Age old debate based on opinion. - Page 2

reinert · January 18, 2018, 10:22 AM

The opening post, then post #3, and then post #5 pretty much sums up "to the point" as good as a thread can get (IMO). Good, respectful and courteous all around. I do agree with you, Lefteye, even though I don't have a .270 in my arsenal. I do believe you're spot on with the OP's question.

SPMcfly, FWIW, If I didn't already have three '06s, one of those could have easily been a .270; just a little hindsight there... I do have a .223 bolt gun too, and really like it. I live in Wyoming, and the 30-06, along with the .223 will do any and everything I need personally in the field. The .223 is a legal caliber for deer here, too, as long as one uses a 60grn. bullet (minimum) in a round. Very accurate, very versatile, very economic (especially being a re-loader) and always a whole lot of fun to shoot.

Lohman446 · January 18, 2018, 11:06 AM

Quote:

308 win, .300 win mag, .270 win, or 30-06?

The differences in the .308, 30-06, and .270 are academic. I would call all of them suitable for taking any game in North America and all of them to be pushing the envelope of reason in regards to varmint - but there is no doubt they will take varmint.

The difference in performance for the .300 is a bit more pronounced then between the other three but for the vast majority of people its theoretical because they will never be shooting game that size at the ranges the .300 holds an advantage at. Further two of the factors you discuss (recoil and cost) surely do not hold in favor of the .300.

For an experienced shooter within 500 yards shooting game animals in North America? The answer is yes to any of those cartridges. It is unlikely said shooter will actually notice the difference.

Don Fischer · January 18, 2018, 12:49 PM

Give a highly trained shooter in long range a 300 mag and a 260 Rem and if it's in the rifle's, he'll shoot one as well as the other.

Picher · January 18, 2018, 05:17 PM

At 16, I only owned one rifle, bought for deer hunting, a Savage 110, 30/06 with a 2.5X Weaver scope. Hadn't intended to hunt woodchucks and crows at the time, but was invited to do so by a friend who was a couple of years older.

I managed to shoot woodchucks at ranges over 200 yards, one at about 500 yards. We handloaded 125 grain Sierra bullets on a friend's Lyman Jr. press.

After several years, I decided to sell the Savage, which, at the time had a Bishop stock that I'd finished in a Weatherby style, and it shot really well.

A few years later, I decided to sell the '06 and buy a .22-250 because deer were scarce and I hunted more varmints than deer, never having shot a deer at that point. First fall with the .22-250, I shot a deer with it. Who'd a thunk that?

If I'd bought a .243 Win as a combination caliber, I'd probably have been much better off.

fourbore · January 18, 2018, 05:24 PM

In these days the question is seldom asked and really makes little sense. You can buy a 308 or 30-06 for black bear, moose or similar size game. If you shoot 40 or 50 bear a year, ammo cost might favor the 308

Also for target and practice the 308 is lowest cost in class.

You can kill a deer with anything so it does not matter. Same for coyote.

I dont know what is meant by varmint, but assuming you had a 30 caliber, then a 243 winchester might make sense for deer and smaller varmint. Or hunt deer with the 30 caliber and get a 223 for the smaller rifle. Again, for ammo the 223 is most plentiful and price right.

Two guns easy.

If I lived in some imaginary fantasy land of just one rifle for the game listed, I would opt for the 6.5x55 with a barrel that would handle up to 160 grain bullets.

I also like the 7mm-08 as a catch all gun. But, if you really think about it almost any medium bore high power rifle cartridge would work. In a pinch, I would be hard press to argue any round based on 308 or 30-06 case necked up or down could not make due. To be anywhere near optimum, in this century, its a 2 rifle minimum.

disseminator · January 18, 2018, 07:56 PM

#1 choice: 308 Winchester
#2 choice: 7mm08 Remington

The 308 has a few hundred more foot pounds in the first 500 yards but they are pretty much equal after that. Either one has more than enough power to take a Deer well past 500 yards and the 308 can handle the moose and bears to about 400.

If you do YOUR part of course.

;-)

3Crows · January 18, 2018, 08:17 PM

Partial to the .270.

But, what the heck, the only government a man needs, 45-70. And a good range finder. When in doubt, bring the Hammer of Thor

.

bamaranger · January 19, 2018, 01:58 AM

To answer your question bluntly.......none of your choices offer a viable option.

One rifle/cartridge to shoot 500 pound bears (that would be a big blackie I know) and 5 pound prairie dogs? And some guys are talking elk in this post as well?

Big game rifles are for big game, varmint rifles for varmints. The .243 Win has been touted as a dual purpose cartridge, but is a little much for most varminting and a little light for big game, by some folks opinion. The current love affair with the 6.5 CRM, and the abandoned .260 may come as close as the
"new" dual purpose round as we've been.

Who really uses ONE rifle for everything anyhow?

