260 Rem vs. 308 Win

AK Shooter · May 11, 2008, 05:33 PM

I think I'm finally ready to take the plunge and pick up my first AR. I am sold on a DPMS LR-308 but am becoming more interested in the LR-260 for some odd reason.

Does anyone have an opinion on either of these? I will be reloading for either one but cost of lead or brass won't sway which direction I go.

Thanks

Glenner · May 11, 2008, 05:47 PM

I think there are some ballistic advantages to the 260,do you plan to shoot 500-600 yards?

globemaster3 · May 11, 2008, 06:17 PM

I own an LR-308B with the 18" Bull Barrel. I also have a friend with the 24" Bull. One thing you need to know, they are HEAVY! I haven't weighed mine or his, but I can tell you its not something I'm going to carry far into the woods! BUT, they are accurate. Sub-moa on both. I would think the .260 version if you go with the bull would be about the same weight.

I've done some serious reading on long range shooting and the 6-6.5mms are growing in popularity. The .260 is 6.5 I think. One article I read mentioned a couple LEOs winning shoots with the .260. In others, the 6.5 Creedmore (which DMPS announced they are going to produce a rifle chambered in it in 2008) would be another option.

Outside the AR community, there are custom chamberings in 6.5-284 that are taking notice in the long range community.

Just some thoughts.

73-Captain · May 11, 2008, 06:19 PM

"I think there are some ballistic advantages to the 260,do you plan to shoot 500-600 yards?"

"Think" there is "some" advantage to the .260 Rem?

How about much flatter shooting?

How about less recoil?

Muzzle velocities and muzzle energies will NEVER kill an animal unless the animal is at the muzzle. What does matter is velocity and energy at the point of impact. The .260/6.5mm bullets tend to have very high ballistic coefficients resulting in much higher RETAINED velocities and resulting higher RETAINED energy.

Bullets of .260/6.5mm have very high Sectional Densities, they are very long for their weight. Bullets with higher SD tend to penetrate better which some claim give this caliber "killing power out of proportion to its size".

Supposedly the 6.5mm Grendel has both higher velocity and energy than the .308W at and beyond 1,000 yards. With a 200-300 fps initial velocity advantage over the 6.5mm Grendel and the same bullets the .260 Rem. should bring this advantage to a lot shorter range while extending long range performance even further.

C.

Jimro · May 11, 2008, 10:42 PM

Unless you plan on competing in a rifle class that requires 308 then the 260 is the way to go.

But you'll pay more for ammo.

Jimro

Zak Smith · May 12, 2008, 11:24 AM

article | The Case for .260 Remington: A Better Cartridge For Practical Long-Range Shooting

MacGille · May 12, 2008, 11:46 AM

Which is better, Ford or Chevy? Buy the one you like. Either will do the job you want.

Jack O'Conner · May 12, 2008, 04:59 PM

Jim Carmichael talked Remington into the 260 and all his colleagues yawned. It's a cartridge that should be popular but .308, .243, and 7mm-08 continue to beat it in gross sales.

.308 will definitely shoot a Premium 180 grain bullet right thru a bull elk. This fact sells many .308 rifles each year. In contrast, average Sporting Goods Clerk has no knowledge of the 260 and this cartridge is destined to slow-er sales.

Jack

Dobe · May 12, 2008, 06:05 PM

Zak,
That was a good read. I believe the article you wrote was in 2006. Does anyone now make brass for the .260 besides Remington?

Zak Smith · May 12, 2008, 06:07 PM

Nosler & Norma

SimpleIsGood229 · May 12, 2008, 07:14 PM

Doesn't Lapua also produce .260 brass?

Zak Smith · May 12, 2008, 07:17 PM

No

AK Shooter · May 12, 2008, 08:12 PM

260 it is.......... Thanks for the feedback.

surg_res · May 14, 2008, 08:44 AM

Not to try and throw a wrench in the works, but I don't even have data for the 260 in my new Speer reloading manual. Not that it doesn't exist, but my thoughts are that the popularity of the 260 clearly isn't there--should you ever wish to re-sell your weapon. I'd also worry about the availability of reloading components. History is filled with superior cartridges that just never caught on.

Horseman · May 14, 2008, 09:44 AM

Since the 260 cases could be formed from 308's and the 6.5 bullets will always be available I wouldn't worry about obsolescence if you can reload. If you shoot often enough you should really reload whatever the cartridge. Good bullets are around $18.00/100 currently.

The last time I looked even the cheapest Remington core-lokts in 243 were $17.00/box of 20. You can basically buy 100 bullets for the cost of 20 loaded. Add the cost of primers, powder, and brass and you should be shooting for 1/2 price. Plus you aren't dependent of factory ammo to dictate what cartridge you will shoot.

The 260 is ballistically similar to other cartridges considered to be the ultimate in med.-long range in ballistics and accuracy. 6.5-284 being one.

Zak Smith · May 14, 2008, 10:15 AM

Both Black Hills and Cor-Bon make good long-range .260 loads from the factory.

In the last two years we've seen these two crop up in addition to the new Norma and Nosler brass.

