Offset iron sights, folding or fixed?

Shadow9mm · March 19, 2023, 12:43 PM

So I am looking to get a set of offset iron sights for my AR. I am debating on whether I want back up style flip ups, or a fixed style like the Surefire Rapid Transition.

My LPVO is using a fixed mount. I don't want to use a QD mount. I plan to practice with my irons regularly, and I don't want to be taking the LPVO on and off and having to confirm zero regularly. I know there is supposed to be zero shift, but I don't trust it.

I want something that does not take batteries, and using irons helps me maintain my fundamentals. I also want it for quick transitions not just in the event my optic does down. I also like that the surefire set has the elevation knob and dual sized Aperture . I'm just worried it will be big and clunky and in the way. With folding sights I could fold them for storage, or as needed during practice. but just extend them and leave them up if I needed to use the rifle.

Is anyone running offset irons regularly or in competition? What is you experience with offset irons? is there anything I am failing to account for considering I have never used this type of setup?

Metal god · March 19, 2023, 03:04 PM

I have a 45* offset flip up sights on my LPVO . I bought a less expensive brand made in USA that seem to work just fine . I like quickly transitioning back and forth every few shots as a practice drill . The one draw back my set has is they hang up on anything that gets close to them . Slings and case straps the most . Right now my jury is still out on my set . I think at some point I’ll switch to a micro pistol sized red dot that has long battery life . For now at the range the off set irons are OK I guess .

That all I may just go with a QD scope mount with traditional back up irons because I don’t really want the irons for every day use but rather when and if my optic fails . If the optic fails I wouldn’t care about loosing zero seeing how a failed optic has no zero .

Shadow9mm · March 19, 2023, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal god

I have a 45* offset flip up sights on my LPVO . I bought a less expensive brand made in USA that seem to work just fine . I like quickly transitioning back and forth every few shots as a practice drill . The one draw back my set has is they hang up on anything that gets close to them . Slings and case straps the most . Right now my jury is still out on my set . I think at some point I’ll switch to a micro pistol sized red dot that has long battery life . For now at the range the off set irons are OK I guess .

That all I may just go with a QD scope mount with traditional back up irons because I don’t really want the irons for every day use but rather when and if my optic fails . If the optic fails I wouldn’t care about loosing zero seeing how a failed optic has no zero .

Which ones did you get? all the reputable ones I am finding are in the $180 and up range. unless you count the ones off amazon intended for airsoft.

Recycled bullet · March 19, 2023, 08:45 PM

What is the maximum number of simultaneous sighting systems you have run on one rifle and were they all calibrated with the same loading and zero?

Shadow9mm · March 19, 2023, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Recycled bullet

What is the maximum number of simultaneous sighting systems you have run on one rifle and were they all calibrated with the same loading and zero?

At this point 1. Unless you count shooting backup sights through a co witnessed red dot. Both were zeroed the same. Idea being if the battery died i had a backup. but I also could practice with my irons that way.

I guess its more of a debate between backups, or a 2nd simultaneous system. Would the 2nd system get in the way any more than backups? would there be an advantage to having a 2nd system for quick transitions instead of just backup since the cost i about the same. or do i use backups as the simultaneous system and deploy as needed. The fixed system does add some features and might be more durable.

Trying to think through it.

Recycled bullet · March 19, 2023, 09:56 PM

The folding sights are nice in that they don't chew up the inside of the gun case/gun bag when folded in/down.

I agree with metal god about the micro red dot sights.

I've been looking at the micro holosun sights to make an ultra light feather weight 308 bolt rifle. The decent ones seem to be starting between two to three hundred dollars.

Shot some groups with a hell cat pro / shield sms red dot and to be square the irons shot faster and smaller group for me. I think I just didn't like that particular red dot.

I do like what holosun is doing with the mid tier chinesium optics.

maybe one of these would work better?? I don't know.

I have one of their green dots and it gets switched between rifles like musical chairs.

I like how light and durable it is and seems well put together and hold up to the 308 better than I do.

I've seen the plastic sights made by Magpul they seemed nice in my hand I've never shot with them though so could go either way.