Danoobie · January 19, 2018, 07:40 AM

I like 30.06, gives you many reloading options, including 110 grain barrel
burners for varmints.

Don Fischer · January 19, 2018, 12:48 PM

Any more any one of those choices will work fine. Reason being the bullet's of today really might make difference, hate to admit that. But a 30-06 with a 180gr TSX, if they make it, will kill a rock chuck just fine as far away as you can hit it. Do they make a 100gr TSX in 243? If so I would think it will penetrate and kill big game farther than we should be shooting. It is about bullet's and placement!

ejb69 · January 20, 2018, 07:55 AM

If I was limited to one rifle it would be a 30-06, a rem 7600 pump.

Buzzcook · January 20, 2018, 01:38 PM

You're much more likely to find a varmint rifle in .308 than the others.

Picher · January 21, 2018, 01:01 PM

Deer and other animals at 500 yards requires a laser rangefinder to determine the exact distance, and a chart of the ballistics of the particular cartridge/bullet used. The other thing needed, is TIME to use them. Where I like to hunt, we're on a woods road that allows shooting deer out to nearly 500 yards, but rarely the TIME to use a rangefinder or ballistics chart. We get about 5-15 seconds to sight and make a shot, so need to set up our rifles to maximize point-blank range. I don't need to hold over the kill zone out to 325 yards with my .270 Win. Then, hold just below the spine out to about 375. Beyond that, I don't shoot, since I can't accurately estimate the distance and the bullet drops fast.

langenc · January 22, 2018, 08:40 PM

I suspect around here 95% of bears are killed LESS than 100 yards-probably less than 75 yards.

L2R · January 22, 2018, 08:50 PM

I understand that money is often a limiting factor but finding a caliber that works for everything is like finding a golf club that drives, chips and putts but I still want to get a good golf score.

I suggest you prioritize what you need most and go get a rifle that works very well for one or two tasks. Save up, do research and pick the next one to perform another niche. In time, you will have good tools and you will be happy with them. Buying a gun to do all things ok, just means you may never be totally happy with any aspect of it.

Grandpa used to say that something good for everything is usually good for nothing.

gw44 · January 23, 2018, 07:07 PM

I am not a bear hunter but I have friends that do, all but one use a 308-180gr bullet !!!

jackstrawIII · January 27, 2018, 08:56 PM

Quote:

MO,the question is blown with the 500 yd requirement. Where does that come from? Don't get me wrong,the right shooter can use a .308 effectively at 500yds,but lets get real.

Yeah, drop that down to a 250 yard limit (the absolute reasonable/ethical limit for 99.999% of hunters) and then we can have a conversation. In that case, if I was actually going to be hunting Elk on a regular basis, I'd go with the 30-06. If mostly deer, the 270 or 308. Probably would choose the 308 if push came to shove.

Basically, anything but the 300 Win Mag haha.

January 18, 2018, 05:24 PM	#30
fourbore Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2015 Location: new england Posts: 1,159	In these days the question is seldom asked and really makes little sense. You can buy a 308 or 30-06 for black bear, moose or similar size game. If you shoot 40 or 50 bear a year, ammo cost might favor the 308 Also for target and practice the 308 is lowest cost in class. You can kill a deer with anything so it does not matter. Same for coyote. I dont know what is meant by varmint, but assuming you had a 30 caliber, then a 243 winchester might make sense for deer and smaller varmint. Or hunt deer with the 30 caliber and get a 223 for the smaller rifle. Again, for ammo the 223 is most plentiful and price right. Two guns easy. If I lived in some imaginary fantasy land of just one rifle for the game listed, I would opt for the 6.5x55 with a barrel that would handle up to 160 grain bullets. I also like the 7mm-08 as a catch all gun. But, if you really think about it almost any medium bore high power rifle cartridge would work. In a pinch, I would be hard press to argue any round based on 308 or 30-06 case necked up or down could not make due. To be anywhere near optimum, in this century, its a 2 rifle minimum. Last edited by fourbore; January 18, 2018 at 05:34 PM.

January 19, 2018, 01:58 AM	#33
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,300	range To answer your question bluntly.......none of your choices offer a viable option. One rifle/cartridge to shoot 500 pound bears (that would be a big blackie I know) and 5 pound prairie dogs? And some guys are talking elk in this post as well? Big game rifles are for big game, varmint rifles for varmints. The .243 Win has been touted as a dual purpose cartridge, but is a little much for most varminting and a little light for big game, by some folks opinion. The current love affair with the 6.5 CRM, and the abandoned .260 may come as close as the "new" dual purpose round as we've been. Who really uses ONE rifle for everything anyhow?

