Wad, No wad. Grease, No grease ?

Remington kid · December 14, 2005, 05:37 PM

After making black smoke for so long I found a combination that seem's to work best to keep the fouling down in the barrel of a revolver when useing the REAL BLACK like Goex. I load powder, dry wad made of wool, a little grease over the wad and then the ball/bullet and like to also use just a little grease over the ball/bullet. My lube mix is not the runny stuff but it's soft enough to do what it's intended to do, keep the fouling soft and still not run out in hot weather and help keep down the chance of a chain fire.
A friend has sent me the best Conicals I have ever seen or tried in my Remington .44. The bullet has a taper to it so that the bottom fits in the chamber and keeps the bullet straight as you ram it on down over the powder. Perfect design! This bullet has two grease or lube rings so I load them with my lube before loading and I also have left out the wad so that I can shoot my favorite 40g of fffg Goex with this large 200g. conical. I still place a little lube over the conical too but I have a lot of fouling with this method compaired to when I use my dry wool wad and grease over it.
Anyone else have more or less fouling when useing a wad or not useing one?
I know some folks like no wads at all, just grease and others swear by a wad and others like a pill. What works best for you? What is your loading method?

Smokin_Gun · December 14, 2005, 08:20 PM

My favorite method is powder, bore butter based lube pill, ball. If not the lube pill bore butter around the edge of ball and chamber. If not dry with a tight fitting ball swab bore wipe cylinder, oil pin.
With conicals lube bullet grooves with bore butter i.e. Lee mold w/ 2 grooves heeled bullets.

The first method is what I usually do. An keep them stored that way as the pills do not bleed into the power or contaminate it. I haven't had any problems this way and accuracy is excellant, bores stay relatively clean and fouling soft...can be wiped off easily.

Steve499 · December 14, 2005, 08:31 PM

Kid & Smoke- How well do those conicals group and do you know the Lee mould number?

I always just lubed over the ball but I have been inspired by THE KID to try the dry felt wads over the powder, lube pill, ball. I want better weather to give it the target test.

Steve

Smokin_Gun · December 14, 2005, 08:49 PM

They do ok, but not like a round ball groups. I haven't found that conicals are as accurate as round ball..especially beyond 50 feet. I shoot 25 to 100 yards most at siloutte targets ... steel plate heavy guage chickens, turkeys, pigs, and rams... also alots of water filled containers, and 100 yd gongs, along with paper of course

Remington kid · December 14, 2005, 08:58 PM

Steve, Don't know what mold he's useing but I know they are so accurate useing 40g of Goex it's unreal. I just had a few to play with and hope to get more as there are a few things I want to try with them, If i can still find some cheap water mellons

When I first got them I had some problems but it was all my fault. They are longer than the ball and flat on the bottom so they don't compress the powder like a ball does. With a ball you are compressing the center but the powder is allowed to fill all around the sides on the ball.These stop dead in short order! The trick to still useing 40g of fffg of Goex was to eliminate the wad. Problem solved.

Smoken _Gun and few others seem to like the pills but I have never found any yet that don't contaminate the powder like they have . When you compress the ball or bullet down on the pill it has to be forced in to the powder so hard that it has to pick up and contaminate the powder even if it was pure wax you are not getting full powder load that you would with out a pill or useing a dry wad.If you don't compress it that far you are leaving a possiable air pocket.That's been my experience anyway but that doesn't mean that it won't work for them or that they are not at least happy enough with the results.That's what counts.

Smokin_Gun · December 14, 2005, 09:40 PM

Have you tried the recipe I mention from Voy forum? My powder burns and the pills do not contaminate the powder. I don't get anymore fliers than i would if i used nothing... anyway it's all relative to how one does something I would guess. Wonder wads dry work ok if you want a thick hunk a wool taking the place of your powder.HeHe! Jus' funnin'. But when you lube a wonder wad with anything...it will squeeze out of it and into the powder. That's the differance in usin a 1/16 to 1/8 lube pill. I'll be honest here and please don't anyone take offence, I haven't like using wonder wads since about 1987. I primarily cause I was shootin .36 mostly. I did the crisco over the ball wonder wad under it, hated it...LoL. went from crisco to Lightning Lube 103 if any oldtimers remeber that, a paste in a tub. Then started using T/C Natural Lube 1000 Bore Butter, for everything, all my Revs .31-.44, .58 Mini Balls, T/C .50 patch or Mooses Milk kinda like T/C Number Thirteen Solvent. Then about a year ago joined Voy Forum and ran it to these guys and stared using the Lube Pills. The recipe can vary to you taste, climate or materials...I just think Bore Butter is easier and better as a base. Anyway enough outta me... I'm sure what everyone else uses they have perfected a recipe that works best for them...I was just lettin you know about me so as no one thinks I'm reflecting on anything but me...Thanks.

