wrong with a Lee. Its a static piece of steel.

Are you talking about .0005,.001,.003? Might the issue be press or setup related?

Per Bart,it is likely your bolt face is not square . That does influence measurement.

The Garand itself is a context. I believe the recommended head clearance for Garand competition reloads is .006. This is to provide generous clearance for full battery lockup.

Certainly minimizing variation is a worthwhile pursuit. So is establishing acceptable control limits. Those should be established by data.

I have worked with engineers who routinely tolerance everything .001 or even less. When its necessary,its necessary. Where it is unnecessary,it only wastes time,adds cost and scrap rate. That guy loses to the engineer who recognizes .005 tolerance will be just fine in this application.

No disrespect intended,I'm just trying to understand what the question is.

Do you have an unusual variation or is this an OCD pursuit?

[scatterbrain]

And it could be as simple as spring back from work hardened cases. I anneal to get my range pick up brass as uniform as I can and I measure each case with a comparator before and after resizing, if I see more than .0005" difference I resize. Uniform lubing is a must if you measure.

[HiBC]

And actually dragging the expander ball back out of the neck can pull the shoulder,

There is a list of concerns and remedies there. Forster used to offer a die neck honing service, Imperial offers a dry inside neck lube,etc

[Unclenick]

HiBC,

IIRC, you mentioned in another thread getting that -0.006" head-to-shoulder number from the Precision Shooting Reloading Guide. I went back and read John Feamster's section in that book on gas gun reloading, and on Page 126 he says he tried -0.006" in his 308 Garand and found it didn't appreciably affect the case life he got so he uses it. Then on Page 129 he says he does not recommend setting dies up for -0.002 shoulder setback, but this not because -0.002" head clearance isn't adequate. Rather, it is because variation in case elasticity can cause the same die setup to resize cases with up to +0.003" variation in head to shoulder length resulting. Thus he figures that if you set the die up for -0.002", you may get a few that are actually +0.001" coming out of that setup. Those are what he is trying to avoid. So he set his die to -0.006 shoulder setback so that even his worst case wouldn't likely be closer than -0.003". It's -0.001" more than he strictly needs, but that was the safety margin he wanted. Avoiding alibi strings in matches is critical to match wins because when more than ten holes are in the target, the worst ten are the ones they count. But if a handloader checks every resized case and re-resizes the ones that are too long, he is good to go.

[HiBC]

OK,Thank you!!. I'm not quite sure where my copy of the book went. Its a number stashed in my head.
Your variation and tolerancing explanation is helpful and makes sense

[Unclenick]

You are welcome. Since you qualified your recollection, I wondered if your copy had been misplaced.

I'll add that in LC 30-06 cases I scavenged from matches and that came out of different chambers, I've seen single-stroke resizing efforts produce up to 0.005" variation in resized head-to-shoulder length. Trying to fix that is how I learned I could get them down a little further by re-resizing and letting the brass sit a short time in the die. But even that wasn't enough to get 0.005" out. Those cases required a small base die in the end.

[akinswi]

Hibc,

I measured about 10 and they vaired between .003 to .005. I do anneal my cases after every firing. So I shouldnt have alot of spring back.

Unclenick,

I use a dillon 550 so not able to test using a redding shell holder vs lee shell holder but I could run a test on my lee single stage and see if that makes a difference. But at this point I dont think a couple thousandths is going to make a difference . I was just wondering after reading some articles that maybe the heavier wax lube was causing the issues. I remember you mentioned in an earlier post that You used your trimmer too see if your bolt face was sqaure by turing the cases backwards , wonder If I could do that in my Hornady Case trimmer

[Unclenick]

Akinswi,

The reason the Wilson works it its case holders center the cases along the cutter axis with the neck sticking out of one end and the head sticking out of the other. This makes it possible to flip it around with the case held equally solidly for trimming either end. I think the only other trimmer using the same principle is the CH4D trimmer.