Redding S type FL bushing die?

blackswamp · November 28, 2015, 09:19 PM

I'm looking to Maybe try something different for next year for my local rifle matches. Right now I use a RCBS neck sizing die only. (223 Remington)
I've done a little researching on the web & would like to pick up a Lee collet die & maybe a Redding S type FL bushing die. My question is can I use the Redding die with the bushing & all the internal parts out & be able Full length & bump the shoulder back say .001 -.002?
Then I could use the Lee collet die to do the neck.

cw308 · November 28, 2015, 10:07 PM

Blackswamp, I tried the Redding S Type bushing die F/L to adjust neck tension. With the bushing & the stem removed it will adjust your headspace .001-2, the problem I find, my runout with the bushing die was average .003 Switched back to the original RCBS F/L die adjusted my head space to .001 headspace runout averages .001 Stopped neck sizing awhile ago. All my cases chamber exactly the same, accuracy is better. Neck sizing your headspace is not the same & you take the chance in gauling the bolt locking lugs.

Clark · December 1, 2015, 02:52 PM

I used a Redding FL "S" die for years.
It was my most expensive and best looking 223 die, of many dies.
I believed it was the best.

Then 12/31/2008 I did two days of testing for a controlled test with 25 randomly picked pieces of brass with each set of 25 dedicated to a die, and fired, and sized, and fired and sized, etc.

I was measuring cumulative run out and case length growth.

To my surprise, the hierarchy was upside down:
1st place) Lee Collet neck die
2nd place) a tie between; RCBS, Lee FL, Forster, and Bonanza.
3rd place) Redding FL "S" die

So the cheap and ugly Collet Neck Die that gathered dust on the shelf all those years was best.....
And the expensive and good looking Redding FL "S" die was the worst....

I wonder what other things I believe that are wrong.

cw308 · December 1, 2015, 03:31 PM

Clark, I felt the same way. The F/L sizing die that I started reloading 25+ years ago worked best in run out & grouping. I use with the Redding competition shell holders set of 5 keeps headspace to a minimum .001 I just changed the way I clean my brass, wet tumbling with Stainless Steel Pins, makes my fired brass look like new inside & out.

603Country · December 1, 2015, 07:47 PM

I did about the same test that Clark did, also with a 223. The Lee Collet Die gave best accuracy. Some folks combine the Collet die use with a Body Die at every reloading. I just use the Collet Die till I feel the cases get a little snug, then I use the Body Die. If you aren't loading hot, the cases can be reloaded several times before needing the shoulder moved back.

cw308 · December 2, 2015, 08:51 AM

603 Country, the Lee collet did it a neck die? I only full size to .001 headspace with the standard RCBS F/L bid, work for me.

stubbicatt · December 2, 2015, 02:32 PM

Another option is to have C&H Tool and Die make you a custom full length sizing die, or have Forster hone out the neck of one of their sizing dies to the dimensions you specify.

I have found that when using a bushing die, or a custom FL sizing die, a little neck turning is helpful.

cw308 · December 2, 2015, 03:19 PM

Stubbicatt, I don't neck turn my brass, I don't think honing a die would work.

Clark · December 2, 2015, 03:28 PM

I don't turn necks and I really like honed out neck sizer dies.
Call up Forster and tell them you want to buy a 223 FL sizer body and you want to also pay to have the neck honed out to 0.245". Or 0.2445" now they offer half sizes. You will not be disappointed.

Or buy a Lee Collet neck die in .223 and read the instructions on how far to screw it into the press. You will not be disappointed.

603Country · December 2, 2015, 06:07 PM

Cw308, yes the Lee Collet Die is a neck sizing die. It sizes the neck around a mandrel, which supposedly (and seems to) keep neck runout to a minimum. One thing I like about it is that that Collet Die doesn't care what your neck wall thickness is, unlike the Bushing Dies.

Most likely you would eventually need to FL size the brass, but that depends a lot on how mild or hot your reloads are. With mild loads, it may be quite a few reloads before FL sizing is needed.

