Never clean a .22 rifle - Page 4

Brad Clodfelter · September 20, 2007, 08:21 PM

John,

First off I'm not here to argue.

Second off I'm not here to put anyone down, and I'm not saying you are saying I am doing that. I just want to make that clear. I respect each and everyone of you here.

Now back to what I meant by a barrel being fouled that may shoot better. All barrels and that's including most bench guns will shoot more than likely their best after they become lubed(or to a point fouled a little) after being cleaned with a brush. On a precision custom barrel regardless if it is on a 10/22 or a custom built bench rifle, more times than not it will take approx 5-10 shots to do this. Not many of a barrel that has just been cleaned out with a brush will shoot its very first shot exactly on with the rest. Now the 1st shot may be just a tadbit off, but it should be close. I did have a centerfire that would do this though. It was the exception to the rule from what I have seen. Now some barrels may shoot better more dirtier because they are pitted are starting to wear and the fouling helps to fill these worn areas. But a barrel made to precision and not worn, will more than likely shoot its best being clean.

I personally don't know the standard hardness for a rifle barrel. I would guess it to be around 28-30 Rockwell. The Denny Phillips cleaning rod I have is 35 Rockwell from what Denny has told me personally on the phone. I believe his rod is supposedly harder than the barrel steel. I thought that my buddy told me once that most barrel steel has a Rockwell hardness of around 30. But I may be wrong.

What Picher said earlier, is probably very much true about the contaminents and carbon in the barrel that ends up doing damage over time in a rifle barrel. I can't prove that. But I agree with him.

I'm not here to prove really anything for I don't have all the answers. But what I do believe is this. More cheap rods that bend easily that are made out of a cheap soft steel or aluminum regardless of what others might tell you, will be death to your bore. The last thing you want is rod slapping in your barrel. That is why you want a rod harder than the barrel steel. Having a bore guide that doesn't, I repeat doesn't line up perfectly with your bore will only add to this problem. A softer rod will bend easily and slap a barrel to death when cleaning it. I encourage all of you to check your rods ocassioanally by rolling just the rod itself on a pre-determined clean level area. If it's bent, you will see it. I have seen several brand new rods that were in a gun store for sell that were bent as hell. I checked them for straightness and was amazed at how many were bent. Like I said, if I didn't have the right stuff to clean my barrels with, I too would just leave them alone.

Bill Calfee has designed a test about a cleaning rod being the proper hardness. In his test,(and he has done this with the Phillips cleaning rod and it passed the test) he clamps the handle in a vise, and bends it 10" to the right or 10" to the left which by the way has already been measured out beforehand. Then he checks the rod for straightness. If the rod is hard enough it will pass this test and not bend and be as straight as it was. Cheap rods, or aluminum rods won't. Now, no, your not going to present this much torture to most rods when cleaning your barrels, but eventually a rod that won't pass this test when new and if you keep using it in your barrel, it will more than likley bend eventually. That's why it's important to have a hard rod to clean your barrels. It will stay straight for years upon years.

I will ask my friend what the hardness of most barrel steel is.

I will try and get back with you when I have an answer.

Brad

**JohnKSa** · September 20, 2007, 08:29 PM

Quote:

But what I do believe is this. More cheap rods that bend easily that are made out of a cheap soft steel or aluminum regardless of what others might tell you, will be death to your bore. That is why you want a rod harder than the barrel steel. Having bore guide that doesn't, I repeat doesn't line up perfectly with your bore will only add to the problem.

Agree 100%

Quote:

I will ask my friend what the hardness of most barrel steel is.

Thanks! I'm very interested to see the numbers.

Brad Clodfelter · September 20, 2007, 08:59 PM

No problem John, and thanks for your contributions here.

Also to clear up what I said earlier about leading or lead build up in a barrel is this. The ammunition you shoot through your barrel really in all practicallity is what will or won't cause your rifle barrel to lead. Now I'm saying this to those guys who don't believe in using a brush in their barrels. The leading that will occur if it is going too, will be just in front the of the chamber and referred to by benchrest shooters as "lead ring". This lead build up caused by certain ammos that aren't lubed accordingly or from what I believe may be determined by the hardness level of the lead used. Whether this lead ring is caused by the lube used or not used on certain ammos, or possibly by softer or harder lead bullets than others, I can't say. But it can happen. Bill Calfee has said the only way to get rid of this lead ring once it happens or to prevent this lead ring from happening again, is to use a brush in the barrel.