MPP1423 · December 14, 2005, 11:42 PM

The Lee Mould For These Conicals Is #90381.they Are Around .452-453.i Have Mic'ed Them As Such.they Do Load Easy And Are Very Accruate And Hit Very Hard.they Drop A Deer Great!my 58's Like These Conicals Better Than The Balls.the Balls Shoot Good But Not As Tight As These 200 Gr Conicals.i Now Have A Mould For The Ruger Old Army By Lee And It Moulds Hollow Points.they Shoot Real Good As Well.i Shoot These With 35-40 Gr Of 777 With A Wad.

Smokin_Gun · December 15, 2005, 02:06 AM

MPP is this the conical you use 450-200-1r?
and 456 for the Ruger? Have you tried the .456's in the Rems or Colts yet?
http://www.gunaccessories.com/Lee/Mo...lackPowder.asp

MPP1423 · December 15, 2005, 02:22 AM

that is the ones i use but the ruger moulded bullets (456-457)will not fit my rem's cause they are .451.

Smokin_Gun · December 15, 2005, 02:39 AM

They are heeled for the .456 chamber and the .451's same thing correct?
If you cant' tell i have not used alot a Conical bullets... mostly a pile a round ball though...

Not positive but I thought i saw Lee 2 cavity mold for $17.xx at Midway...this Lee site is expensive.
LEE90381 Single Conical Bullet Mold - 44 Cal. Rem. 450-200-1R $26.95

December 14, 2005, 05:37 PM	#1
Remington kid Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: South Central West Virginia Posts: 611	Wad, No wad. Grease, No grease ? After making black smoke for so long I found a combination that seem's to work best to keep the fouling down in the barrel of a revolver when useing the REAL BLACK like Goex. I load powder, dry wad made of wool, a little grease over the wad and then the ball/bullet and like to also use just a little grease over the ball/bullet. My lube mix is not the runny stuff but it's soft enough to do what it's intended to do, keep the fouling soft and still not run out in hot weather and help keep down the chance of a chain fire. A friend has sent me the best Conicals I have ever seen or tried in my Remington .44. The bullet has a taper to it so that the bottom fits in the chamber and keeps the bullet straight as you ram it on down over the powder. Perfect design! This bullet has two grease or lube rings so I load them with my lube before loading and I also have left out the wad so that I can shoot my favorite 40g of fffg Goex with this large 200g. conical. I still place a little lube over the conical too but I have a lot of fouling with this method compaired to when I use my dry wool wad and grease over it. Anyone else have more or less fouling when useing a wad or not useing one? I know some folks like no wads at all, just grease and others swear by a wad and others like a pill. What works best for you? What is your loading method?

December 14, 2005, 08:20 PM	#2
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	My favorite method is powder, bore butter based lube pill, ball. If not the lube pill bore butter around the edge of ball and chamber. If not dry with a tight fitting ball swab bore wipe cylinder, oil pin. With conicals lube bullet grooves with bore butter i.e. Lee mold w/ 2 grooves heeled bullets. The first method is what I usually do. An keep them stored that way as the pills do not bleed into the power or contaminate it. I haven't had any problems this way and accuracy is excellant, bores stay relatively clean and fouling soft...can be wiped off easily. __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

December 14, 2005, 08:49 PM	#4
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	They do ok, but not like a round ball groups. I haven't found that conicals are as accurate as round ball..especially beyond 50 feet. I shoot 25 to 100 yards most at siloutte targets ... steel plate heavy guage chickens, turkeys, pigs, and rams... also alots of water filled containers, and 100 yd gongs, along with paper of course __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