In the last 4 years, a dozen just local shooters I know have built .260' (and many have ditched their 7RMs or .308's in the process).

-z

73-Captain · May 14, 2008, 12:42 PM

surg_res said, "Not to try and throw a wrench in the works, but I don't even have data for the 260 in my new Speer reloading manual."

And, "I'd also worry about the availability of reloading components."

Not in the new Speer reloading manual? SO WHAT! That is why the Speer manual is THE LAST manual I buy or use or refer to! Maybe that is why Lyman is coming out with a 49th and Speer recently released a 14th edition. Perhaps you just need a better reloading manual? Or a second reloading manual?

You can find reloading data in almost every other manual. There is .260 Rem. data in EVERY recent manual I have.

The Lyman 48th has data for the .260 Rem. and I'm sure the 49th edition due out in June will also have data. You can also find data in the Sierra 5th, Lee 2nd, Nosler 6th and the new Lapua and VhitiVhouri manuals.

There are those that claim that as long as you work your loads up like you are supposed to do, you can use 6.5x55mm Swedish data.

A lack of reloading components? You must be joking!

I am amazed at the variety of excellent 6.5mm/.264 bullets that are available here considering how unpopular that bore size is in the US. Maybe those that shoot various 6.5mm rifles are real reloaders and real SHOOTERS?

Cases will never be a problem, they can be made from any other cartridge based on the .308W. Best are the .243W necked up 0.021" and the 7mm-08 necked down just 0.020".

Powders and primers are the same as many other cartridges.

What more could you ask for?

C.

May 11, 2008, 05:33 PM	#1
AK Shooter Member Join Date: September 26, 2007 Location: Anchorage Ak Posts: 26	260 Rem vs. 308 Win I think I'm finally ready to take the plunge and pick up my first AR. I am sold on a DPMS LR-308 but am becoming more interested in the LR-260 for some odd reason. Does anyone have an opinion on either of these? I will be reloading for either one but cost of lead or brass won't sway which direction I go. Thanks

May 11, 2008, 06:19 PM	#4
73-Captain Junior member Join Date: December 14, 2007 Posts: 199	.260 Rem. vs. .308 Win. "I think there are some ballistic advantages to the 260,do you plan to shoot 500-600 yards?" "Think" there is "some" advantage to the .260 Rem? How about much flatter shooting? How about less recoil? Muzzle velocities and muzzle energies will NEVER kill an animal unless the animal is at the muzzle. What does matter is velocity and energy at the point of impact. The .260/6.5mm bullets tend to have very high ballistic coefficients resulting in much higher RETAINED velocities and resulting higher RETAINED energy. Bullets of .260/6.5mm have very high Sectional Densities, they are very long for their weight. Bullets with higher SD tend to penetrate better which some claim give this caliber "killing power out of proportion to its size". Supposedly the 6.5mm Grendel has both higher velocity and energy than the .308W at and beyond 1,000 yards. With a 200-300 fps initial velocity advantage over the 6.5mm Grendel and the same bullets the .260 Rem. should bring this advantage to a lot shorter range while extending long range performance even further. C.

May 11, 2008, 10:42 PM	#5
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	Unless you plan on competing in a rifle class that requires 308 then the 260 is the way to go. But you'll pay more for ammo. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

May 12, 2008, 11:24 AM	#6
Zak Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 1999 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA Posts: 2,682	article \| The Case for .260 Remington: A Better Cartridge For Practical Long-Range Shooting __________________ Zak Smith . DEMIGOD LLC . THUNDER BEAST ARMS CORP . COLORADO MULTI-GUN *My PM inbox full? Send e-mail instead.*

May 12, 2008, 11:46 AM	#7
MacGille Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2006 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 976	Which is better, Ford or Chevy? Buy the one you like. Either will do the job you want. __________________ If ye love wealth better than Liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animated contest of Freedom, go from us in Peace. We ask not your counsel or Arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen. --Samuel Adams--<*ixoye><

May 11, 2008, 05:47 PM	#2
Glenner Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 127	I think there are some ballistic advantages to the 260,do you plan to shoot 500-600 yards?

May 11, 2008, 06:17 PM	#3
globemaster3 Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2006 Posts: 1,482	I own an LR-308B with the 18" Bull Barrel. I also have a friend with the 24" Bull. One thing you need to know, they are HEAVY! I haven't weighed mine or his, but I can tell you its not something I'm going to carry far into the woods! BUT, they are accurate. Sub-moa on both. I would think the .260 version if you go with the bull would be about the same weight. I've done some serious reading on long range shooting and the 6-6.5mms are growing in popularity. The .260 is 6.5 I think. One article I read mentioned a couple LEOs winning shoots with the .260. In others, the 6.5 Creedmore (which DMPS announced they are going to produce a rifle chambered in it in 2008) would be another option. Outside the AR community, there are custom chamberings in 6.5-284 that are taking notice in the long range community. Just some thoughts.