Brad

**JohnKSa** · September 20, 2007, 09:05 PM

Quote:

...thanks for your contributions here.

Thanks and ditto!

Quote:

Bill Calfee has said the only way to get rid of this lead ring once it happens or to prevent this lead ring from happening again, is to use a brush in the barrel.

Agree. If you are having any significant amount of barrel leading it's going to have to be removed to maintain accuracy. I also agree with the idea that it's probably going to have to be removed mechanically. I say "probably" because I think it's probably also possible to remove it with a "Foul Out" type system. Certainly a brush is a much more common and inexpensive approach.

Brad Clodfelter · September 20, 2007, 09:47 PM

John,

I did some looking and I found the answer to how hard most barrel steel is from the man who would know, Bill Calfee himself.

Read Kathy's who is Bill Calfee by the way, post #6 here. On post #18 he goes into detail about the test I mentioned earlier above. Read post #10 about what Bill says about why you want a hard rod. Maybe this will get some people to understand why soft rods aren't the way to go. Feel free to read the whole thing if you like. Denny Phillips even has his email address posted there if you want one of his rods. I would guess he is still making them. You won't be disappointed I promise you that. I paid $45 shipped for mine. I haven't seen or used a better rod than his. It is the ultimate cleaning rod.

http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41257

**JohnKSa** · September 20, 2007, 10:55 PM

That's actually softer than I expected...

lil Glock · December 25, 2017, 12:47 AM

Two clean dry patches and done

Model12Win · December 25, 2017, 01:08 AM

I run a patch through them every 500 rounds or so, moistened with oil.

Art Eatman · December 25, 2017, 09:45 AM

Ten years later is not a record for Necrothreadia, but it's pretty high on the list.

JWT · December 25, 2017, 12:02 PM

Never, ever, leave a sleeping thread lie...

Targa · December 25, 2017, 12:15 PM

At least the search function was used...

T. O'Heir · December 25, 2017, 01:35 PM

OP is 10 years old. And it's not 'never'. It's annually.

Bayou · December 25, 2017, 01:47 PM

I clean the bore and wherever a Q-tip can reach in and about the action. I never disassemble until something fails.

In 50 + years of shooting, no rimfire has ever failed to operate properly for me...

Hawg · December 25, 2017, 02:22 PM

I clean when accuracy starts to fall off or when it starts to malfunction.

September 20, 2007, 08:21 PM	#76
Brad Clodfelter Registration in progress Join Date: January 26, 2007 Posts: 925	John, First off I'm not here to argue. Second off I'm not here to put anyone down, and I'm not saying you are saying I am doing that. I just want to make that clear. I respect each and everyone of you here. Now back to what I meant by a barrel being fouled that may shoot better. All barrels and that's including most bench guns will shoot more than likely their best after they become lubed(or to a point fouled a little) after being cleaned with a brush. On a precision custom barrel regardless if it is on a 10/22 or a custom built bench rifle, more times than not it will take approx 5-10 shots to do this. Not many of a barrel that has just been cleaned out with a brush will shoot its very first shot exactly on with the rest. Now the 1st shot may be just a tadbit off, but it should be close. I did have a centerfire that would do this though. It was the exception to the rule from what I have seen. Now some barrels may shoot better more dirtier because they are pitted are starting to wear and the fouling helps to fill these worn areas. But a barrel made to precision and not worn, will more than likely shoot its best being clean. I personally don't know the standard hardness for a rifle barrel. I would guess it to be around 28-30 Rockwell. The Denny Phillips cleaning rod I have is 35 Rockwell from what Denny has told me personally on the phone. I believe his rod is supposedly harder than the barrel steel. I thought that my buddy told me once that most barrel steel has a Rockwell hardness of around 30. But I may be wrong. What Picher said earlier, is probably very much true about the contaminents and carbon in the barrel that ends up doing damage over time in a rifle barrel. I can't prove that. But I agree with him. I'm not here to prove really anything for I don't have all the answers. But what I do believe is this. More cheap rods that bend easily that are made out of a cheap soft steel or aluminum regardless of what others might tell you, will be death to your bore. The last thing you want is rod slapping in your barrel. That is why you want a rod harder than the barrel steel. Having a bore guide that doesn't, I repeat doesn't line up perfectly with your bore will only add to this problem. A softer rod will bend easily and slap a barrel to death when cleaning it. I encourage all of you to check your rods ocassioanally by rolling just the rod itself on a pre-determined clean level area. If it's bent, you will see it. I have seen several brand new rods that were in a gun store for sell that were bent as hell. I checked them for straightness and was amazed at how many were bent. Like I said, if I didn't have the right stuff to clean my barrels with, I too would just leave them alone. Bill Calfee has designed a test about a cleaning rod being the proper hardness. In his test,(and he has done this with the Phillips cleaning rod and it passed the test) he clamps the handle in a vise, and bends it 10" to the right or 10" to the left which by the way has already been measured out beforehand. Then he checks the rod for straightness. If the rod is hard enough it will pass this test and not bend and be as straight as it was. Cheap rods, or aluminum rods won't. Now, no, your not going to present this much torture to most rods when cleaning your barrels, but eventually a rod that won't pass this test when new and if you keep using it in your barrel, it will more than likley bend eventually. That's why it's important to have a hard rod to clean your barrels. It will stay straight for years upon years. I will ask my friend what the hardness of most barrel steel is. I will try and get back with you when I have an answer. Brad Last edited by Brad Clodfelter; September 21, 2007 at 04:10 AM. Reason: spelling errors

