Wet Side of the Force

[RC20]

I have been thinking about it for 3 years (since my brother got his setup)

The 6.5 Lapua pushed me over the edge. Grains sticking inside the case, picking out the primer pocket as well as the grains scattered around as moving into the sifter and back etc.

So I have a CED Tornado headed this way. Not cheap but its not a rock tumbler knock off and comes well equipped with the pins and a screen.

They had a combo deal on the dryer so saves me a trip to Wally World I hate.

Shipping no matter from who was steep, joys of living in AK. sigh.

But I am about to joint the wet side of the force. Will do the work in the bathtub.

I am shooting less, taking more data and my batches will be smaller.

Having quit work time is not generally an issue.

[zplinker]

I first learned of wet cleaning from my brother, in 1985...in Alaska! He had cobbled up a system, and it worked great. That led me to own 4 RCBS Sidewinder units, (junk by the way), and finally the Thumblers type units that work great yet. Never was a fan of forced drying, never had a need. Guys I know who used hot water to rinse, or dehydrators to dry, usually ended up with darkened brass.

[hounddawg]

still using a Frankford Arsenal I bought when the local Bass Pro went belly up. Still hanging in there after doing an average of two loads a week for 5+ years

Raid the kitchen and snag some of the wife's dishwasher tabs, it will save you many a rinse. Any kind will do. I picked up a 100 box from Costco for about ten bucks. Use one with some sort of citric acid and there will be no suds to rinse. I do a single rinse and call it good

[RC20]

My brother was the one who went the wet route 3-4 years ago. I just never quite got to how I would handle it in my house (he has water in his garage). I can get it but not easy.

He went with the CD unit and I never regretted going full bore. He got his dryer at Wally World (food dryer) but they had a combo deal and with the shipping cost, might as well take advantage of it.

Just not dealing with the grit getting around on the bench during the transfer process will clean things up a lot. Save primer pocket cleaning. May be more consistent without the soot in the case.

Downside is the dryer takes up space, upside is I need to clean up the shop anyway and I have places it can go, just taken up with crud.

My brother is real neat and tidy so I pretty much go with his methods as he gets good results.

The CD unit comes with pins and a screen. Lots of setting though I am not sure its needed. Focused on brass not adapted rock machine though as noted those have worked well.

Will report on how it goes

[hounddawg]

To separate the media I use something along this line

https://www.chewy.com/arm-hammer-sif...-pan/dp/183118

Then I turn each case upside down and shake it to make sure there are no pins left inside. Since you use an induction annealer it is doubly important you don't leave a pin in a case.

For drying I just spread the cases on a towel on my bench and let a small fan blow on them overnight

[Unclenick]

RC20,

I've been using the noisy FA tumbler for a time, and don't have a good reason to change, but I'd be interested to hear about your experience with the CED unit. If you get a chance to compare unidirectional cleaning with alternating rotation, I am curious to learn if the claim it cleans faster is true. With respect to the speed control, I would like to learn what that can do for the noise level.

I've solved the noise problem with the FA by letting it run by itself in the basement or the garage, but other folks don't have that luxury and I'd like to be able to tell them the CED is quieter if that proves to be true. For myself, it's out of sight, out of mind, so I don't care about the noise or if it takes a little longer to clean.

I picked up one of Berry's case separators at the NRA meeting in Louisville. It's the rotary kind that sits over a 5-gallon paint tub to drop the pins in. In terms of drying, I follow the practice I learned in college chemistry of final rinsing with a little distilled or deionized water to avoid mineral deposits, and then just let nature take its time drying the cases. After it's dry, I let it have a few more turns in the separator just in case moisture was making the odd pin cling to the inside of a case.

That's about it. Not fast, but serviceable. The need for speed is eliminated by having enough brass to always have clean stuff to use while the other is drying. But if there is specially prepped brass or unusual brass that I don't want to invest in a large quantity of, I can see situations might develop where I wanted to turn it around faster than that. Then I'd get or build a drier.

[hounddawg]

Mine runs in the garage but if noise was a issue a cardboard (or wood if you are handy) box some spray glue and a pack of these would help

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08LNHPGH1...d_asin_0_title

[RC20]

All: I will give a comprehensive report. Noise is less of an issue for me as the shop is isolated from where my wife sits in the evening.

20 feet East, through a door (usually open but can close) and another 15 feet west.