It's this for gun games and speed shooting or a more serious or a specialized role or tool?

Would a Leupold 1-4 for example as a main sight and a green laser on the side make up the difference? Green laser dots are visible in daylight and are fantastic in the dark with the visible beam.

What kind of scope have you got installed and why do you think it will break?

I do not own an auto loader rifle but have played some with Troy metal folding sights on an ar15 owned by a shooting range. They did not get in the way when folded down and worked easily when up. The sight picture with the diamonds shaped apertures was fast and easy to use.

Most of what I do is target shooting at paper plates so it's very likely our rifle needs are very different.

I had a funny imagination with the last post
I think it was of a rifle covered in rails

and each rail had iron sights, scopes, red dots, green dots, multiple reticle sights,back ups,
lasers in different wavelengths and flashlights mounted,

probably need brakes and back up lamps and turn signals and side mirrors and yearly safety inspections while we are at it,

presumably sighted to a particular load at a specific distance, there could be a real purpose but the weight and aesthetic penalty would be obscene.

I found this video on YouTube by a guy called mister guns and gear he shows forty five degree off set sights in use maybe the video helps?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CrKPEgcS1zQ

Nathan · March 19, 2023, 10:27 PM

If I were running an LPVO, I think I would run a rds on one of those 45 deg mounts. Fast transition without as much stick out factor.

tangolima · March 19, 2023, 10:37 PM

The backup sight is for occasion that the lpvo goes totally kaput; fogs up, covered with mug, painted over with paint etc. Being a non-combatant that sort of occasions should be really rare. Nothing wrong to prepare for it though.

It must be emergency situation. The target must be close, say less than 50yd. The mlok forearm has a groove in 45 degree position. I just use it as a rudimentary sight. With practice I can hit a torso sized target, similar to a shotgun.

I have a cheap plastic flip-up set, possibly for airsoft. I tried them and am not sure I want to keep them on. Part of the reason is that I have a side charger. I can't put the rear sight in the normal place, close to my eye, or it gets in the way of the charging handle.

If I have to choose, I will pick the flip-up. Less chance to snag on things. Good thing to be ready for lpvo to go out. But 24/7 sort of readiness may be too ... overthinking.

BTW, I quite like the side charger. This one is actually a dual charger. Even better.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Metal god · March 19, 2023, 11:11 PM

I don’t remember the brand , next time I’m in the safe I’ll take a look . I use the Primary Arms 1-6 on a 18” barreled upper with rifle length gas . Smoothest shooter I’ve ever fired , barely more recoil then a 22lr . I may be changing that whole set up though. I may change that upper and lower to a high power scoped set up with fully adjustable fixed stock . In that case I’d just throw some MBUS on it .

stagpanther · March 20, 2023, 03:19 AM

I used to have lots of the plastic flips as back ups more for looks than actual utility, eventually got changed to fixed quality metal irons co-witnessed to the primary optic on the one or two AR's that I actually use them on. Burris RT3 pretty much does it all for me and keeps my AR's light and clean.

jetinteriorguy · March 20, 2023, 06:05 AM

I have flip up sights cowitnessed with my red dot. Fold them when not needed and flip up for emergency. I also sometimes use the front sight only with the dot for faster acquisition, at least for me this helps sometimes in poor light.

Destructo6 · March 20, 2023, 08:17 AM

Been using the Magpul folding offset irons for the last couple of years on my 3G AR and work AR.

I have found that the rear sight, when folded, butts right against the right side of the charging handle. It's not a problem once folded up.

They work very well in competition when zoomed in for 300 yard targets at a couple of positions and a bunch of 10 yard targets in between.

As with anything you add to gun or gear: practice with it.

Shadow9mm · March 20, 2023, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destructo6

Been using the Magpul folding offset irons for the last couple of years on my 3G AR and work AR.

I have found that the rear sight, when folded, butts right against the right side of the charging handle. It's not a problem once folded up.

They work very well in competition when zoomed in for 300 yard targets at a couple of positions and a bunch of 10 yard targets in between.

As with anything you add to gun or gear: practice with it.

I take it they have held up well? Always kinda worried backup sights were meant for regular use and would not hold up yo regular use well.