September 20, 2007, 08:59 PM	#78
Brad Clodfelter Registration in progress Join Date: January 26, 2007 Posts: 925	No problem John, and thanks for your contributions here. Also to clear up what I said earlier about leading or lead build up in a barrel is this. The ammunition you shoot through your barrel really in all practicallity is what will or won't cause your rifle barrel to lead. Now I'm saying this to those guys who don't believe in using a brush in their barrels. The leading that will occur if it is going too, will be just in front the of the chamber and referred to by benchrest shooters as "lead ring". This lead build up caused by certain ammos that aren't lubed accordingly or from what I believe may be determined by the hardness level of the lead used. Whether this lead ring is caused by the lube used or not used on certain ammos, or possibly by softer or harder lead bullets than others, I can't say. But it can happen. Bill Calfee has said the only way to get rid of this lead ring once it happens or to prevent this lead ring from happening again, is to use a brush in the barrel. Brad Last edited by Brad Clodfelter; September 21, 2007 at 03:44 PM. Reason: re-phrased my wording to be more clearer

September 20, 2007, 09:47 PM	#80
Brad Clodfelter Registration in progress Join Date: January 26, 2007 Posts: 925	John, I did some looking and I found the answer to how hard most barrel steel is from the man who would know, Bill Calfee himself. Read Kathy's who is Bill Calfee by the way, post #6 here. On post #18 he goes into detail about the test I mentioned earlier above. Read post #10 about what Bill says about why you want a hard rod. Maybe this will get some people to understand why soft rods aren't the way to go. Feel free to read the whole thing if you like. Denny Phillips even has his email address posted there if you want one of his rods. I would guess he is still making them. You won't be disappointed I promise you that. I paid $45 shipped for mine. I haven't seen or used a better rod than his. It is the ultimate cleaning rod. http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41257 Last edited by Brad Clodfelter; September 21, 2007 at 04:14 AM.

September 20, 2007, 10:55 PM	#81
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,985	That's actually softer than I expected... __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

December 25, 2017, 01:35 PM	#87
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	OP is 10 years old. And it's not 'never'. It's annually. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

December 25, 2017, 12:47 AM	#82
lil Glock Junior Member Join Date: November 29, 2017 Posts: 1	Two clean dry patches and done

December 25, 2017, 01:08 AM	#83
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	I run a patch through them every 500 rounds or so, moistened with oil.

December 25, 2017, 09:45 AM	#84
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Ten years later is not a record for Necrothreadia, but it's pretty high on the list.

December 25, 2017, 12:02 PM	#85
JWT Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2007 Location: Southern Arizona Posts: 3,888	Never, ever, leave a sleeping thread lie...

December 25, 2017, 12:15 PM	#86
Targa Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2014 Posts: 2,084	At least the search function was used...

December 25, 2017, 01:47 PM	#88
Bayou Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2016 Location: SE Louisiana Posts: 300	I clean the bore and wherever a Q-tip can reach in and about the action. I never disassemble until something fails. In 50 + years of shooting, no rimfire has ever failed to operate properly for me... __________________ Bayou NRA Life Member "Keep Calm and Reload"

December 25, 2017, 02:22 PM	#89
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	I clean when accuracy starts to fall off or when it starts to malfunction.