1911 hammer drops with Safety on

kh1911 · January 13, 2018, 09:58 PM

I just bought a vintage 1911 hammer for my build and I installed it simple as can be. However when checking for safe function of the hammer I noticed that I can fully pull the trigger and "fire" the pistol with the thumb safety engaged. I haven't encountered this problem before and I couldn't find anything helpful on the internet so I'm not quite sure what the solution is. The hammer I had on the gun previously had no issues at all so I'm not sure if the safety needs to be fitted with the hammer or if the hammer is just junk. Any thoughts?

tangolima · January 13, 2018, 11:30 PM

The thumb safety blocks the sear. While it is on, the sear should not move at all when the trigger is pulled. I think it may not be the case in your pistol. The sear still moves a little. The original hammer didn't drop because it has more engagement with the hammer. It is not koser although it works.

The hammer you bought is an old part. Someone may have too much a trigger job on it. You may want to recheck to make sure the notch has adequate positive engagement with the sear.

-TL

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

rock185 · January 13, 2018, 11:43 PM

Hello kh1911, what TL said. IF, the vintage hammer is as it should be, your thumb safety will have to be welded up and refitted, or a new safety fitted. The thumb safety is always the last thing fitted whenever any 1911 lockwork parts are modified or changed. I have not been so fortunate as to encounter many 1911 parts that dropped in "simple as can be" AND actually fit properly and safely......ymmv

BILLG · January 14, 2018, 08:48 AM

And this is what gives the 1911 a bad name.Kitchen gunsmiths.lol

FITASC · January 14, 2018, 09:15 AM

If the original hammer was working properly, wht did you want to replace it?

RickB · January 14, 2018, 12:30 PM

Any time you change a hammer or sear, a new safety may be in the cards.
I put a circa 1912 short-spur hammer in my 1918 Colt, and it created an unsafe condition with the safety.
I put a new sear, same brand as the old sear, in a modern Colt, and in that instance the safety needed to have some material removed for a correct fit.
It's a crap shoot.

pblanc · January 14, 2018, 12:40 PM

I would test that new hammer for step-off before I did anything. Cock the hammer of the empty gun and disengage the thumb safety. Push forward on the hammer with moderate force. If it steps off the sear, the pistol is unsafe even if you install a new thumb safety.

marine6680 · January 14, 2018, 01:52 PM

Older designs like the 1911 require more fitting than newer designs. Parts may or may not work as drop in.

T. O'Heir · January 14, 2018, 02:22 PM

It a 1911 hammer into a 1911A1? Either one requires fitting. Drop in they ain't.
It a new vintage part or a used vintage part? A used part would be suspect.

ammo.crafter · January 14, 2018, 03:47 PM

Preblanc is right on.

kh1911 · January 14, 2018, 07:08 PM

BillG I am not a kitchen gunsmith. Thank you for contributing nothing

rodfac · January 15, 2018, 08:15 PM

Get a copy of Jerry Kuhnhausen's shop manuals on the .45, or the Army's overhaul manual and check it out, both have the proper gauged dimensions for various parts, and the accepted fix for malfunctions... As it now stands, you have a ND looking for a place to happen. I witnessed a 1911 run fully automatic from the first cartridge til the magazine was empty....not pretty, though no one was hurt. As a result, I test all safety functions on any 1911 I intend to load and fire. Out of battery, thumb safety, grip safety and hammer follow through...Rod

James K · January 15, 2018, 09:36 PM

M1911 and M1911A1 military and countless thousands of similar civilian models have been made by dozens of makers over a period of 104 years (and counting). Guns and parts will vary a lot. Which is why just swapping parts is not always the answer to problems, even though the ads by parts suppliers sometimes make it seen that way.

(The remark about "kitchen table gunsmiths" was probably not necessary, but I can't help but think that a professional pistolsmith would not have posted that question in the first place.)

Jim

RickB · January 15, 2018, 10:03 PM

I wear my Kitchen Table Gunsmith badge with pride.
When someone disses Dremel, all I can say is, "A man's got to know his limitations."

