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Old February 16, 2009, 06:41 PM   #1
Glenn E. Meyer
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School shooting in PA - with CCW implications

For our info - bad news. See the bold face. The problem is that such a vivid instance can negate a whole set of rational arguments.


February 16, 2009
State Trooper Kills Armed Student After Standoff at Seton Hill U.
State-police officers in Greensburg, Pa., shot to death a student at Seton Hill University early Sunday morning after he threatened his roommates and began firing a rifle out the window of his off-campus home, The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported this morning.

The student, 22-year-old Joe Frederick Briggs, was killed when a state trooper returned fire after a three-hour standoff. The newspaper quoted friends of Mr. Briggs as saying that his behavior was uncharacteristic. The roommates, who fled the house before he started shooting, told the police that he may have been having problems in a relationship. The shooting incident followed a night of drinking at a strip club, they said.

The Post-Gazette also reported that Mr. Briggs, a criminal-justice major, had planned to become a state trooper. The newspaper said his Facebook profile noted that he supported Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, a national organization that seeks to allow students and others who legally own weapons to bring them onto campuses.

During the shootout, the university alerted students by e-mail and text message to stay where they were. Campus buildings were locked down, and the university offered counseling to students. —Andrew Mytelka
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Old February 17, 2009, 02:02 PM   #2
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Unfortunately we have a few nut jobs too. But, it's because of these crazy people that we need CCW. If anybody who is pro-gun is going to do anything stupid I prefer that they commit their crimes without using a gun (be creative) or drop all associations with pro-gun groups.
I'm associated with SCCC and attending a super-hippy college. It's people like this nut who make the rest of us look bad. I guess the only way for us to combat the negative image is to be extra kind and responsible.
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Old February 17, 2009, 02:57 PM   #3
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This happened in my town. Here's the article about the shooting, if anyone is interested.



Police slay Seton Hill student in standoff laced with gunfireBy A.J. Panian and Liz Zemba
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Monday, February 16, 2009


A night of partying at a strip club turned deadly for a Seton Hill University student who police said fired dozens of shots at them during a three-hour standoff on a normally quiet residential street in Greensburg.

Joseph Frederick Briggs, 22, of Concord Avenue, Greensburg, was pronounced dead at 9:17 a.m. Sunday, about five hours after his roommates called city police to report that he had threatened to harm them and himself.

A senior at Seton Hill, Briggs was shot and killed about 7 a.m. in his off-campus apartment by an unidentified state trooper, police said. The officer fired once after Briggs pointed a long-barreled weapon out a window of his residence and shot at a police officer, state police at Greensburg said.


Briggs, who — according to the university — is from Dickerson, Md., had been barricaded inside the house for three hours before the shooting, said Trooper Jeanne Martin, state police spokeswoman. She said Briggs had fired "numerous rounds from a variety of guns" out of the windows of his residence during the standoff, striking parked cars and at least one house.

City police were summoned to the house at 4 a.m. after three men and a woman who fled the residence reported that Briggs had threatened them and himself with guns. Briggs fired out of the residence toward the officers when they arrived, Martin said.

Troopers from the state police's Special Emergency Response Team were called to assist. Martin said at least three nearby residences were evacuated.

Over the next three hours, Briggs broke windows and threw objects out the windows of the house. Martin said he shot at police several dozen times.

"Briggs fired at least 30 to 40 times," Martin said. "When you have that kind of volume of gunfire, we're very lucky that nobody else was hurt."

A neighbor, Bertha Haney of Summit Apartments, said she was awakened to the sound of loud "bangs" at 4 a.m., but she did not recognize them as gunshots. Another neighbor, Chuck Hill, said he was up when the gunfire started but did not leave his apartment until the gunfire stopped.

"This is something else," Hill said last night as he walked past Concord Street, which remained cordoned off with yellow police tape 12 hours after the shooting. "I wonder what would make a guy do that?"

State police said Briggs "may have been having some personal problems in regards to a relationship." He and a roommate had been out drinking Saturday evening at the Filly Corral, a strip club near Smithton.

Briggs, who police said was "heavily intoxicated," began firing a weapon from a car as it traveled along Interstate 70 earlier in the evening, Martin said. A passenger in the car, Briggs was acting irrationally and firing randomly out the car window as the vehicle traveled toward Greensburg, Martin said.

A photo posted to the online social networking site Facebook appears to show Briggs clutching a semiautomatic rifle. Friends in Maryland painted a different picture of the man police said held them at bay with gunfire for three hours.

James Spicer, 21, of Frederick, Md., said Briggs last week treated him to a 21st birthday party.

