The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 1, 2018, 07:59 AM   #1
Troop362
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 2018
Posts: 10
New York and CCW

I am licensed to carry concealed in 46 states. My worry is driving around and flying out of New York State. Does anyone actually know the law about transporting a firearm in the state of New York? I've heard stories of people being charged with a felony for just having a locked firearm in their suitcase at the airport. Question: Can I drive with it locked in my car, ammunition separate, and can I lock it in my suitcase prior to flying out of NY?

Last edited by Troop362; December 1, 2018 at 06:58 PM.
Troop362 is offline  
Old December 1, 2018, 08:25 AM   #2
rebs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 10, 2012
Posts: 3,754
your best bet is to contact the NY state police and ask. Maybe also the port authority about the air port.
NYS does not recognize any other states permits.
rebs is offline  
Old December 1, 2018, 09:29 AM   #3
FITASC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2014
Posts: 4,734
The police know nothing. Contact a lawyer familiar with NY firearm laws.

Also check out Handgunlaw.us
__________________
"I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa
FITASC is offline  
Old December 1, 2018, 09:49 AM   #4
mikejonestkd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2006
Location: Brockport, NY
Posts: 3,222
here's a short answer: Do not bring a handgun into NYS.

NYS does not recognize other states permits. It is a felony to bring an unregistered handgun into NYS, with a few very specific exemptions for competitions and travel directly to another state that you are legally allowed to possess a handgun in.
__________________
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
mikejonestkd is offline  
Old December 1, 2018, 01:24 PM   #5
heyjoe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Posts: 378
no you cannot fly out of an airport in NY without a NYS Permit.
heyjoe is offline  
Old December 1, 2018, 01:34 PM   #6
Rachen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 10, 2006
Location: Weekend cowboy
Posts: 523
Quote:
I am licensed to carry concealed in 46 states. My worry is driving around and flying out of New York State. Does anyone actually know the law about transporting a firearm in the state of New York? I've heard stories of people being charged with a felony for just having a locked firmed in their suitcase at the airport. Question: Can I drive with it locked in my car, ammunition separate, and can I lock it in my suitcase prior to flying out of NY?

Good afternoon sir, it is good you have come here to ask this before you set off on your trip. DO NOT bring a handgun into NY State unless you have an NY State issued CCL. New York is.....for a lack of a better term.....special. And by that, it is not in a good way at all.

This state has formulated a unique blend of predatory capitalism and trampling on gun rights. If you get caught with an unlicensed handgun, you will be arrested. And then, they will plea down your charges and let you go but only after making you pay an extraordinary fine. And if you happen to have any money left in your account after that fine, they will make sure that you use that to pay off the rest of the ridiculously high attorney and legal fees for your case. And most likely you will not get your gun back.

In New York City, this is the third biggest revenue generator, after parking tickets and sidewalk vendor permits. The powers that be here seem to get a kick out of entrapping poor out-of-state tourists who thought they could bring their handguns with them, and then sharking them down to their underpants.
__________________
http://blueskycountry.tumblr.com
BORDERLANDS: THE GRAPHIC NOVEL
Climb onto the saddle and ride with me through the last remaining Wild West frontier in the world. Where a man is judged solely by his actions, and every action carries grave consequences.
Rachen is offline  
Old December 1, 2018, 01:40 PM   #7
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 18,967
There is a general blanket protection in Federal Law, the 1986 FOPA (Firearms Owner Protection Act) that covers you against prosecution by the state, IF you are traveling THROUGH the state, from one place your gun is legal to another where it is legal.

There are certain requirements that must be met in order for this protection to apply, state law enforcement officers cannot be relied on to know what these are, and when they are applicable. Some might, but don't count on it. And, even if you are compliant with the rules, so the Act does cover you, it will not prevent arrest or incarceration awaiting a hearing, and may not prevent charges and an actual trial.

In a nutshell, gun and ammo correctly stored for transport (in the legal sense) no stops inside the prohibitive state (allowances for refueling, comfort stops, and breakdowns) you're covered. If you have a "destination" inside the state, you're not covered.

in other words, you can drive through NY on your way to Maine, and meeting all the other requirements, you're good. But, if you make a side trip to visit Aunt Martha in New Rochelle, that is a "destination" inside NY and you are not protected by the FOPA if you do that. And when you aren't protected by FOPA, you ARE breaking NY law, so expect the maximum if you get caught.

