Questions on some .30-40 Krag ammo

1940izhevsk · January 30, 2018, 07:26 PM

I have some old Remington Core-Lokt rounds for my late grandfather's Krag-Jørgensen rifle, although it has some questionable "stuff" on a few cases and projectiles. It's a teal-ish powdery substance that's a little concerning, to be honest.

Is it anything that makes the ammo unusable? Can I clean it off and then use it? .30-40 is starting to become hen's teeth at this day in age...

https://twitter.com/Mhymyk1/status/958496958678581248

HiBC · January 30, 2018, 07:49 PM

I would not shoot it.

Sometimes when powder gets old,the chemicals released eats brass.

I'm not an expert,but I'd guess the green is mostly copper.Where did it come from? I'm thinking the brass that the copper left is not the same anymore.

Remember the brass is all that keeps about 40,000 psi of hot gas from blowing your stock to splinters and modifying your face and eyeballs.

Good news is Hornady is making brass for 30-40. You can probably order it today from Midway or Graf's or Natchez. Its roughly $35 for 50 pieces.

1940izhevsk · January 30, 2018, 08:38 PM

I took some 0000 steel wool to the cartridges, and it seems to clean up well. The residue seems to have not harmed the brass nor projectiles at all, just some light spots from covering said area. The brass itself has gone from a dull brass to a dull shine, as if it was untouched.

Slamfire · January 30, 2018, 08:45 PM

Personally, I would pull the bullets and inspect the interior of the cases for corrosion.

If there is evidence of corrosion I would not use the brass, but the bullets are salvageable.

I would not re use old gunpowder as old gunpowder, and lets say this is older than 20 years gunpowder, has a lot of problems. One of which is burn rate instability and that has blown up firearms in the past. With old ammunition, if there is ever an indication that it is "hot", that is giving indications of over pressure, stop shooting the stuff. Pull the bullets, dump the powder, save what components you can.

Another issue with old gunpowder is that is out gasses NOx, and that ruins brass. Old gunpowder is bad, and it gets worse.

Pathfinder45 · January 30, 2018, 09:28 PM

Yeah, if that's corrosion leaking through from the inside, then only the bullets are worth salvaging. If it's from contact with leather or what-have-you, that is, only outside verdigris, then perhaps some of the cases may also be salvageable. But don't risk life-and-limb trying to shoot it. I have bought worse looking ammo simply because it had bullets of interest that I wanted to remount on good cases with fresh powder and primers. If cases look good, inside and out, I will run them through the case polisher along with the bullets and re-use them. Sometimes I will weigh and inspect the powder charges to satisfy my curiosity, but no matter how good it looks, the powder always gets replaced with fresh, primers, too, while I'm at it. I've dismantled some ammo that looked good on the outside, but alarming on the inside.

By the way, I have to say that Slamfire has an excellent, informative post.

RC20 · January 31, 2018, 11:24 AM

My mantra has become.

I have never been sorry when I was safe.

I have too often been sorry when I was not.

Pull the bullets, all of them see what is there, not for recovery but for background. It may be good or may not. You don't know until all are checked.

I have worked with commercial/industrial engines for 40 years (longer including driving them)

One of the hardest thing to do is throw something like oil away you are not sure of. There is something innately ingrained in our mental process not to throw things away that "might" be good.

The best approach is to think of the consequence vs any possible gain.

A few rounds gets you nothing, a blown up case can get you a damaged you or gun or both, crudded chamber.

I have dumped some 5 gallons buckets of oil I could not conclusively prove had not been contaminated .

Trust me, its tough, but I was fortunate in my approach was, what is a few gallons of oil vs damaging an entire engine and the overhaul costs? my job? and out of service impact?

I had a guy who did not want to dispose of 5 gallons of diesel (old and cruddy and we had a method to easily do so) so he dumped it into one of my 500 gallon tanks.

In the end we had to pump out 300 gallons of fuel, remove the pump and all the ports and fittings, send it out to get steam cleaned.

He was gone and I got to enjoy a long summers work off and on. The only good part was I picked the nice days I could work (I had reserved file inside so I was ok) - the bad part it was on the North side of the building and shaded and a tad windy.

It cost the company 5 grand or so.

T. O'Heir · January 31, 2018, 04:01 PM

The tealish powdery substance is copper oxide. It's the copper coming out of the alloy. Your stuff doesn't look entirely terrible. I've seen worse. Use 0000 steel wool to take it off and do a really close case inspection. Probably best to pull the bullets and pitch 'em though.
"....30-40 is starting to become hen's teeth..." Worse than that. It's only loaded and made at all "seasonally" by Remington and Winchester with no mention by anybody when or what season it might be. However, Midway is showing Hornady Custom brand 180 grain SP ammo as being on Backorder OK. Also says it's over due though.

FrankenMauser · January 31, 2018, 04:30 PM

I can't give any advice based just on the photos.