Speed is not an issue for me as I also keep enough brass around to is not a rush.

that said I marked batches with nail polish and will see if that comes off. I can make other marks if needed.

I am going with what worked for my brother with the dryer, gives it a place to dry with less fiddling I think.

I have seen his results and they are beautiful and inside and primer pockets clean as a whistle.

He had to adjust his Annie as the carbon was gone and that changed setting (acualy longer so I assume the carbon was reflected some of the heat build up)

As it has its own sieve built in, that takes care of that.

I will continue to tap the bullet on a 2 x 4 to ensure no pins. Or satisfy myself that when they go into the sifter none are falling out.

[Shadow9mm]

I have fallen in love with wet tumbling. While it is more work, and the results are generally functionally the same, it just looks so incredibly good. Been using the Frankford large rotary tumbler.

Deprime and or resize before tumbling. You can tumble with the primers in, however the primer pockets do not come out nearly as clean, and it takes a lot longer for them to dry.

I use the Frankford Arsenal packs with the pins. Get my brass sparkling clean in about 1hr. I have tried the dawn and lemi shine, had mixed results, but lots of people do well with it. I think it just did not do well with my hard water.

Never had issue with pins getting stuck anywhere. One of the benefits of depriming first, and sizing after is, the decapping pin will generally just push it out.

[hounddawg]

funny thing is I have not noticed an iota of difference shooting shiny brass from the rotary versus my old way of doing it which involved nothing more than a bath in hot water with a bit of detergent to get the dirt off

[Metal god]

I use the FART and noise is an issue for me but what are you going to do . Sometimes I set it out side but usually just set it in my reloading area and turn up the TV or music . It's not like my vibrating tumbler was any quitter , maybe a tad but I'd say not enough to really notice .

LOL this guys does not even actually use the tumbler ,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXQuMNUDxPY

I was hoping to hear how loud it was . I will say I don't believe for a second the drum changing direction will have any effect unless it changes direction every second or so and even then I doubt it . The idea of a washing machine and it's agitator is that the agitator is actively manipulating the contents . That is not the case ;-) with a tumbler . It's the contents inside acting upon each other that does the cleaning so changing direction is not going to do anything it was not already doing before it changed direction .

Looking forward to your review and hope I'm wrong . 2/3 into the video I think I can hear the unit running and it has noise for sure and it's not actually tumbling anything so I suspect it's going to be pretty noisy

[RC20]

funny thing is I have not noticed an iota of difference shooting shiny brass from the rotary versus my old way of doing it which involved nothing more than a bath in hot water with a bit of detergent to get the dirt off

Fill, turn switch on, walk away. There is a huge difference in the inside coming clean (having seen my brothers)

I size with de-prime in on step, then M die, then into the pan.

With dumping media into a sifter, grains getting loose, grains coming out latter when tapping the case, to me the wet is a lot less mess and effort.

I like following my brother as he pioneers and finds the best way and then I just do the same.

[Metal god]

Fill, turn switch on, walk away. There is a huge difference in the inside coming clean (having seen my brothers)

Oh yeah my expander button pulls through wet tumbled brass way easier then brass that has carbon build up on the inside .

[hounddawg]

funny thing is I have not noticed an iota of difference shooting shiny brass from the rotary versus my old way

the keyword is shooting. A few years back my cleaning subsisted of depriming, dumping the cases in a galvanized pail with some hot soapy water, leeeting them soak for 15 min and rinsing. About the only difference in effort put forth now is less time spent rinsing since I switched to dish washer tabs.

When I bought my rotary I was convinced dirty primer pockets made a difference, now I doubt it. Reason I say that is while I shoot better groups now, that applies to rimfire as well as centerfire and I am still shooting same brand rimfire ammo (SK) from the same rimfire rifle (CZ 452) as I was 15 years ago. Shiny toys are nice, got a few myself but my sig says all when it comes to improving your groups

[Scorch]

I used a Thumler's Tumbler rock polisher/wet tumbler for years to clean my brass, finally got tired of drying cases out and just got a Lyman vibrating case tumbler. So I guess I went the other way. But wet tumbling does give you nice clean cases, gotta admit it.

[RC20]

And I do like my bright shiny brass even if it makes no difference, it makes me feel good!

My brother found significant difference in anneal times with a clean inside of the case.