January 22, 2018, 08:50 PM	#40
L2R Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2010 Location: North Carolina Posts: 358	I understand that money is often a limiting factor but finding a caliber that works for everything is like finding a golf club that drives, chips and putts but I still want to get a good golf score. I suggest you prioritize what you need most and go get a rifle that works very well for one or two tasks. Save up, do research and pick the next one to perform another niche. In time, you will have good tools and you will be happy with them. Buying a gun to do all things ok, just means you may never be totally happy with any aspect of it. Grandpa used to say that something good for everything is usually good for nothing. __________________ L2R

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January 18, 2018, 10:22 AM	#26
reinert Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 646	The opening post, then post #3, and then post #5 pretty much sums up "to the point" as good as a thread can get (IMO). Good, respectful and courteous all around. I do agree with you, Lefteye, even though I don't have a .270 in my arsenal. I do believe you're spot on with the OP's question. SPMcfly, FWIW, If I didn't already have three '06s, one of those could have easily been a .270; just a little hindsight there... I do have a .223 bolt gun too, and really like it. I live in Wyoming, and the 30-06, along with the .223 will do any and everything I need personally in the field. The .223 is a legal caliber for deer here, too, as long as one uses a 60grn. bullet (minimum) in a round. Very accurate, very versatile, very economic (especially being a re-loader) and always a whole lot of fun to shoot.

January 18, 2018, 12:49 PM	#28
Don Fischer Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2017 Posts: 1,868	Give a highly trained shooter in long range a 300 mag and a 260 Rem and if it's in the rifle's, he'll shoot one as well as the other.

January 18, 2018, 05:17 PM	#29
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,694	At 16, I only owned one rifle, bought for deer hunting, a Savage 110, 30/06 with a 2.5X Weaver scope. Hadn't intended to hunt woodchucks and crows at the time, but was invited to do so by a friend who was a couple of years older. I managed to shoot woodchucks at ranges over 200 yards, one at about 500 yards. We handloaded 125 grain Sierra bullets on a friend's Lyman Jr. press. After several years, I decided to sell the Savage, which, at the time had a Bishop stock that I'd finished in a Weatherby style, and it shot really well. A few years later, I decided to sell the '06 and buy a .22-250 because deer were scarce and I hunted more varmints than deer, never having shot a deer at that point. First fall with the .22-250, I shot a deer with it. Who'd a thunk that? If I'd bought a .243 Win as a combination caliber, I'd probably have been much better off.

January 18, 2018, 07:56 PM	#31
disseminator Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2016 Location: Minnesota Posts: 960	#1 choice: 308 Winchester #2 choice: 7mm08 Remington The 308 has a few hundred more foot pounds in the first 500 yards but they are pretty much equal after that. Either one has more than enough power to take a Deer well past 500 yards and the 308 can handle the moose and bears to about 400. If you do YOUR part of course. ;-)

January 18, 2018, 08:17 PM	#32
3Crows Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2017 Location: Wichita, Kansas Posts: 220	Partial to the .270. But, what the heck, the only government a man needs, 45-70. And a good range finder. When in doubt, bring the Hammer of Thor .

January 19, 2018, 07:40 AM	#34
Danoobie Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2017 Posts: 351	I like 30.06, gives you many reloading options, including 110 grain barrel burners for varmints.

January 19, 2018, 12:48 PM	#35
Don Fischer Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2017 Posts: 1,868	Any more any one of those choices will work fine. Reason being the bullet's of today really might make difference, hate to admit that. But a 30-06 with a 180gr TSX, if they make it, will kill a rock chuck just fine as far away as you can hit it. Do they make a 100gr TSX in 243? If so I would think it will penetrate and kill big game farther than we should be shooting. It is about bullet's and placement!

January 20, 2018, 07:55 AM	#36
ejb69 Member Join Date: January 3, 2013 Posts: 49	If I was limited to one rifle it would be a 30-06, a rem 7600 pump.

January 20, 2018, 01:38 PM	#37
Buzzcook Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2007 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 6,126	You're much more likely to find a varmint rifle in .308 than the others.

January 21, 2018, 01:01 PM	#38
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,694	Deer and other animals at 500 yards requires a laser rangefinder to determine the exact distance, and a chart of the ballistics of the particular cartridge/bullet used. The other thing needed, is TIME to use them. Where I like to hunt, we're on a woods road that allows shooting deer out to nearly 500 yards, but rarely the TIME to use a rangefinder or ballistics chart. We get about 5-15 seconds to sight and make a shot, so need to set up our rifles to maximize point-blank range. I don't need to hold over the kill zone out to 325 yards with my .270 Win. Then, hold just below the spine out to about 375. Beyond that, I don't shoot, since I can't accurately estimate the distance and the bullet drops fast.

January 22, 2018, 08:40 PM	#39
langenc Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2007 Location: Montmorency Co, MI Posts: 1,551	I suspect around here 95% of bears are killed LESS than 100 yards-probably less than 75 yards.

January 23, 2018, 07:07 PM	#41
gw44 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2015 Location: Michigan Posts: 311	I am not a bear hunter but I have friends that do, all but one use a 308-180gr bullet !!!