Shadow9mm · March 20, 2023, 12:40 PM

Ok, i order a cheap $35 set off Amazon to play with, a nock off of the surefires. Just want to get the feel of things before i drop $200 on the surefires.

Talked to magpul. They advised there's are meant for backup not full time use. So my thinking is fixed, as most backups are probably not meant for full time use.

One other note. Magpul mentioned an issue shooting off side/left side with offset mounts as they are for right side use only.

Looking forward to playing with the cheap set to see how it works.

jonnyc · March 21, 2023, 07:24 PM

I have 45s on one of my Blackouts, no room for co-witness sights. If I have to transition to the 45s it will have to be quick and sudden, so I opted for fixed.

March 19, 2023, 12:43 PM	#1
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,973	Offset iron sights, folding or fixed? So I am looking to get a set of offset iron sights for my AR. I am debating on whether I want back up style flip ups, or a fixed style like the Surefire Rapid Transition. My LPVO is using a fixed mount. I don't want to use a QD mount. I plan to practice with my irons regularly, and I don't want to be taking the LPVO on and off and having to confirm zero regularly. I know there is supposed to be zero shift, but I don't trust it. I want something that does not take batteries, and using irons helps me maintain my fundamentals. I also want it for quick transitions not just in the event my optic does down. I also like that the surefire set has the elevation knob and dual sized Aperture . I'm just worried it will be big and clunky and in the way. With folding sights I could fold them for storage, or as needed during practice. but just extend them and leave them up if I needed to use the rifle. Is anyone running offset irons regularly or in competition? What is you experience with offset irons? is there anything I am failing to account for considering I have never used this type of setup? __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

March 19, 2023, 03:04 PM	#2
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,876	I have a 45* offset flip up sights on my LPVO . I bought a less expensive brand made in USA that seem to work just fine . I like quickly transitioning back and forth every few shots as a practice drill . The one draw back my set has is they hang up on anything that gets close to them . Slings and case straps the most . Right now my jury is still out on my set . I think at some point I’ll switch to a micro pistol sized red dot that has long battery life . For now at the range the off set irons are OK I guess . That all I may just go with a QD scope mount with traditional back up irons because I don’t really want the irons for every day use but rather when and if my optic fails . If the optic fails I wouldn’t care about loosing zero seeing how a failed optic has no zero . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

March 19, 2023, 11:11 PM	#9
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,876	I don’t remember the brand , next time I’m in the safe I’ll take a look . I use the Primary Arms 1-6 on a 18” barreled upper with rifle length gas . Smoothest shooter I’ve ever fired , barely more recoil then a 22lr . I may be changing that whole set up though. I may change that upper and lower to a high power scoped set up with fully adjustable fixed stock . In that case I’d just throw some MBUS on it . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

March 20, 2023, 03:19 AM	#10
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,784	I used to have lots of the plastic flips as back ups more for looks than actual utility, eventually got changed to fixed quality metal irons co-witnessed to the primary optic on the one or two AR's that I actually use them on. Burris RT3 pretty much does it all for me and keeps my AR's light and clean. __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!* Last edited by stagpanther; March 20, 2023 at 03:26 AM.

March 20, 2023, 08:17 AM	#12
Destructo6 Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 1999 Location: Nogales, AZ USA Posts: 4,000	Been using the Magpul folding offset irons for the last couple of years on my 3G AR and work AR. I have found that the rear sight, when folded, butts right against the right side of the charging handle. It's not a problem once folded up. They work very well in competition when zoomed in for 300 yard targets at a couple of positions and a bunch of 10 yard targets in between. As with anything you add to gun or gear: practice with it. __________________ God gave you a soul. Your parents, a body. Your country, a rifle. Keep all of them clean.

March 19, 2023, 08:45 PM	#4
Recycled bullet Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2022 Posts: 341	What is the maximum number of simultaneous sighting systems you have run on one rifle and were they all calibrated with the same loading and zero?