Steven Eader, 21, of Poolesville, Md., played with Briggs on the Poolesville High School football team. He said Briggs enjoyed weapons shows on the History Channel and wanted to become a police officer. Friends said Briggs was majoring in criminal justice.

"Joe and I have been best friends for a long time," Eader said. "We hunted and fished together a lot. The kid had a heart bigger than this world."

Alice Hardwick, 20, of Poolesville, Md., said she dated Briggs off and on for four years and considered him the love of her life.

"He had a huge heart and he was a great person and he deserves the best," Hardwick said. "I couldn't tell you what was going through his head that night."

Dickerson has a population of slightly fewer than 2,000 and is near Frederick, Md., about 200 miles from Pittsburgh.

Police said they contacted Briggs' friends and relatives as they tried to end the standoff peacefully.

"Attempts to talk to Briggs proved fruitless," Martin said. "It all really became a dangerous situation, especially when you have people in their own homes nearby unaware of what's happening because they are sleeping."

About 7 a.m., Briggs went to a window in a second-floor bedroom and fired a long-barreled weapon toward a police officer, Martin said. Police fired one time, striking Briggs while he was at the window, she said.

"We heard a loud popping sound at that time; it jarred us awake," said Harry Hoffman, who lives with his girlfriend, Krista Ralston, on nearby O'Hara Street.

For an hour after the fatal shot was fired, police continued to try to contact Briggs. Upon entering the residence, they found him unresponsive.

Briggs was pronounced dead by Westmoreland County Deputy Coroner John Ackerman. An autopsy was to be conducted today and the results of toxicology tests are pending.

Police spent much of yesterday scouring a half-block radius around the white, three-story house where Briggs lived. Several neighbors said the house typically is rented to college-age individuals. Westmoreland County tax records list the owners as Ronald and Ronnie Stefaniak of Apollo. They did not return a phone call seeking comment.

Investigators marked sites where bullets hit the street and parked cars. They took photographs and questioned stunned residents struggling to grasp the violent spectacle.

"The kids there have late-night parties every now and then, but never anything close to this," Hoffman said.

State police acquired search warrants for Briggs' house and his car, Martin said. They planned to interview Briggs' roommates and neighbors "to try to get a better understanding of what happened," Martin said.

District Attorney John Peck said his role will be to determine whether the shooting was justified.

Although the incident occurred off campus, Seton Hill administrators notified students of the events via e-mail and phone calls, said university spokeswoman Molly Robb Shimko.

Seton Hill is a co-ed Catholic university with about 2,000 students. Briggs' residence is as few blocks from campus.

Several students said they knew Briggs as a member of the school's 2005 football team.

"I heard he quit after his freshman year," said freshman Karl Jacobs, 18, a resident of Havey Hall. "People just came and knocked on our doors and told us we should stay in our rooms."

Joel Dolinski, head coach of the Seton Hill Griffins football team, said Briggs was one of 187 recruits to try out for the team before its 2005 inaugural season. He was a defensive lineman on that year's squad.

"I was an offensive coach at that time and Joe Briggs played on defense, so I can't really say I knew too much about him," Dolinski said.

He was nevertheless disturbed by the shooting.

"Just being a member of this community, my heart is broken over this event," Dolinski said. "I offer my condolences and deepest sympathies to his family, his friends . . . his mom. I also offer my sympathy to the law enforcement community because I know it wasn't an easy situation for them to have to make the decision they made."
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Old February 17, 2009, 04:39 PM   #4
dipper
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I did not see were it was mentioned the Briggs even had a concealed carry permit---supported it for carry on campus yes, but I see no mention of him having a permit.

I don't think we need to over react to this-- no more than any other "nut with a gun" case.
It's not good, that's for sure, none of these incidents are.
His stance on CC should not come into the conversation....that is, "WE" should not let anyone drag us into that debate.

Lots of people that commit crimes "think" lots of things.
Lets not let the media portray that someone who supports CC is waiting to shoot someone.
Anybody know IF he even had a permit??
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Old February 19, 2009, 08:55 PM   #5
Theojt
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One could also say that he was planning on becoming a state trooper and therefore...............(you see where this could go).

The point is, it was unfortunate event and these will still happen, regardless of whether our society is gun-wielding or gun-free (as demonstrated by last month's beheading at Virginia Tech).

I feel for his family and friends, but at least no others were involved.

/j
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Old February 19, 2009, 09:12 PM   #6
joeg26er
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root causes?

well - his "friends" were driving him home and he was a passenger shooting a gun out the window and acting erratically.

Then they dropped him off at his house - where he had access to more firearms

- not the best or smartest friends...but let's hear their side of the story...