January 13, 2018, 09:58 PM	#1
kh1911 Member Join Date: July 15, 2012 Posts: 54	1911 hammer drops with Safety on I just bought a vintage 1911 hammer for my build and I installed it simple as can be. However when checking for safe function of the hammer I noticed that I can fully pull the trigger and "fire" the pistol with the thumb safety engaged. I haven't encountered this problem before and I couldn't find anything helpful on the internet so I'm not quite sure what the solution is. The hammer I had on the gun previously had no issues at all so I'm not sure if the safety needs to be fitted with the hammer or if the hammer is just junk. Any thoughts?

January 13, 2018, 11:43 PM	#3
rock185 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2001 Location: Out West in Rim Country Posts: 1,093	Hello kh1911, what TL said. IF, the vintage hammer is as it should be, your thumb safety will have to be welded up and refitted, or a new safety fitted. The thumb safety is always the last thing fitted whenever any 1911 lockwork parts are modified or changed. I have not been so fortunate as to encounter many 1911 parts that dropped in "simple as can be" AND actually fit properly and safely......ymmv __________________ COTEP 640, NRA Life

January 14, 2018, 09:15 AM	#5
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	If the original hammer was working properly, wht did you want to replace it? __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

January 14, 2018, 12:30 PM	#6
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	Any time you change a hammer or sear, a new safety may be in the cards. I put a circa 1912 short-spur hammer in my 1918 Colt, and it created an unsafe condition with the safety. I put a new sear, same brand as the old sear, in a modern Colt, and in that instance the safety needed to have some material removed for a correct fit. It's a crap shoot. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

January 14, 2018, 02:22 PM	#9
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	It a 1911 hammer into a 1911A1? Either one requires fitting. Drop in they ain't. It a new vintage part or a used vintage part? A used part would be suspect. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

January 13, 2018, 11:30 PM	#2
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,827	The thumb safety blocks the sear. While it is on, the sear should not move at all when the trigger is pulled. I think it may not be the case in your pistol. The sear still moves a little. The original hammer didn't drop because it has more engagement with the hammer. It is not koser although it works. The hammer you bought is an old part. Someone may have too much a trigger job on it. You may want to recheck to make sure the notch has adequate positive engagement with the sear. -TL Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

January 14, 2018, 08:48 AM	#4
BILLG Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2000 Posts: 210	And this is what gives the 1911 a bad name.Kitchen gunsmiths.lol

January 14, 2018, 12:40 PM	#7
pblanc Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 697	I would test that new hammer for step-off before I did anything. Cock the hammer of the empty gun and disengage the thumb safety. Push forward on the hammer with moderate force. If it steps off the sear, the pistol is unsafe even if you install a new thumb safety.

January 14, 2018, 01:52 PM	#8
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	Older designs like the 1911 require more fitting than newer designs. Parts may or may not work as drop in.

January 14, 2018, 03:47 PM	#10
ammo.crafter Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2006 Location: The Keystone State Posts: 1,970	1911 Preblanc is right on. __________________ "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". --Thomas Jefferson

January 14, 2018, 07:08 PM	#11
kh1911 Member Join Date: July 15, 2012 Posts: 54	BillG I am not a kitchen gunsmith. Thank you for contributing nothing

January 15, 2018, 08:15 PM	#12
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,624	Get a copy of Jerry Kuhnhausen's shop manuals on the .45, or the Army's overhaul manual and check it out, both have the proper gauged dimensions for various parts, and the accepted fix for malfunctions... As it now stands, you have a ND looking for a place to happen. I witnessed a 1911 run fully automatic from the first cartridge til the magazine was empty....not pretty, though no one was hurt. As a result, I test all safety functions on any 1911 I intend to load and fire. Out of battery, thumb safety, grip safety and hammer follow through...Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73. Last edited by rodfac; January 15, 2018 at 08:24 PM.

January 15, 2018, 09:36 PM	#13
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	M1911 and M1911A1 military and countless thousands of similar civilian models have been made by dozens of makers over a period of 104 years (and counting). Guns and parts will vary a lot. Which is why just swapping parts is not always the answer to problems, even though the ads by parts suppliers sometimes make it seen that way. (The remark about "kitchen table gunsmiths" was probably not necessary, but I can't help but think that a professional pistolsmith would not have posted that question in the first place.) Jim

January 15, 2018, 10:03 PM	#14
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	I wear my Kitchen Table Gunsmith badge with pride. When someone disses Dremel, all I can say is, "A man's got to know his limitations." __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.