The squibb that won't come out

[101combatvet]

Originally Posted by kell

Is it possible to shoot it out?

You can't be serious!

[101combatvet]

You have two options at this point.

1. Remove the barrel, vise it with padding, and knock it out with a taped metal rod.

2. Don't remove the barrel; vise it at the barrel with padding and knock it out with a taped metal rod.

[stinkeypete]

Kell's idea sounds crazy at first, but it's NOT... caveats:

I read this article long ago where Gunsmith fires blank round with reduced charge against water filled barrel to clear stuck bullets.

In other words, fill the half of the barrel towards the breech with water. Maintain muzzle down position. Insert blank cartridge and fire in a safe area with all possible safety precautions.

I have never done this myself, but the article suggested that the water transmits the pressure from the blank with less potential for damage than the pressure generated by pounding on a brass rod. It seems the youtube video has been removed.

Another option is drilling a big hole through the bullet, then inserting a threaded bolt.

Thread a washer and nut on the base of the bullet side, then a protective bulkhead over the muzzle and start twisting the nut on the muzzle side.

A heck of a lot of pressure can be applied to the base with a screw, and it's not peening the tip wider.. it's pulling a plate hard against the base.

I would try the water trick. The video I saw of an old gunsmith doing it was convincing.

But then, I reload and could make weak blank loads and build up the ker-pow from a weak level and take it easy and hope for the best.

[HighValleyRanch]

OKay, this is where I'm at with this project.
I made a centering jig out of the metal hobby tubes I bought today, and drilled a perfectly center hole through the bullet. Started with 3/16 and the final hole diameter is 13/64" which the pictured stainless 10/32 cap screw fits through with a little play.

I chose the cap screw because I could use an alley key to hole the screw while cranking on the nut to pull the bullet forward. The head of the cap screw fits fine through the bore without touching the barrel rifling (so I did not have to file down a nut on an all thread).
the muzzle end has the screw protruding and using a brass washer on the face with a 10/32 washer and then the 10/32 nut.

I got it all set up and heard the bullet break free and felt it moving forward, but then it was going so easy, I freaked and took it all apart to make sure I wasn't doing something stupid like pulling the stainless screw through the bullet. Sure enough, everything looked fine and I could see that the bullet moved forward 3/8" towards the muzzle.

But then my wife called me for dinner, and that's where we are at right now. Will finish pulling out the bullet later.

[bamaranger]

What a mess.......good work on a solution......best of luck

[Gbro]

Interesting predicament you found yourself in.
Hope you have a stack of washers when you get to the end of the "socket Head Cap-screws threads. But if its going easy a block of wood drilled should work.

any time a steel drift is used it should be a loose fit to barrel and then several bearing areas made with electrical tape to keep it centered.

[HighValleyRanch]

Well, it went pretty good considering the predicament. All the suggestions really helped, especially the ideas about pulling it towards the muzzle and using an all thread with washers on the muzzle to create a "press" to pull the bullet forward.
Drilling the bullet really made the change.

I got it all the way to the muzzle, but have to figure out a copper or bronze sleeve so that I can press the bullet all the way out, but it's moving fine now with some pressure.

It's getting late and I've always found that it's better to call it quits and start fresh the next day, rather than rushing and making a big mistake.
So I know that I will figure a way to get that dang copper slug out, and can rest easier tonight.

Oh, in the fuss and bother, I lost the crane screw, so any suggestions on where to pick one up would be great.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by HighValleyRanch

I got it all the way to the muzzle, but have to figure out a copper or bronze sleeve so that I can press the bullet all the way out, but it's moving fine now with some pressure.

Long-ish length of the same diameter all-tread and several over-sized washers plus a short length of steel pipe. make your own slide hammer.

Or - find a socket that will seat on the muzzle but big enough inside to allow the bullet to enter. Drop it down over the cap screw and pull the bullet up into the socket.

[JohnKSa]

This all makes me think that the barrel has a tight spot where it goes through the frame. Otherwise, it should have continued tapping out the back.

Oh, in the fuss and bother, I lost the crane screw, so any suggestions on where to pick one up would be great.

S&W will probably have them. Might even send you one for free.

You don't really need the replacement, as soon as you make the arrangements to get one and it's on its way, you'll find the one you lost.

By the way I think if you put the gun back in the jig, you can brace the washers on the jig instead of the muzzle and finish pulling the bullet that way.

[HighValleyRanch]

OKAY, got it out!
First I would like to thank everyone for the suggestions, especially, 9x19, JohnSka and Aquila Blanca. The idea of drilling the bullet and using a bolt or all thread with washers on the muzzle to pull it out did the trick.

I learned a bunch from this experience and mostly, I wanted to solve the problem on my own so that if this came up again, I would have a solution.

First, I think that HiBC might be right. That it was a lack of crimp that caused the squibb. I know that I put 5 grains of powder in, so that puzzled me. But when I think back, I was in a rush to try the load out and remember that the case was flared so that the bullet was almost a drop in, and then I tried to adjust the crimp to hold it tight enough, but never tried with a plier to see if it was super tight. So the loose crimp might have cause the bullet to jump out without the full force causing the squibb.

Next, I think that whacking such a light framed revolver is a bad idea. It felt like it was damaging the gun more than helping. I do understand the concept of a great force dislodging the stuck bullet, but the amount of force needed to do it in this case seemed overwhelming.