<<<<Briggs, who police said was "heavily intoxicated," began firing a weapon from a car as it traveled along Interstate 70 earlier in the evening, Martin said. A passenger in the car, Briggs was acting irrationally and firing randomly out the car window as the vehicle traveled toward Greensburg, Martin said.>>>>

Who was the driver of the vehicle? [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] were they thinking?
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Old February 20, 2009, 09:17 AM   #7
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Quote:
Who was the driver of the vehicle? [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] were they thinking?
It's possible that they were as intoxicated as he was, or nearly so.
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Old February 20, 2009, 04:50 PM   #8
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No after the fact, bandaid law is going to bring this person back. Bad things happen. They are NOT a reason to limit others freedom.

The logical extension of this is no state troopers, or wannabe state troopers should have guns.

Likewise, no strip clubs should be allowed, and, we should go back to prohibition, since the real culprit here is alcohol, and, with the high percentage of crimes done behind alcohol and drugs, they are the real cause. However, history has shown us how effective bans on these substances have been.
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Old February 20, 2009, 05:44 PM   #9
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The reference to a reference on Briggs' Facebook page to Students for Concealed Carry on Campus was entirely gratuitous, attenuated beyond measure, and irrelevant to the story at hand, as has been pointed out. How common are concealed carry permits of any flavor in Maryland (Briggs' home state)?
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Old February 21, 2009, 08:15 AM   #10
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Just how did this become a "School Shooting"?

Good grief! He wasn't at the school, the school wasn't involved in any way.
Alcohol, strip clubs and hormones were involved.
A young man drank all night and committed suicide by cop.

The reporter did mention the facebook page. Gratuitous, but pretty mild, and technically accurate .

We should remember that the Internet can be "forever" and counsel our friends to show a rational face.

Which brings me back to question 1 - just how did this become a "school shooting" thread?

IMHO, the most inflammatory phrase in the newspaper article was "Police slay Seton Hill student....."

That pisses me off. The poor cop that had to bring him down will have a lifetime to reflect on it, and the reporter sensationalized it.
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Old February 22, 2009, 02:17 PM   #11
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sounds like a case of blue suicide

Yeah, I know, just drunk college boys, shooting from a moving car, no big deal, then after he gets home, it turns into tragedy. Right.

It goes without saying, but lets say it again...

The only chemical you should ever mix with gunpowder is priming compound!

No drugs, no alcohol, heck, even too much caffeine is not good.

Guy got liquored up, and started shooting. Bad, bad thing. Friends didn't act properly. Another bad thing, which led to the worst thing.

I note that the student didn't hit anyone. Now, he may have been trying to, and was just too drunk, or it is possible he actually wasn't trying to shoot anyone, just some things. Doesn't really matter in the end, except for the people who knew him, and their opinion of him. My take is, for reasons unknown to us, he got the result he was looking for.

I could be wrong, it has happened before. But it looks to me like drunken bad judgement got him into a situation where his "easiest" way out was a police bullet.
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Old March 2, 2009, 04:03 PM   #12
The Great Mahoo
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I'm not one to normally ressurect old threads (I guess its not that old) but I thought I would share some information I came across on this topic.

I was having drinks with an attorney friend this weekend and someone we got to talking about shooting and the like and he mentioned this incident. A friend of his was the officer to shot and killed Briggs in the incident here.

Briggs had finished an iternship with a local police department, being a Criminal Justice major, and had known to counter police tactics during the stand off.

Without trying to spread false truths, please realize these are just the workings of the rumor-mill. He told me that the police found several firearms within the apartment (apparent from the ~100 rounds fired at police) but also a high powered rifle aimed on a tripod at the campus a few hundred yards away. It turns out that Briggs getting drunk and starting shooting randomly (leading to the stand-off) may have actually prevented a tragic shooting. Imagine the terror caused by a long distance sniper picking off helpless students from 1/4 mile away.

I didn't see anything of such in the news, though admittedly I don't often keep up with the paper. Again, this is word-of-mouth from a friend of a friend, but even still, it illustrates somethings all too clearly. While tragic, the outcome could have been much worse, even if not up to the rumors.
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Old March 3, 2009, 12:37 AM   #13
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Any info on the make and model of firearm used?
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Old March 3, 2009, 08:14 AM   #14
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Quote:
Just how did this become a "School Shooting"?

Good grief! He wasn't at the school, the school wasn't involved in any way.
+1 It is bad enough it was stated that he was for CC on campus. It makes things look even worse when this is classified as a school shooting even though it wasn't at school or on school property. The police involved were not school police, apparently.
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