May 12, 2008, 04:59 PM	#8
Jack O'Conner Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2005 Location: Manatee County, Florida Posts: 1,976	Jim Carmichael talked Remington into the 260 and all his colleagues yawned. It's a cartridge that should be popular but .308, .243, and 7mm-08 continue to beat it in gross sales. .308 will definitely shoot a Premium 180 grain bullet right thru a bull elk. This fact sells many .308 rifles each year. In contrast, average Sporting Goods Clerk has no knowledge of the 260 and this cartridge is destined to slow-er sales. Jack __________________ Fire up the grill! Deer hunting IS NOT catch and release. Last edited by Jack O'Conner; May 12, 2008 at 04:59 PM. Reason: mis-spelled word

May 12, 2008, 06:05 PM	#9
Dobe Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2004 Posts: 1,348	Zak, That was a good read. I believe the article you wrote was in 2006. Does anyone now make brass for the .260 besides Remington? __________________ What America needs is not a good 5 cent cigar. What America needs is a good source of cheap ammunition.

May 12, 2008, 06:07 PM	#10
Zak Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 1999 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA Posts: 2,682	Nosler & Norma __________________ Zak Smith . DEMIGOD LLC . THUNDER BEAST ARMS CORP . COLORADO MULTI-GUN *My PM inbox full? Send e-mail instead.*

May 12, 2008, 07:14 PM	#11
SimpleIsGood229 Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2008 Posts: 136	Doesn't Lapua also produce .260 brass?

May 12, 2008, 07:17 PM	#12
Zak Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 1999 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA Posts: 2,682	No __________________ Zak Smith . DEMIGOD LLC . THUNDER BEAST ARMS CORP . COLORADO MULTI-GUN *My PM inbox full? Send e-mail instead.*

May 12, 2008, 08:12 PM	#13
AK Shooter Member Join Date: September 26, 2007 Location: Anchorage Ak Posts: 26	260 it is.......... Thanks for the feedback.

May 14, 2008, 08:44 AM	#14
surg_res Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2005 Location: Texas, 5th GEN! Posts: 621	Not to try and throw a wrench in the works, but I don't even have data for the 260 in my new Speer reloading manual. Not that it doesn't exist, but my thoughts are that the popularity of the 260 clearly isn't there--should you ever wish to re-sell your weapon. I'd also worry about the availability of reloading components. History is filled with superior cartridges that just never caught on. __________________ ----

May 14, 2008, 09:44 AM	#15
Horseman Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2006 Location: Midwest Posts: 1,067	Since the 260 cases could be formed from 308's and the 6.5 bullets will always be available I wouldn't worry about obsolescence if you can reload. If you shoot often enough you should really reload whatever the cartridge. Good bullets are around $18.00/100 currently. The last time I looked even the cheapest Remington core-lokts in 243 were $17.00/box of 20. You can basically buy 100 bullets for the cost of 20 loaded. Add the cost of primers, powder, and brass and you should be shooting for 1/2 price. Plus you aren't dependent of factory ammo to dictate what cartridge you will shoot. The 260 is ballistically similar to other cartridges considered to be the ultimate in med.-long range in ballistics and accuracy. 6.5-284 being one. Last edited by Horseman; May 14, 2008 at 09:45 AM. Reason: didn't see you said you are reloading already

May 14, 2008, 10:15 AM	#16
Zak Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 1999 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA Posts: 2,682	Both Black Hills and Cor-Bon make good long-range .260 loads from the factory. In the last two years we've seen these two crop up in addition to the new Norma and Nosler brass. In the last 4 years, a dozen just local shooters I know have built .260' (and many have ditched their 7RMs or .308's in the process). -z __________________ Zak Smith . DEMIGOD LLC . THUNDER BEAST ARMS CORP . COLORADO MULTI-GUN *My PM inbox full? Send e-mail instead.*

May 14, 2008, 12:42 PM	#17
73-Captain Junior member Join Date: December 14, 2007 Posts: 199	surg_res said, "Not to try and throw a wrench in the works, but I don't even have data for the 260 in my new Speer reloading manual." And, "I'd also worry about the availability of reloading components." Not in the new Speer reloading manual? SO WHAT! That is why the Speer manual is THE LAST manual I buy or use or refer to! Maybe that is why Lyman is coming out with a 49th and Speer recently released a 14th edition. Perhaps you just need a better reloading manual? Or a second reloading manual? You can find reloading data in almost every other manual. There is .260 Rem. data in EVERY recent manual I have. The Lyman 48th has data for the .260 Rem. and I'm sure the 49th edition due out in June will also have data. You can also find data in the Sierra 5th, Lee 2nd, Nosler 6th and the new Lapua and VhitiVhouri manuals. There are those that claim that as long as you work your loads up like you are supposed to do, you can use 6.5x55mm Swedish data. A lack of reloading components? You must be joking! I am amazed at the variety of excellent 6.5mm/.264 bullets that are available here considering how unpopular that bore size is in the US. Maybe those that shoot various 6.5mm rifles are real reloaders and real SHOOTERS? Cases will never be a problem, they can be made from any other cartridge based on the .308W. Best are the .243W necked up 0.021" and the 7mm-08 necked down just 0.020". Powders and primers are the same as many other cartridges. What more could you ask for? C. Last edited by 73-Captain; May 14, 2008 at 02:58 PM. Reason: Correct Spelling