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Old February 5, 2017, 01:33 PM   #1
MCPORet
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Smith and Wesson 38 Short

I recently obtained a Smith and Wesson from my father when he passed away. It was his "second gun" as a police officer. Have no idea how old it is - a minimum of 25 years for sure. The serial number on the butt of the grip is 32734 - I know it is a 38 short as he still had a box of shells - question is should I keep it or trade for another revolver. My wife and I both have concealed permits in Florida and I need to find one for her if I keep this one. Any info would be appreciated. Tks Bill
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Old February 5, 2017, 04:22 PM   #2
Driftwood Johnson
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Howdy

Unfortunately, more information is needed to answer your question. Does the cylinder for the revolver swing out to the left for loading, or does the frame break open at the top? How many chambers (shots) are in the cylinder? You say the Serial Number on the butt is 32734? Or is the dash you typed after the SN a place holder for another digit?

There is no such thing as the 38 Short cartridge. I suspect what you are talking about is the 38 S&W cartridge, which is a shorter cartridge than the 38 Special. The 38 S&W bullet is slightly larger in diameter than 38 Special, so in most cases a revolver chambered for 38 Special will not accept the 38 S&W cartridge.

If a cartridge is called out on the barrel, exactly what does it say? If it says 38 S&W CTG, the gun is chambered for the 38 S&W cartridge. Revolvers made by Smith and Wesson and chambered for the 38 Special cartridge will always say 38 S&W SPECIAL CTG on the barrel. CTG is simply an abbreviation for cartridge.

If the SN is truly 32734, the gun was made in 1902 or 1903. But that is assuming it is six shot, K frame 38, and these were not chambered for the 38 S&W cartridge. I suspect this may not be the case.

A clear, well focused photograph would go a long way towards giving you a positive ID of the gun.

In this photo, a 38 S&W cartridge is on the left, a 38 Special is on the right.

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Old February 5, 2017, 04:50 PM   #3
MCPORet
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Thanks for the reply.

The frame breaks open at the top.

It holds 5 shots

The cartridge on the left is the one that works.

There is a number on the chamber is the same as the butt.

On top of the barrel reads "Smith and Wesson Springfield MA US Patent ........ly 11 ........rest is worn.

Working on getting a picture..

Bill
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Old February 5, 2017, 05:37 PM   #4
sgms
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OK it being a top break helps some. But with out looking in any of my S&W books I can think of 6 different top breaks in .38 S&W with 2,3,or 4 models in each group. So please keep trying with the picture.
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Old February 5, 2017, 05:43 PM   #5
Bob Wright
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Driftwood:
Quote:
There is no such thing as the 38 Short cartridge.

My friend, I beg to differ. There is the .38 Short Colt. This is still loaded, and has the very pointed, heel crimped bullet.

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Old February 5, 2017, 05:45 PM   #6
MCPORet
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S & W

Here are a couple of pictures. As far as how old it might be I have no idea - My
Dad passed away in 1992 and was a police officer back around 1959 - 1962. I picked up the gun when I came back for his funeral - it's been in the holster since in a closet. Even the holster has a number on the back.


Thanks again

Bill
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Old February 5, 2017, 05:45 PM   #7
DPris
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If a topbreak Smith, in .38 S&W, a poor choice as a concealed carry defensive gun, if that's what you're viewing it as.

If it came down from my father, I'd view it as a cherished heirloom & it wouldn't go anywhere, either for carry or for sale.

Up to you.
Denis
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Old February 5, 2017, 05:51 PM   #8
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Thanks Denis - that is where we will go more than likely - just curious more than anything as to any background on that type of pistol.
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Old February 5, 2017, 06:27 PM   #9
laytonj1
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That gun is a whole lot older than you think.
It appears to be a .38 Double Action 2nd Model. Chambering would be 38 S&W.
Serial numbers ran from 4001 in 1880 to 119000 in 1884.