This is NOT legal advice, I'm not a lawyer. My advice is worth what you paid for it. Get actual legal advice, from a NY lawyer about NY law. Don't assume NY police or any well intentioned internet voice can give you valid advice on NY law.

Good Luck.

(and yes, the best advice is don't take guns into NY if you don't HAVE to...
it ain't right, it ain't the way it once was, but it is the way it is today..)
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old December 1, 2018, 02:24 PM   #8
davidsog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 13, 2018
Posts: 517
Quote:
In a nutshell, gun and ammo correctly stored for transport (in the legal sense) no stops inside the prohibitive state (allowances for refueling, comfort stops, and breakdowns) you're covered. If you have a "destination" inside the state, you're not covered.
Airports are also covered. If you are flying out of JFK or LGA you can leave your weapon stored in your vehicle IAW the FOPA and be legally considered "in transport".
davidsog is offline  
Old December 1, 2018, 02:56 PM   #9
Gary Slider
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 10, 2006
Location: New Martinsville, WV
Posts: 347
Troop362, Can you tell me how you are licensed to carry in 46 states? Interested in how you are doing this.
__________________
___________
Gary Slider
Co-Owner Handgunlaw.us
Member Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network.
Gary Slider is offline  
Old December 1, 2018, 04:52 PM   #10
FITASC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2014
Posts: 4,734
Non resident permits like you would get from states like Utah; get enough of them, and you can get many states covered.
__________________
"I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa
FITASC is offline  
Old December 1, 2018, 06:19 PM   #11
Gary Slider
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 10, 2006
Location: New Martinsville, WV
Posts: 347
44 is about the most anyone can have and that is tough to get and you have the right Resident permit. Unless you have a state FL, CO, SC and PA honors you can't carry in any of those states with a Non-Resident permit from any state. Yes you can get a PA and FL non-resident but then you would lose CA, OR, IL, HI, NJ and MD at a min. That would mean getting non-resident permits from MA which requires a trip to MA to apply and most non-residents are now getting a restricted permit for the first few years until they can get a non-restricted one. There are just to many ands ifs or buts. I don believe Troop362 has incorrect info on what states they can carry in and could end up in jail and lose all his firearm rights.
__________________
___________
Gary Slider
Co-Owner Handgunlaw.us
Member Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network.
Gary Slider is offline  
Old December 1, 2018, 06:27 PM   #12
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 11,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troop362
Can I drive with it locked in my car, ammunition separate, and can I lock it in my suitcase prior to flying out of NY?
Short answer: No.

Long answer: Don't even try.
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old December 1, 2018, 06:31 PM   #13
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 11,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsog
Airports are also covered. If you are flying out of JFK or LGA you can leave your weapon stored in your vehicle IAW the FOPA and be legally considered "in transport".
Citation?

What you wrote is the way it should be, but not the way it is. Anyway, the original question was not about leaving a gun locked in your car when you fly.

https://www.morelaw.com/verdicts/case.asp?s=NJ&d=43309

Yes, the Revell case was at Newark Airport, but Newark, LaGuardia and JFK are all under the same Port Authority, which has its own police force. Other airports in New York are not policed by the NY-NJ Port Authority Police, but New York in general is even more anti-gun than New Jersey, so act accordingly.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; December 1, 2018 at 06:39 PM.
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old December 1, 2018, 07:04 PM   #14
Troop362
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 2018
Posts: 10
I currently have eleven CCW permits and plan to travel to Pennsylvania to get my twelfth.
When I leave Pennsylvania I plan to drive to Buffalo NY to fly home. I will be carrying a licensed Sig P239 that I would like to return to San Diego with at the end of my trip.
Troop362 is offline  
Old December 1, 2018, 09:29 PM   #15
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 11,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troop362
When I leave Pennsylvania I plan to drive to Buffalo NY to fly home. I will be carrying a licensed Sig P239 that I would like to return to San Diego with at the end of my trip.
Your Sig P239 is NOT licensed in New York State. To fly with it, you will have to declare it, first to the airline counter agent, and then to the TSA at baggage check. Unless you are exceedingly lucky, either the airline agent or the TSA agent will call the airport police (who are probably NY State Troopers), and then you'll be in for more excitement than most people want in one lifetime.