If it were mine, I'd have to decide whether the corrosion was external-only, or if I needed to pull a few apart and inspect the powder.

Quote:

It's only loaded and made at all "seasonally" by Remington and Winchester with no mention by anybody when or what season it might be.

That "season" is when they get enough orders to put it on the production schedule - and then it hits the market about 4 to 13 months later.
Neither Remington nor Olin run obsolete cartridges unless they have orders from distributors/retailers.

1940izhevsk · January 31, 2018, 06:41 PM

Pulled a couple bullets, everything looks fine. No visible corrosion on case or projectile.

mete · January 31, 2018, 07:14 PM

" season" ?? Get the story right !!
The British Army in India found corrosion I the wet season of India but not in the dry season ! The wet season brought rain and thunderstorms. The lightning in those storms created ammonia compounds which were corrosive .In the making of the cases stresses were introduced . That whole process is what we metallurgists call "tress-Corrosion-Cracking" That problem is now eliminated by annealing the cases.
Deterioration of the powder is another cause of corrosion , nicely photo'd in the thread.
While light corrosion is mostly just a visual thing it can be polished off. Similar corrosion occurs when ammo is stored in a leather ammo belt.
Clean off the corrosion but if there is any pitting discard the case.

gw44 · January 31, 2018, 09:53 PM

You can still buy 30-40 ammo it is not that hard to find, my son hand loads for his he never has trouble getting brass !!!

gw44 · January 31, 2018, 10:09 PM

I just checked and you can get all you want at Midwayusa $33.95 a box !!!

taylorce1 · February 1, 2018, 09:34 AM

You can also make brass from .303 Brit case's fairly easy and cheaply. I don't trust ammo that there are any questions about, pull the bullets dump the powder, spray WD40 inside the case to kill the primers. Then inspect everything and decide what is safe to reuse upon a complete and thorough inspection of everything.

Graf & Sons .30-40 Brass

1940izhevsk · February 2, 2018, 03:11 PM

@mete, the ammo has been stored in a leather ammo pouch for some time, so you're right on the corrosion due to leather storage. All the cases look fine, pretty much zero pitting on the cases.

1940izhevsk · February 4, 2018, 01:33 PM

Went to the range yesterday, shot the Krag, no issues with ammo. That Krag was a dream to shoot, loved every shot.

January 30, 2018, 07:26 PM	#1
1940izhevsk Member Join Date: July 5, 2016 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 59	Questions on some .30-40 Krag ammo I have some old Remington Core-Lokt rounds for my late grandfather's Krag-Jørgensen rifle, although it has some questionable "stuff" on a few cases and projectiles. It's a teal-ish powdery substance that's a little concerning, to be honest. Is it anything that makes the ammo unusable? Can I clean it off and then use it? .30-40 is starting to become hen's teeth at this day in age... https://twitter.com/Mhymyk1/status/958496958678581248 __________________ What does unburnt powder smell like? Pepper. What does burnt powder smell like? Awesome!

January 30, 2018, 08:38 PM	#3
1940izhevsk Member Join Date: July 5, 2016 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 59	Quick update I took some 0000 steel wool to the cartridges, and it seems to clean up well. The residue seems to have not harmed the brass nor projectiles at all, just some light spots from covering said area. The brass itself has gone from a dull brass to a dull shine, as if it was untouched. __________________ What does unburnt powder smell like? Pepper. What does burnt powder smell like? Awesome!

January 30, 2018, 08:45 PM	#4
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	Personally, I would pull the bullets and inspect the interior of the cases for corrosion. If there is evidence of corrosion I would not use the brass, but the bullets are salvageable. I would not re use old gunpowder as old gunpowder, and lets say this is older than 20 years gunpowder, has a lot of problems. One of which is burn rate instability and that has blown up firearms in the past. With old ammunition, if there is ever an indication that it is "hot", that is giving indications of over pressure, stop shooting the stuff. Pull the bullets, dump the powder, save what components you can. Another issue with old gunpowder is that is out gasses NOx, and that ruins brass. Old gunpowder is bad, and it gets worse. __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.

January 31, 2018, 11:24 AM	#6
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	My mantra has become. I have never been sorry when I was safe. I have too often been sorry when I was not. Pull the bullets, all of them see what is there, not for recovery but for background. It may be good or may not. You don't know until all are checked. I have worked with commercial/industrial engines for 40 years (longer including driving them) One of the hardest thing to do is throw something like oil away you are not sure of. There is something innately ingrained in our mental process not to throw things away that "might" be good. The best approach is to think of the consequence vs any possible gain. A few rounds gets you nothing, a blown up case can get you a damaged you or gun or both, crudded chamber. I have dumped some 5 gallons buckets of oil I could not conclusively prove had not been contaminated . Trust me, its tough, but I was fortunate in my approach was, what is a few gallons of oil vs damaging an entire engine and the overhaul costs? my job? and out of service impact? I had a guy who did not want to dispose of 5 gallons of diesel (old and cruddy and we had a method to easily do so) so he dumped it into one of my 500 gallon tanks. In the end we had to pump out 300 gallons of fuel, remove the pump and all the ports and fittings, send it out to get steam cleaned. He was gone and I got to enjoy a long summers work off and on. The only good part was I picked the nice days I could work (I had reserved file inside so I was ok) - the bad part it was on the North side of the building and shaded and a tad windy. It cost the company 5 grand or so. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