March 19, 2023, 09:56 PM	#6
Recycled bullet Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2022 Posts: 341	The folding sights are nice in that they don't chew up the inside of the gun case/gun bag when folded in/down. I agree with metal god about the micro red dot sights. I've been looking at the micro holosun sights to make an ultra light feather weight 308 bolt rifle. The decent ones seem to be starting between two to three hundred dollars. Shot some groups with a hell cat pro / shield sms red dot and to be square the irons shot faster and smaller group for me. I think I just didn't like that particular red dot. I do like what holosun is doing with the mid tier chinesium optics. maybe one of these would work better?? I don't know. I have one of their green dots and it gets switched between rifles like musical chairs. I like how light and durable it is and seems well put together and hold up to the 308 better than I do. I've seen the plastic sights made by Magpul they seemed nice in my hand I've never shot with them though so could go either way. It's this for gun games and speed shooting or a more serious or a specialized role or tool? Would a Leupold 1-4 for example as a main sight and a green laser on the side make up the difference? Green laser dots are visible in daylight and are fantastic in the dark with the visible beam. What kind of scope have you got installed and why do you think it will break? I do not own an auto loader rifle but have played some with Troy metal folding sights on an ar15 owned by a shooting range. They did not get in the way when folded down and worked easily when up. The sight picture with the diamonds shaped apertures was fast and easy to use. Most of what I do is target shooting at paper plates so it's very likely our rifle needs are very different. I had a funny imagination with the last post I think it was of a rifle covered in rails and each rail had iron sights, scopes, red dots, green dots, multiple reticle sights,back ups, lasers in different wavelengths and flashlights mounted, probably need brakes and back up lamps and turn signals and side mirrors and yearly safety inspections while we are at it, presumably sighted to a particular load at a specific distance, there could be a real purpose but the weight and aesthetic penalty would be obscene. I found this video on YouTube by a guy called mister guns and gear he shows forty five degree off set sights in use maybe the video helps? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CrKPEgcS1zQ

March 19, 2023, 10:27 PM	#7
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,331	If I were running an LPVO, I think I would run a rds on one of those 45 deg mounts. Fast transition without as much stick out factor.

March 19, 2023, 10:37 PM	#8
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,824	The backup sight is for occasion that the lpvo goes totally kaput; fogs up, covered with mug, painted over with paint etc. Being a non-combatant that sort of occasions should be really rare. Nothing wrong to prepare for it though. It must be emergency situation. The target must be close, say less than 50yd. The mlok forearm has a groove in 45 degree position. I just use it as a rudimentary sight. With practice I can hit a torso sized target, similar to a shotgun. I have a cheap plastic flip-up set, possibly for airsoft. I tried them and am not sure I want to keep them on. Part of the reason is that I have a side charger. I can't put the rear sight in the normal place, close to my eye, or it gets in the way of the charging handle. If I have to choose, I will pick the flip-up. Less chance to snag on things. Good thing to be ready for lpvo to go out. But 24/7 sort of readiness may be too ... overthinking. BTW, I quite like the side charger. This one is actually a dual charger. Even better. -TL Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

March 20, 2023, 06:05 AM	#11
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,175	I have flip up sights cowitnessed with my red dot. Fold them when not needed and flip up for emergency. I also sometimes use the front sight only with the dot for faster acquisition, at least for me this helps sometimes in poor light.

March 20, 2023, 12:40 PM	#14
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,973	Ok, i order a cheap $35 set off Amazon to play with, a nock off of the surefires. Just want to get the feel of things before i drop $200 on the surefires. Talked to magpul. They advised there's are meant for backup not full time use. So my thinking is fixed, as most backups are probably not meant for full time use. One other note. Magpul mentioned an issue shooting off side/left side with offset mounts as they are for right side use only. Looking forward to playing with the cheap set to see how it works. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload. Last edited by Shadow9mm; March 20, 2023 at 02:25 PM.

March 21, 2023, 07:24 PM	#15
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	I have 45s on one of my Blackouts, no room for co-witness sights. If I have to transition to the 45s it will have to be quick and sudden, so I opted for fixed. __________________ 2024 PA Cartridge Collector Show; Aug. 16-17, 2024!!! Buy...Sell...Trade All Types of Ammunition & Ordnance PM or email me for 2024 show details.