S&W scandium J frame vs steel J frame

[Alan0354]

Hi

I have Model 36 steel J-frame S&W. I am looking at the new 340 or 360 scandium J frame. I like the size of the 36, it's just heavy. Scandium frame is a lot lighter.

My question for firing 38 +P only(forget 357), which one can last longer assuming I shoot a lot. Basically, I am comparing between scandium alloy vs steel frame.

To be honest, I still don't feel very comfortable with my 36 shooting a lot of rounds even though it's steel, there are part of the frame it's very thin particularly where the barrel screw onto the frame. The new scandium alloy seems to have a more robust design than the old model 36.


Just want to hear from people here.

Thanks

[Skippy]

I can't answer your question except to say stouter ammo through a lightweight handgun will not be fun.

When you say you'd be shooting *a lot* of +p, would that be a lot of SD ammo? Most folk shoot a lot of range ammo and keep the SD ammo for SD.

.38 is expensive enough without practicing with even pricier +p.

_______________
*I'd give right arm to be ambidextrous*

[Jim Watson]

Scandium Chief with +P kicks like a S.O.B.
I fired two and handed the gun back to the owner.
I think it would be hard to wear one out. Just too unpleasant.

[Recycled bullet]

Smith & Wesson 340 is a really nice gun. I've been itching for a 340pd for a while. I have Smith & Wesson model 60 which is a stainless steel 357 chambered J frame snub nose. Are you handloading?

The recoil through these small guns is heroic.
My stainless steel snub recoils harder than a 480 Ruger, harder than a 44 Magnum, harder than a 460 Smith & Wesson, when I am shooting 170 grain bullets with h110.

It is the hardest recoiling gun I have ever fired. I'm not kidding it feels like slamming your hand in a car door over and over.
It recoils so hard it scares the heck out of people.

Of course there is the sliding scale the harder you use the tool the faster you're going to wear it out.

Have you handled a Ruger LCR?
I think that either the LCR or the 340pd will be my next revolver purchase if some black hawk, red hawk or 686 doesn't intercept me first

[Alan0354]

Originally Posted by Jim Watson

Scandium Chief with +P kicks like a S.O.B.
I fired two and handed the gun back to the owner.
I think it would be hard to wear one out. Just too unpleasant.

I practice with reloads before, maybe I shouldn't even consider +P.

My question should really be clearer that I am asking whether the scandium is actually stronger than steel. I actually not comfortable shooting hotter 38(not even +P) with my 36.

[Skippy]

Originally Posted by Alan0354

I practice with reloads before, maybe I shouldn't even consider +P.

My question should really be clearer that I am asking whether the scandium is actually stronger than steel. I actually not comfortable shooting hotter 38(not even +P) with my 36.

Should be ok with regular .38s and even better with standard wadcutters because they have even less recoil than standard FMJs.

On older pistols I'd routinely inspect for cracks in the frame, particularly around the forcing cone and other stress points during cleaning sessions.

_______________
*I'd give right arm to be ambidextrous*

[DaleA]

I am asking whether the scandium is actually stronger than steel

An interesting question and thanks for the clarification.

I'll be interested when some of the folk here that know about these things answers.

A scandium frame would be kind of cool to own just for bragging rights. That said I FULLY understand the comments about light weight guns being unpleasant to shoot. I shot a Ruger LCR .357 magnum with 158 grain Magtech .357 magnum rounds and it was one cylinder (5 shots) and done for me. I just won't do that again.

Good luck.

[Bill DeShivs]

"Scandium" is an aluminum alloy that contains a small amount of scandium. As a general rule, steel is stronger than aluminum alloys.
Aluminum alloys can be stronger than steel for it's weight.

[Alan0354]

I am not familiar with scandium alloy. Is it a lot stronger than aluminum alloy or just a little. I am talking about the actual strength, NOT strength for it's weight.

I had a 37 aluminum J-frame, I sold it, I was really not comfortable with it. The only reason I look at the 340 is it's a 357. The idea is if it's good enough for 357, it must be strong. I don't think the model 37 can even take a few shots of 357.

[44 AMP]

There is a saying among designers, "cheap, light, durable,....pick any TWO"

You may rest assured that any gun put out by every major US maker will be physically safe firing the highest pressure ammo SAAMI allows for that cartridge.

Now, HOW LONG (round count - SAAMI spec ammo) it will go before something needs adjustment/tuning or repair is a different matter, and if you want to know that, ask the people who made it. IF they can't or won't tell you, no one can.

I've got a Colt .38 snub nose. Back when Colt made it (and the years when they still supported it) Colt said it was ok to shoot +P in it. BUT, Colt ALSO SAID "send us the gun after every 1,000 rnds, so we can check it".

the idea behind small light weight pistols is that they be carried a lot and shot very little. Something it seems few people seem to understand, these days....

[L-2]

I don't shoot my J-frames much, compared to my Glocks or 1911s.

My ~20 year old 642-1 (not a Model 36, 340, or 360, but may be considered similar) has ~4400 rounds through it and it's been working 100% fine.

I've also had a 442-1 which broke an internal stud at ~1100 rounds. S&W replaced that gun under warranty, however, it took ~3 months (allow an extra 2 weeks for an FFL to receive and check-in the new gun, plus another 10-day wait to re-dros the firearm for Calif's waiting period. The FFL may even charge for receiving a handgun for transfer, but S&W may reimburse for any transfer/DRoS fees). Any gun could break while others just haven't broken yet.