Greg Revell was legal at home and he was legal at his intended destination, which was Pennsylvania. A missed connection resulted in an overnight stay -- at an airport hotel -- in Newark, NJ. Because he had taken his luggage to the hotel, he had to check the bag with the gun again the next morning. I think it was the airline agent who called the Port Authority Police. They didn't think flying with an overnight stay fit the parameters of the FOPA, so they arrested him.

His case ultimately didn't go to trial, so that aspect of the FOPA has not been clarified by the courts. If you read the language, it basically describes travel in an automobile. I think everyone on this forum probably agrees that the intent was to cover airline travel -- but it doesn't say so. You're treading into uncharted territory.

Either leave the gun at home, or fly through a Pennsylvania airport. Remember, or ask Greg Revell: "You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride."

From almost any county in central or western Pennsylvania, Pittsburgh is about as close as Buffalo.

Oh, and while you're in PA: Open carry is legal before you get your license, concealed carry is not.
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old December 1, 2018, 09:37 PM   #16
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 11,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by FITASC
Non resident permits like you would get from states like Utah; get enough of them, and you can get many states covered.
But not most of the northeastern states. AFAIK, New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Connecticut and Rhode Island don't have reciprocity with any other states, and they don't unilaterally recognize any other states' permits.
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old December 1, 2018, 11:40 PM   #17
mikejonestkd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2006
Location: Brockport, NY
Posts: 3,222
Quote:
I will be carrying a licensed Sig P239 that I would like to return to San Diego with at the end of my trip.
You most certainly will lose that gun forever, along with a ton of hard earned cash, time, and energy if you try to fly out of Buffalo without having a NYS pistol permit.

You'll have to declare it at the airport, and they WILL ask for your NYS permit.
__________________
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
mikejonestkd is offline  
Old December 2, 2018, 12:43 AM   #18
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 18,967
In the Revell case, I believe his error was picking up the bag with the gun from the airline in NJ. If he had left that bag in the custody of the airline, and not taken possession of it in NJ (where he was not legal to have it) there would have been no case. Its obvious he didn't know that, at the time, though.

Quote:
When I leave Pennsylvania I plan to drive to Buffalo NY to fly home. I will be carrying a licensed Sig P239 that I would like to return to San Diego with at the end of my trip.
Ain't gonna happen the way you describe it. The INSTANT you cross the NY border with your pistol, and don't ALREADY have a valid NY permit for THAT gun, you are breaking NY law.

To the best of my knowledge, the state of NY does not recognize other state's permits and does not issue non-resident permits. So, the instant you leave PA and cross into NY, you do NOT have a licensed Sig P239 in the eyes of NY law. You are in possession of an ILLEGAL HANDGUN. And there is no valid defense. FOPA will not protect you in this case. As you have described it, the Buffalo airport is your destination. Your pistol is not legal in NY, so you do not meet "from legal to legal" destination requirements.
Now, you can argue that your trip starts in PA where you are legal, but you won't get to make that argument UNTIL you are in NY court. And, by that time, your lawyer should be the one doing the talking.

Good Luck, a NY jury MIGHT rule in your favor. Personally, I'd take the gun to a PA FFL and have it shipped to an FFL in your home state, paying the applicable costs is much cheaper than what a successful defense will cost you, and infinitely cheaper than what you will pay should you lose. And, you might.

Alternately, fly from PA (where you have the legal permit), even if you have to make connections in NY as long as the gun (properly declared and in airline and TSA approved storage) stays as checked baggage, then you aren't ever possessing it in NY, and therefore not breaking NY law.
You've been advised, the rest is up to you.

Good Luck
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old December 2, 2018, 02:37 AM   #19
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 11,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44_AMP
In the Revell case, I believe his error was picking up the bag with the gun from the airline in NJ. If he had left that bag in the custody of the airline, and not taken possession of it in NJ (where he was not legal to have it) there would have been no case. Its obvious he didn't know that, at the time, though.
That is correct, although as I remember it, the airline didn't give him the choice of leaving the bag in their custody. And, as you mentioned ... he didn't know that he should have asked.
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old December 2, 2018, 04:03 AM   #20
davidsog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 13, 2018
Posts: 517
Quote:
Ass'n of NJ Rifle & Pistol Clubs, Inc. v.Port Auth. of NY & NJ , No. 12-3621 (3d Cir. 2013)
https://law.justia.com/cases/federal...013-09-13.html