Jim
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Old February 5, 2017, 06:42 PM   #10
ThomasT
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I would love to have that gun or one like it. But I agree about not selling it. Keep it for the memories. My dad died 14 years ago on February 3rd, just two days ago. I have his S&W model 28 highway patrolman. It has never been fired. It will be passed down to one of my sons. It will be up to them to decide who gets it.
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Old February 5, 2017, 06:47 PM   #11
dahermit
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Quote:
My friend, I beg to differ. There is the .38 Short Colt. This is still loaded, and has the very pointed, heel crimped bullet.
I concur... I had an H&R that was chambered in .38 Short Colt many years ago.
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Old February 5, 2017, 08:00 PM   #12
Driftwood Johnson
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Quote:
My friend, I beg to differ. There is the .38 Short Colt. This is still loaded, and has the very pointed, heel crimped bullet.
Oh, I knew as soon as I hit the submit reply button that I was going to be in trouble with that one.

Mea Culpa.

My only excuse is I was pretty sure he was talking about the 38 S&W cartridge. I should have known better to say there is no such thing as the 38 Short, in the back of my mind I knew there was the old 38 Short Colt.

I just dug into my cartridge collection and found a bag with three of them in it. Yup, heeled bullets. Who pray tell is still manufacturing this cartridge? These three are UMC, and the lube in the lube grooves is pretty old and dried out.








This 38 Double Action, 3rd Model shipped in June of 1888.

I concur the OP's 2md Model shipped sometime between 1880 and 1884.

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Old February 5, 2017, 10:27 PM   #13
Bob Wright
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Drift,

Quote:
"...................... Who pray tell is still manufacturing this cartridge? ......"
Last I saw were Remington, plus some of the specialty loaders for Cowboy Action Shooters.

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Old February 6, 2017, 08:31 AM   #14
MCPORet
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FYI Bob you were right - I checked the box I bought and it is labeled 38 short Colt. Might chek with local gun shop on any additional information - wonder if the belt holster with it is also original - everything in excellent shape. Thanks to all

Bill
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Old February 6, 2017, 01:36 PM   #15
Driftwood Johnson
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Howdy Again

I don't know if your Dad tried to fire that 38 Short Colt ammunition in that gun, but it is the wrong cartridge for that gun. Old cartridges can be very confusing.

In this photo, a 38 Short Colt is on the left and a 38 S&W is on the right. If you look closely you will see the bullet of the 38 Short Colt is the same diameter as the cartridge case. That is because it uses a heeled bullet. The 'heel' is a short section of the bullet at the rear that is the same diameter as the inside of the cartridge case. This is an old type of cartridge, the only ammo still commonly made that way anymore is 22 Rimfire ammo.

The 38 S&W uses a more conventional bullet that is the same diameter as the inside of the case for its entire length. You can see the difference. Bottom line is, the bullet on my 38 Short Colt cartridge is .372 in diameter. The bullet of a 38 S&W cartridge is usually more on the order of .360 in diameter. This one happens to be .356.






I just tried to chamber a 38 Short Colt into the S&W 38 Double Action I posted earlier. Because the bullet is too large in diameter, the cartridge will not seat all the way. It bumps into the chamber throat and the cartridge will not seat by about 1/8".

The correct ammunition for that revolver is 38 S&W. As I said before, 38 S&W, not 38 Special. However I will further caution you that I do not recommend firing modern ammunition in a gun that old. Others will disagree with me, but the steel in those old guns is not very strong, and modern Smokeless ammunition creates a pressure spike that the old guns may not be able to withstand.

Best you keep the gun as a memento of your Dad and not try to shoot it.
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Old February 9, 2017, 10:38 AM   #16
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Yes, as everyone says, keep it. Family guns are among the best artifacts of family history. That it was your dad's backup gun is a good part of the story. If your dad just passed, there may be folks around, either other family members or former colleagues, who could tell you more about your dad and his use of guns. This kind of info could be put in a dossier to accompany the gun as you pass it on. Too often when a family gun is passed with no info on why it is important it ends up in a used gun case in a store.
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