November 28, 2015, 09:19 PM	#1
blackswamp Member Join Date: December 12, 2014 Posts: 24	Redding S type FL bushing die? I'm looking to Maybe try something different for next year for my local rifle matches. Right now I use a RCBS neck sizing die only. (223 Remington) I've done a little researching on the web & would like to pick up a Lee collet die & maybe a Redding S type FL bushing die. My question is can I use the Redding die with the bushing & all the internal parts out & be able Full length & bump the shoulder back say .001 -.002? Then I could use the Lee collet die to do the neck.

December 1, 2015, 02:52 PM	#3
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	I used a Redding FL "S" die for years. It was my most expensive and best looking 223 die, of many dies. I believed it was the best. Then 12/31/2008 I did two days of testing for a controlled test with 25 randomly picked pieces of brass with each set of 25 dedicated to a die, and fired, and sized, and fired and sized, etc. I was measuring cumulative run out and case length growth. To my surprise, the hierarchy was upside down: 1st place) Lee Collet neck die 2nd place) a tie between; RCBS, Lee FL, Forster, and Bonanza. 3rd place) Redding FL "S" die So the cheap and ugly Collet Neck Die that gathered dust on the shelf all those years was best..... And the expensive and good looking Redding FL "S" die was the worst.... I wonder what other things I believe that are wrong. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

December 2, 2015, 03:28 PM	#9
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	I don't turn necks and I really like honed out neck sizer dies. Call up Forster and tell them you want to buy a 223 FL sizer body and you want to also pay to have the neck honed out to 0.245". Or 0.2445" now they offer half sizes. You will not be disappointed. Or buy a Lee Collet neck die in .223 and read the instructions on how far to screw it into the press. You will not be disappointed. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

November 28, 2015, 10:07 PM	#2
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	Blackswamp, I tried the Redding S Type bushing die F/L to adjust neck tension. With the bushing & the stem removed it will adjust your headspace .001-2, the problem I find, my runout with the bushing die was average .003 Switched back to the original RCBS F/L die adjusted my head space to .001 headspace runout averages .001 Stopped neck sizing awhile ago. All my cases chamber exactly the same, accuracy is better. Neck sizing your headspace is not the same & you take the chance in gauling the bolt locking lugs.

December 1, 2015, 03:31 PM	#4
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	Clark, I felt the same way. The F/L sizing die that I started reloading 25+ years ago worked best in run out & grouping. I use with the Redding competition shell holders set of 5 keeps headspace to a minimum .001 I just changed the way I clean my brass, wet tumbling with Stainless Steel Pins, makes my fired brass look like new inside & out.

December 1, 2015, 07:47 PM	#5
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	I did about the same test that Clark did, also with a 223. The Lee Collet Die gave best accuracy. Some folks combine the Collet die use with a Body Die at every reloading. I just use the Collet Die till I feel the cases get a little snug, then I use the Body Die. If you aren't loading hot, the cases can be reloaded several times before needing the shoulder moved back.

December 2, 2015, 08:51 AM	#6
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	603 Country, the Lee collet did it a neck die? I only full size to .001 headspace with the standard RCBS F/L bid, work for me.

December 2, 2015, 02:32 PM	#7
stubbicatt Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Posts: 1,707	Another option is to have C&H Tool and Die make you a custom full length sizing die, or have Forster hone out the neck of one of their sizing dies to the dimensions you specify. I have found that when using a bushing die, or a custom FL sizing die, a little neck turning is helpful.

December 2, 2015, 03:19 PM	#8
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	Stubbicatt, I don't neck turn my brass, I don't think honing a die would work.

December 2, 2015, 06:07 PM	#10
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Cw308, yes the Lee Collet Die is a neck sizing die. It sizes the neck around a mandrel, which supposedly (and seems to) keep neck runout to a minimum. One thing I like about it is that that Collet Die doesn't care what your neck wall thickness is, unlike the Bushing Dies. Most likely you would eventually need to FL size the brass, but that depends a lot on how mild or hot your reloads are. With mild loads, it may be quite a few reloads before FL sizing is needed.