Quote:
What you wrote is the way it should be, but not the way it is. Anyway, the original question was not about leaving a gun locked in your car when you fly.

https://www.morelaw.com/verdicts/case.asp?s=NJ&d=43309

Yes, the Revell case was at Newark Airport, but Newark, LaGuardia and JFK are all under the same Port Authority, which has its own police force. Other airports in New York are not policed by the NY-NJ Port Authority Police, but New York in general is even more anti-gun than New Jersey, so act accordingly.
You can even walk thru JFK, LGA, or EWR with you weapon in your locked box and suitcase on the way to check your luggage in without fear of being hassled by the Port Authority.
davidsog is offline  
Old December 2, 2018, 06:18 AM   #21
Troop362
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 2018
Posts: 10
Aguila Blanca... Thank you and all the others for all the good info. I'm staying the hell out of New York State. I fear it won't be long before California ends up the same way.
Troop362 is offline  
Old December 2, 2018, 11:18 AM   #22
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 11,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsog
Quote:
Ass'n of NJ Rifle & Pistol Clubs, Inc. v.Port Auth. of NY & NJ , No. 12-3621 (3d Cir. 2013)
https://law.justia.com/cases/federal...013-09-13.html

You can even walk thru JFK, LGA, or EWR with you weapon in your locked box and suitcase on the way to check your luggage in without fear of being hassled by the Port Authority.
The citation you linked does not appear to support your position.

Quote:
Justia Opinion Summary

The Association of New Jersey Rifle and Pistol Clubs alleged that the Port Authority enforced state gun laws against its non-resident members at Newark Airport. The district court held that 18 U.S.C. 926A does not create a right enforceable under 42 U.S.C. 1983. The Third Circuit affirmed, holding that, in enacting the amended section 926A, Congress did not intend to confer the right upon the plaintiff. Section 926A confers protection upon those who wish to engage in the interstate transportation of firearms: Notwithstanding any other … law … any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle…. The court concluded that Congress did not intend the amended section 926A to benefit those who wish to transport firearms outside of vehicles.

In post #15, above, I wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca
His case ultimately didn't go to trial, so that aspect of the FOPA has not been clarified by the courts. If you read the language, it basically describes travel in an automobile. I think everyone on this forum probably agrees that the intent was to cover airline travel -- but it doesn't say so. You're treading into uncharted territory.
I was not aware of the case cited by davidsog. Apparently at least one court has addressed the issue of whether or not the FOPA applies to travel other than by automobile ... and the court's determination was that it does NOT apply. We can disagree all we want, but this is the district and circuit that covers the NY and NJ airports, so unless/until the Supreme Court says otherwise, in NY and NJ (and other states within the same federal circuit) the FOPA doesn't protect you unless you travel by automobile.

I should add that, under federal law, aircraft other than ultralites are not "vehicles" -- they are "aircraft." (Ultralites, curiously, are "vehicles.")

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; December 2, 2018 at 11:29 AM.
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old December 2, 2018, 12:12 PM   #23
davidsog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 13, 2018
Posts: 517
Quote:
and the court's determination was that it does NOT apply.
Yes but not because you cannot travel from your car to the luggage check in at EWR with a properly stowed weapon / ammunition IAW FOPA.


The court's decision was that New Jersey Gun Owners Club cannot sue the state of New Jersey because they are residents and not travelers.

Quote:
Congress did not intend to confer the right upon the plaintiff.
Because the Plaintiff lives in New Jersey!!!

Quote:
Rather than wrestle with grammar, I believe, as discussed below, that we should focus on the one thing that is clear about § 926A: it does not permit § 1983 liability.
The court most certainly determined that carrying you gun in your luggage to be checked was protected under FOPA. The New Jersey Gun Club cannot sue the state of New Jersey as they are by definition....residents of New Jersey and not travellers under the FOPA.

Quote:
Awkwardly worded though the statute may be, it can reasonably be construed as a comprehensive defense for people traveling with firearms.
https://law.justia.com/cases/federal...013-09-13.html

Once more, the New Jersey courts acknowledge that congress has put some pretty strong teeth in the FOPA that directs the State to compensate should they violate that Federal Law.

What you are confusing is a single case where the traveller's flight was cancelled and they missed their airline scheduled alternate transportation because they chose to get their luggage themselves instead of allowing the airline to transport it.