If the OP wants another J-frame, whether 340 or 360, then get it. If it breaks, then the Model 36, or even a 3rd J-frame can suffice until S&W sends a repaired or new 340/360 back to the OP.

Note, 4400 rounds is ~$2,500 in ammo to put matters in perspective. I know of no data or history regarding how many rounds any J-frame will last.

I found the cost/benefits of a scandium alloy to not be worth it to me vs. the aluminum alloy Airweight J-frames. I also like and will carry my all-steel J-frames as, with various belt-holsters, I can handle the extra weight. I agree, the all-steel J-frames are heavier and I typically won't be pocket-carrying my 640 or 60, but could if I really had to.

[JimCunn]

"My question should really be clearer that I am asking whether the scandium is actually stronger than steel".

It is not.

[Nathan]

I have a 340. It is a great carry gun.

Scandium is stronger than aluminum. It must be strong enough to hold that j frame together with 357’s. I’ve shot 357’s. Way too ouchie to carry or even consider for sd. There are no 357 rated grips imo.

Scandium is not flame cutting resistant, so they have a steel patch to keep the gap from frame cutting the scandium.

Scandium is not strong from a surface hardness or flexing viewpoint. Banging the ejection rod and/or squeezing the cylinder to use speedloaders will leave the cylinder jammed up alongside your frame.

I converted to moonclips to smooth reloads. It is now a great carry gun.

[Nick_C_S]

I like the size of the 36, it's just heavy.

Hmm, a 36 is too heavy? I carry a 686 and it's never bothered me. I'm an average sized guy.

My question for firing 38 +P only(forget 357), which one can last longer assuming I shoot a lot. Basically, I am comparing between scandium alloy vs steel frame.

I don't know. But when I shoot my model 60 (38 Special, not a 357), it's almost always with +P ammo. Now I only occasionally shoot my model 60, but occasionally X 38 years = quite a bit. I have no doubt it'll shoot as good as the day it was made long after I've departed this earthly plane. Point is, I don't think the long-term durability of either model is much of an issue.

[44 AMP]

Scandium is stronger than aluminum.

not exactly.

"Scandium" is an aluminum alloy that contains a small amount of scandium.

Bill got it right. "Scandium" is the market name for the aluminum alloy used. It has some scandium in it, the way chrome moly steel contains chromium and molybdenum.

Calling it "Scandium" means people don't immediately think of the light weak, brittle aluminum alloy used in aluminum cans. Its a marketing term, a name intended to help sell the product.

There are no 357 rated grips imo.

Sure there are, imo. They're just all on bigger, heavier guns!

[Jim Watson]

It has some scandium in it,

Wiki says the worldwide usage of scandium is maybe 20 tons a year, total.

[Alan0354]

Anyone has a link or pdf diagram of the schematic of 340 or 360? That is the parts diagram?

Thanks

[Recycled bullet]

I may still have the old kunhausen repair manual book. I will look.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Alan0354

My question should really be clearer that I am asking whether the scandium is actually stronger than steel.

Of course not. Don't be fooled by the old "pound for pound ___ is stronger than steel" when ___ is ten times lighter than steel so you need eight times as much of it (by weight) to equal the strength of steel, and ten times as much to exceed the strength of steel.

Scandium is a metal. It is also insanely expensive. S&W's "Scandium" is basically an aluminum alloy with a trace amount of Scandium as one of the alloy materials added to the aluminum matrix. The Scandium alloy is somewhat stronger than the aluminum alloys used be many other firearms manufacturers, but it's not equal to steel in tensile strength or in abrasion (wear) resistance.

[JERRYS.]

J frames are for discrete concealed carry. Scandium helps meet that goal far better than steel.

[Recycled bullet]

Last weekend I handled a Smith & Wesson model 340pd and a Smith & Wesson model 360. The lack of mass is the first thing I noticed, a type of lightness that was difficult for me to fully appreciate and understand until it's felt in my hand. I'm considering purchasing the 360 considering it is lightly used and $600 vs $1,200. I think it will be an excellent paramore to my Smith & Wesson model 60 - 9.

[wild cat mccane]

Double barreled questions...but it seems like one of the questions is if the 36 is fine for lots of shooting of shooting vs the airweights...right?

[Recycled bullet]

The aluminum frame revolver guns will have a shorter interval of maintenance, will be more sensitive to stress failures and cleanliness will help them last longer.

If Smith & Wesson would hire me to perform durability testing ....I am certain that if I was wearing leather gloves and had a trash can full of loaded hks36a speed loaders I could batter and shoot loose in one day a scandium frame 357 but that's not what the gun was designed for.

Just keep an eye on cylinder play/shake/rattle, yoke alignment, the extractor rod doesn't get bent etc, keep the barrel forcing cone clean.

If you hand load with lower bullet weights you can reduce the recoil and find something that shoots well while still reducing down time due to maintenance/service and cleaning.

For example a 115 or 125 grain bullet will recoil less than a 158 or 170 grain in 38 Special assuming both are loaded to standard pressure or similar pressures.

[Recycled bullet]

I am unfortunately unable to locate the repair manual.

[natman]

A scandium aluminum alloy frame will be stronger than a plain aluminum frame.

A steel frame will be stronger than either.

If you want to shoot a steady diet of +P, you'd better off with a steel frame. Or better still a K-frame.