January 31, 2018, 04:01 PM	#7
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	The tealish powdery substance is copper oxide. It's the copper coming out of the alloy. Your stuff doesn't look entirely terrible. I've seen worse. Use 0000 steel wool to take it off and do a really close case inspection. Probably best to pull the bullets and pitch 'em though. "....30-40 is starting to become hen's teeth..." Worse than that. It's only loaded and made at all "seasonally" by Remington and Winchester with no mention by anybody when or what season it might be. However, Midway is showing Hornady Custom brand 180 grain SP ammo as being on Backorder OK. Also says it's over due though. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

January 30, 2018, 07:49 PM	#2
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	I would not shoot it. Sometimes when powder gets old,the chemicals released eats brass. I'm not an expert,but I'd guess the green is mostly copper.Where did it come from? I'm thinking the brass that the copper left is not the same anymore. Remember the brass is all that keeps about 40,000 psi of hot gas from blowing your stock to splinters and modifying your face and eyeballs. Good news is Hornady is making brass for 30-40. You can probably order it today from Midway or Graf's or Natchez. Its roughly $35 for 50 pieces.

January 30, 2018, 09:28 PM	#5
Pathfinder45 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 3,224	Yeah, if that's corrosion leaking through from the inside, then only the bullets are worth salvaging. If it's from contact with leather or what-have-you, that is, only outside verdigris, then perhaps some of the cases may also be salvageable. But don't risk life-and-limb trying to shoot it. I have bought worse looking ammo simply because it had bullets of interest that I wanted to remount on good cases with fresh powder and primers. If cases look good, inside and out, I will run them through the case polisher along with the bullets and re-use them. Sometimes I will weigh and inspect the powder charges to satisfy my curiosity, but no matter how good it looks, the powder always gets replaced with fresh, primers, too, while I'm at it. I've dismantled some ammo that looked good on the outside, but alarming on the inside. By the way, I have to say that Slamfire has an excellent, informative post.

January 31, 2018, 06:41 PM	#9
1940izhevsk Member Join Date: July 5, 2016 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 59	Pulled a couple bullets, everything looks fine. No visible corrosion on case or projectile. __________________ What does unburnt powder smell like? Pepper. What does burnt powder smell like? Awesome!

January 31, 2018, 07:14 PM	#10
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	" season" ?? Get the story right !! The British Army in India found corrosion I the wet season of India but not in the dry season ! The wet season brought rain and thunderstorms. The lightning in those storms created ammonia compounds which were corrosive .In the making of the cases stresses were introduced . That whole process is what we metallurgists call "tress-Corrosion-Cracking" That problem is now eliminated by annealing the cases. Deterioration of the powder is another cause of corrosion , nicely photo'd in the thread. While light corrosion is mostly just a visual thing it can be polished off. Similar corrosion occurs when ammo is stored in a leather ammo belt. Clean off the corrosion but if there is any pitting discard the case. __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

January 31, 2018, 09:53 PM	#11
gw44 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2015 Location: Michigan Posts: 311	You can still buy 30-40 ammo it is not that hard to find, my son hand loads for his he never has trouble getting brass !!!

January 31, 2018, 10:09 PM	#12
gw44 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2015 Location: Michigan Posts: 311	I just checked and you can get all you want at Midwayusa $33.95 a box !!!

February 1, 2018, 09:34 AM	#13
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,242	You can also make brass from .303 Brit case's fairly easy and cheaply. I don't trust ammo that there are any questions about, pull the bullets dump the powder, spray WD40 inside the case to kill the primers. Then inspect everything and decide what is safe to reuse upon a complete and thorough inspection of everything. Graf & Sons .30-40 Brass __________________ NRA Life Member Last edited by taylorce1; February 1, 2018 at 09:48 AM.

February 2, 2018, 03:11 PM	#14
1940izhevsk Member Join Date: July 5, 2016 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 59	@mete, the ammo has been stored in a leather ammo pouch for some time, so you're right on the corrosion due to leather storage. All the cases look fine, pretty much zero pitting on the cases. __________________ What does unburnt powder smell like? Pepper. What does burnt powder smell like? Awesome!

February 4, 2018, 01:33 PM	#15
1940izhevsk Member Join Date: July 5, 2016 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 59	Went to the range yesterday, shot the Krag, no issues with ammo. That Krag was a dream to shoot, loved every shot. __________________ What does unburnt powder smell like? Pepper. What does burnt powder smell like? Awesome!