He missed the bus thru his own choice and had to stay overnight in a hotel in NJ. They brought their firearm/ammunition to the hotel with them.

That traveller lost FOPA protection when he ditched his travel and stayed overnight with this gun and ammunition accessible in the hotel.

That has nothing to do with the fact you can travel thru EWR with a weapon/ammunition IAW FOPA even from your car to the luggage check in.

You cannot decide you are going to stay in New Jersey for a few days and bring your gun/ammunition with you. You are no longer "travelling" IAW the FOPA.
davidsog is offline  
Old December 2, 2018, 12:17 PM   #24
davidsog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 13, 2018
Posts: 517
Understand New Jersey and New York's POV on FOPA.

The statute protects travellers moving thru the state. It does not apply if NJ or NY is your final destination or becomes a destination.

The FOPA does not give you any protections at the destination but rather only for travel THRU to get to your final destination.

If you select a destination where having a firearm is illegal and you are not in compliance with local laws....get a lawyer but you will lose.
davidsog is offline  
Old December 2, 2018, 12:51 PM   #25
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 11,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsog
The court most certainly determined that carrying you gun in your luggage to be checked was protected under FOPA. The New Jersey Gun Club cannot sue the state of New Jersey as they are by definition....residents of New Jersey and not travellers under the FOPA.
I think you're missing something. From pages 6 and 7 of the decision:

Quote:
Although the unwieldy sentence that comprises section 926A is drafted in a roundabout way, on a careful reading its language is clear and unambiguous. It begins by establishing a clear positive entitlement: a person who meets its requirements “shall be entitled ”to transport firearms in certain circumstances. Cf. Gonzaga, 536 U.S. at 287 (contrasting the rights-creating language of “no person ... shall be ... subjected” with language typical of spending clause statutes, e.g., “no funds shall be made available.”). But the part of the sentence that immediately follows expressly conditions this entitlement as only being operative “if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle.” 18 U.S.C. §926A (emphasis supplied).

It is plain from the latter condition that the statute protects only transportation of a firearm in a vehicle, and requires that the firearm and ammunition be neither readily nor directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such vehicle. In particular, the word “such,” in “such transporting vehicle,” by definition refers back to earlier part(s) of the sentence, and the only parts it could possibly refer to are the parts referring to the transportation of a firearm or ammunition. The use of “such” therefore makes clear that the transportation the statute protects must occur in a “transporting vehicle.”

Moreover, if there were any doubt about the statute’s vehicular limitation, the final part of the sentence that follows -- the “Provided” clause -- again makes clear that only vehicular transportation is included in the statutory grant. It states: “Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.” 18 U.S.C. §926A (emphasis supplied). This clause, on its face, presupposes transportation of the firearm in a vehicle.

It follows from this plain meaning that an ambulatory plaintiff who intends to transit through Newark Airport is outside the coverage of the statute. But it is precisely such people whose alleged rights under section 926A the Association seeks here to vindicate.
I could go on at length about what I perceive to be significant flaws in the reasoning underlying the above, but the fact remains that the Third Circuit has determined that the protections of the FOPA do not apply to a passenger who walks into an airport with a firearm in his/her suitcase.


{Edit to add}The case was not decided on the basis that the Association did not have standing. From the footnote on page 4:

Quote:
In a prior non-precedential decision, another panel of this Court reversed the District Court’s dismissal of this case on standing grounds and directed the District Court to permit the Association to amend its complaint to allege facts sufficient to demonstrate standing. See Revell v. Port Auth. of N.Y. and N.J., 321 F. App’x 113 (3d Cir. 2009). The Association did so by properly asserting the rights of its non-resident members.
So, lack of standing was not the determiner.

From page 13:

Quote:
In light of the plain meaning of the statute, fully corroborated by the legislative history, we hold that section 926A benefits only those who wish to
transport firearms in vehicles — and not, therefore, any of the kinds of “transportation” that, by necessity, would be involved should a person like those represented by the Association wish to transport a firearm by foot through an airport terminal or Port Authority site.
This would also suggest that, in the case of a person traveling by automobile through the Third Circuit states who stop for the night at a roadside hotel, the firearm(s) and ammunition must remain in the vehicle during the time the traveler is at the hotel for eating and sleeping.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; December 2, 2018 at 01:09 PM.
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12474 seconds with 8 queries