Does that affect the anneal? Not a clue. but it does show there is a definite physical characteristic difference.

Does that translate to more accurate loads? Not a clue.

[hounddawg]

no idea about if affects anneal times but my routine has me cleaning before I anneal. That is another routine where I don't think it makes much difference whether it is perfect or not. Switched to a AMP a few months back have not seen any difference in velocity or accuracy from when I flame annealed. Personally I think we reloaders sweat a lot of stuff that really is not going to make a rats rump of difference on paper

[dwhite]

I bought a Harbor Freight rock tumbler years ago.

Each container gets a pound of cases, a pound of pins, a pound of water, and a shot of Meguiar's Gold Class Car Wash.

About three hours and everything is nice and clean.

Used to use Dawn and Lemi-Shine. The Meguiar's works a lot better and leaves the cases shinier.

[RC20]

I had seen references to the Waxed car Wash. Add to the list.

Ok, so far, some problems but not fatal, just learning stuff.

Pins: Read around a bit and they recomend clenaing the pins first. Got stuff on from mfg and I think it affected the first batch. So I cleaned them.

Pins Sticking In 6.5 Case: I had pins go crosswise in the 6.5 case necks, maybe 50%. Easy enough to get out but annoying. None stuck in the 30-06 and none of the primer pockets had any in them either the small flash hole or the large ones.
My brother says they stop after a couple of time and another suggesting is to just throw out the offenders. Will see how the next batch goes.

First Run: I loaded it up, added what CED said and they came out with the outsides not shiny. Grrr. Insides were good. So I went with the dish soap, a bit of powder from the Dishwasher pod and a smaller amount of lemon shine. Not super bright but good.

Learning Part: I figure this is all about learning, so I spend a lot more time at it than I will down the line. As I have a box of Powder Dishwasher Soap (the pods work vastly better in the Dishwasher) so I will play with that powder as a test and use it up.

Noise/RPM/Time: Biggest drawback for managing is noise. They recommend 50-60 rpm and it clatters. As I did not get the first batch right, I don't know if I can slow it down and use a lot more time. The Unit goes as slow as 5 rpm and it is a lot quieter as you lower the speed. I can close the door to the shop and even at 60 RPM that is enough to allow my wife to not be distracted by it (Living room is next to shop, where she sits is offset 15 feet from the door)
So I can manage noise closing the shop door though I have to keep in mind the cat status (Zip) as the liter box is out in the shop (small house and best place).
The timer only goes to 180 minutes, I am guessing the 5 rpm would need a lot more time but just a guess at this point.
No idea yet on the reverse part, my brother thinks its a help.

More back and forth and learning to manage the water part without making a mess (put me with paint, glue or water and guaranteed a mess).

[sako2]

The pins for my FART stick in 6.5 cases to. They should make the pins .200 long.

[RC20]

I will pull them next time and put in a container, if more joint them then will see if they wear down enough to keep it from happening.

Seems pretty stupid to have to pick them out when you can make them short enough to fit most if not all common cases. sigh - do I have to go ceramic?

[RC20]

Personally I think we reloaders sweat a lot of stuff that really is not going to make a rats rump of difference on paper

I agree, the issue is what stuff is worth sweating and what is not?

In my case I like clean brass and in the case of the 6.5, the bit of carbon build up makes bullet seating harder, so I count a clean 6.5 case a plus.

Clean brass mostly is an image thing, I just like it and am willing to pay for it.

That said some years back a writer interviewed something like 10-15 of the top shooters.

None of them agreed on what was the most important aspects of reloading.

Yes they had some in common, but even those had different ranks of how important it was.

I think Shilen said it best, Ok, we don't think that barrel break in has any relevance, but since you squeaked and hollered and want advice, here it is.

[Unclenick]

RC20,

I see the problem in your photo. You got a mouse tumbler rather than a case tumbler.

The pins have been standardized on the 0.041" (1mm) × 0.264" (6.7mm) size; unfortunate for the neck of any 6.5mm or 0.264 caliber case. You can, however, get them cut to any length you prefer if you are willing to purchase 50 lbs.

[hounddawg]

or use chips

https://www.ammobrass.com/product-pa...r-wet-tumblers

[Unclenick]

Several folks have mentioned using them, though not always in the same calibers. I realize I don't know their dimensions or weight. Do you have that information handy?