December 14, 2005, 09:40 PM	#6
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Have you tried the recipe I mention from Voy forum? My powder burns and the pills do not contaminate the powder. I don't get anymore fliers than i would if i used nothing... anyway it's all relative to how one does something I would guess. Wonder wads dry work ok if you want a thick hunk a wool taking the place of your powder.HeHe! Jus' funnin'. But when you lube a wonder wad with anything...it will squeeze out of it and into the powder. That's the differance in usin a 1/16 to 1/8 lube pill. I'll be honest here and please don't anyone take offence, I haven't like using wonder wads since about 1987. I primarily cause I was shootin .36 mostly. I did the crisco over the ball wonder wad under it, hated it...LoL. went from crisco to Lightning Lube 103 if any oldtimers remeber that, a paste in a tub. Then started using T/C Natural Lube 1000 Bore Butter, for everything, all my Revs .31-.44, .58 Mini Balls, T/C .50 patch or Mooses Milk kinda like T/C Number Thirteen Solvent. Then about a year ago joined Voy Forum and ran it to these guys and stared using the Lube Pills. The recipe can vary to you taste, climate or materials...I just think Bore Butter is easier and better as a base. Anyway enough outta me... I'm sure what everyone else uses they have perfected a recipe that works best for them...I was just lettin you know about me so as no one thinks I'm reflecting on anything but me...Thanks. __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

December 15, 2005, 02:06 AM	#8
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Lee 450-200-1r? MPP is this the conical you use 450-200-1r? and 456 for the Ruger? Have you tried the .456's in the Rems or Colts yet? http://www.gunaccessories.com/Lee/Mo...lackPowder.asp __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

December 14, 2005, 08:31 PM	#3
Steve499 Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Central Missouri Posts: 533	Kid & Smoke- How well do those conicals group and do you know the Lee mould number? I always just lubed over the ball but I have been inspired by THE KID to try the dry felt wads over the powder, lube pill, ball. I want better weather to give it the target test. Steve

December 14, 2005, 08:58 PM	#5
Remington kid Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: South Central West Virginia Posts: 611	Steve, Don't know what mold he's useing but I know they are so accurate useing 40g of Goex it's unreal. I just had a few to play with and hope to get more as there are a few things I want to try with them, If i can still find some cheap water mellons When I first got them I had some problems but it was all my fault. They are longer than the ball and flat on the bottom so they don't compress the powder like a ball does. With a ball you are compressing the center but the powder is allowed to fill all around the sides on the ball.These stop dead in short order! The trick to still useing 40g of fffg of Goex was to eliminate the wad. Problem solved. Smoken _Gun and few others seem to like the pills but I have never found any yet that don't contaminate the powder like they have . When you compress the ball or bullet down on the pill it has to be forced in to the powder so hard that it has to pick up and contaminate the powder even if it was pure wax you are not getting full powder load that you would with out a pill or useing a dry wad.If you don't compress it that far you are leaving a possiable air pocket.That's been my experience anyway but that doesn't mean that it won't work for them or that they are not at least happy enough with the results.That's what counts.

December 14, 2005, 11:42 PM	#7
MPP1423 Senior Member Join Date: September 10, 2005 Location: GOODLETTSVILLE,TN Posts: 298	The Lee Mould For These Conicals Is #90381.they Are Around .452-453.i Have Mic'ed Them As Such.they Do Load Easy And Are Very Accruate And Hit Very Hard.they Drop A Deer Great!my 58's Like These Conicals Better Than The Balls.the Balls Shoot Good But Not As Tight As These 200 Gr Conicals.i Now Have A Mould For The Ruger Old Army By Lee And It Moulds Hollow Points.they Shoot Real Good As Well.i Shoot These With 35-40 Gr Of 777 With A Wad.

December 15, 2005, 02:22 AM	#9
MPP1423 Senior Member Join Date: September 10, 2005 Location: GOODLETTSVILLE,TN Posts: 298	that is the ones i use but the ruger moulded bullets (456-457)will not fit my rem's cause they are .451.

December 15, 2005, 02:39 AM	#10
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	They are heeled for the .456 chamber and the .451's same thing correct? If you cant' tell i have not used alot a Conical bullets... mostly a pile a round ball though... Not positive but I thought i saw Lee 2 cavity mold for $17.xx at Midway...this Lee site is expensive. LEE90381 Single Conical Bullet Mold - 44 Cal. Rem. 450-200-1R $26.95 __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php