I believe that by trying to push the bullet to the cylinder side was what cause it to get stuck even more. This bullet is copper with a hollow base, so I think that trying to push it to the rear cause the base to wedge in even tighter. And probably not being able to give the initial breaking whack cause the bullet to peen even more, wedging it in tighter. By forcing the bullet to the muzzle end, it probably pressed out the wedging so that it could move.

Pressing is better than striking, and using the barrel as the press was the key.
When I found out how soft the copper was in drilling was the real deciding factor in deciding to drill it out to weaken the bullet and press it out.

The jig that I made out wood was not solid enough for the force needed in whacking the bullet out with a brass dowel, but it did come in handy for the drilling and pressing out.

By using the hobby rods, I was able to make a perfect sleeve jig for centering the hole, and that was a major key to the project. I used three tube sleeves for the perfect fit. I will keep these jigs for future use if needed. Cost was less than 25.00

!st photo is of Aquila Blanca suggestion for using a socket for the final removal of the bullet out the muzzle end.

Here is the bullet pulled out of the barrel


And finally, a photo of the Smith 360PD all back together. It's become one of my favorite carry revolver as it is so light and fits neatly into my jeans pocket.
Those grips are Altamont Legacy pearl grips ground down really flat for pocket carry. NICE TO HAVE IT BACK!

[DaleA]

But then my wife called me for dinner, [so I stopped working on it]

I got it all the way to the muzzle...It's getting late [so I stopped working on it]

Wow. You have a LOT more patience than I do. (And that is a VERY good thing).

Please give us a follow-up on how the gun shoots now and if you are going to continue reloading with the copper bullets.

P.S. I still think the jig you made to hold the gun was one of the cleverest bit of handiwork I've seen in a long, long time.

[9x19]

Well done!

[HighValleyRanch]

Smith and Wesson customer service is awesome. I called up and they're sending me a couple of crane retaining screws no charge.

So the bore looks perfect and other that a few minor scuff marks on the frame from all the work, it looks good. Used the 11/32 brass sleeve which fits into the bore perfectly to check the alignment with the cylinder lockup and it slid in smooth as glass.

So ready to test fire, but is it OK without the crane set screw or should I wait until the replacement comes. Looks like it would be fine as cylinder is locked into place without relying on that srew. Will use some .38 special factory ammo first.

And yes, this will not stop me from reloading.

[rclark]

But just maybe stick to plain o' lead bullets this time . I really don't see the purpose of solids when lead/lead jacketed has worked so well through the years.

[JohnKSa]

Glad it's back in service & S&W took care of you!

[Jim567]

This was one of the most interesting posts in a long time!
Not to mention, everybody loves a happy ending!

[44 AMP]

Glad you got the bullet out.

Seems to me you love to tinker. I was impressed with the fixture you built to hold the pistol, but am curious why you decided to go ahead with your version of a stuck case remover without even TRYING the freezer method.

[bamaranger]

Hey..........good for you!

I note the inscription of " no less than 120 gr bullet weight" on the ejector shroud. That seems most interesting and I wonder if whatever engineering issue (sleeved barrel?) requiring that warning contributed to your (solved!!!!) problem?

[smee78]

Glad to see you got the bullet out, I did enjoy this read and now you need to do it again so we can all watch and comment....JK

Glad it came out with out damage, I would not fire it with out the crane screw.

[HighValleyRanch]

44 AMP, I did freeze it and try to knock it out, but it did not work. But I only left it in for a few hours, but it was frozen cold.

The 120 grain or higher only applies to .357 magnum, not .38 special +P so that wasn't a contributing factor.

Yes, I will just hold tight for the crane screw to try firing it. No need to press my luck.
Just happy that it's all whole again!

I am sure that someone in the future is going to have this happen to them, so that is my reasoning behind an extensive writeup on these forums so that others can benefit from this procedure.

[Driftwood Johnson]

The bullet is solid copper?

Why?

Stick to lead, or copper jacketed lead.

[74A95]

Originally Posted by Driftwood Johnson

Stick to lead, or copper jacketed lead.

Why?

[HighValleyRanch]

LeHigh's all copper defense bullet design has had great testing results:
"The nose design is the key. The Fluid Transfer’s radial flutes force the hydraulic energy inward and then as the energy is restricted, it accelerates outward creating high pressure spikes severely damaging surrounding tissue. This very rapid increase in fluid flow creates cavitation and massive tissue damage away from the projectile equivalent to those of the best hollow points on the market. The result of the Xtreme Defense is a permanent wound cavity that is two to four times greater than what a flat or round nose bullet generates and often larger than traditional or solid copper expanding bullets."

So no need for hollow point expansion, which the .38 special is borderline on.

[Jim Watson]

Wow, straight from the advertising agency.

I note the inscription of " no less than 120 gr bullet weight" on the ejector shroud. That seems most interesting and I wonder if whatever engineering issue (sleeved barrel?) requiring that warning contributed to your (solved!!!!) problem?

Light fast bullets in a light gun are subject to inertia pulling.

[Bob Wright]

For removing bore obstruxtionc, I always use a steel rod slightly smalleer that bore diameter and wrapped with duct tape. The thicker the diameter the rod, the better.

Bob Wright