Any thoughts about the new PSA PS9 Dagger?

Austin HiPowers · February 8, 2020, 03:47 PM

The Palmetto State Armory PS9 Dagger was introduced on the shot-show as a $299 Glock killer. Based on the Gen 3 19. I personally have no experience with PSA, but this looks like a decent gun for a great price, I might actually go get one. Besides the price, the Gen 3 is a proven reliable shooter. Does anyone have experience with PSA?

Siggy-06 · February 8, 2020, 03:59 PM

PSA has been good to me, mostly for AR related purchases. I'll wait a while to see more reviews on the Dagger, make sure theres no bugs.

TunnelRat · February 8, 2020, 07:14 PM

I think the question will be can they keep up with demand and will we ever see them in local stores. A lot of PSA products sell out very frequently. That’s good from the perspective of their products sell, but it makes getting one tough for a number of months when they are initially released. Also, if they never appear anywhere other than online then I don’t see them as a Glock killer. Selling direct to consumers is great as it cuts costs for the consumer, but the consumer has to know about your product to go find it. Many people on the forum here are enthusiasts, but many more people that buy firearms buy what they see in the store. If we’re talking the mass installment basis of Glock, then I think you have to get a product to the point of in store sales to approach that.

I will add I’m still interested in one.

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ThomasT · February 8, 2020, 08:28 PM

I had to look at them on line to see what they were. Looks just like my SW9VE in a lot of ways. A gun I also paid $300 for and got a $40 rebate and two free factory mags with it.

I hope they do well with their sales. I am on the hunt for a Glock but will most likely just get the real thing and be done with it.

mrray13 · February 8, 2020, 09:25 PM

I think TunnelRat has some solid points about people wanting to get their hands on this, BUT, since it shares soooooo much with the gen 3 19, I'm going to assume a lot of folks are going to have this train of thought...

PSA is not hiding the fact it's a Glock clone that shares parts, including trigger group, and magazines. That tells them it's going to feel just like a Glock, albeit with some grip mods, and they are going to want it. Especially since it's a Glock for less money and more options.

In short, it's going to sell, and sell well, unless by some stroke of bad luck, it doesn't work like a Glock.

Forte S+W · February 8, 2020, 10:00 PM

If Smith & Wesson couldn't beat Glock with their lower cost yet high quality SIGMA Series of pistols, even after numerous revisions and improvements to the platform which have long since addressed every practical issue, (No, 8lbs isn't too heavy for a DA trigger, eat a Cheeseburger and get some exercise.) nor their M&P Series of pistols which are priced competitively and effectively 1-UPed the Glock at launch, then nothing ever will.

Glock has effectively become the Colt of Polymer-Framed Semiautomatic Pistols, they're no longer the undisputed best and have tons of tough competition, but folks continue to buy them based solely on their reputation.

TunnelRat · February 8, 2020, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Glock has effectively become the Colt of Polymer-Framed Semiautomatic Pistols, they're no longer the undisputed best and have tons of tough competition, but folks continue to buy them based solely on their reputation.

I buy them because I like them despite having owned M&P 1.0s, M&P 2.0s, XDs, XDms, P99s, PPQs, P10cs, SR9s, VP9s, FNSs, APXs, P320s, etc. I owned all of those and kept the Glocks.

Now that said, do people buy them because of their reputations? Absolutely. There are people that walk into stores and ask for a Glock, simply because the name is familiar.

Quote:

No, 8lbs isn't too heavy for a DA trigger, eat a Cheeseburger and get some exercise.)

Shooting and overall fitness aren't really one in the same (you can be fat and still shoot well, I've seen it). Can an 8 lb. trigger be shot? Of course. But why? Even S&W realized that with the M&P. The triggers on the 2.0s are head and shoulders above what even the first M&Ps were like.

Forte S+W · February 8, 2020, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Shooting and overall fitness aren't really one in the same (you can be fat and still shoot well, I've seen it). Can an 8 lb. trigger be shot? Of course. But why? Even S&W realized that with the M&P. The triggers on the 2.0s are head and shoulders above what even the first M&Ps were like.

Except for when your fingers are apparently so weak that pulling a mere eight point trigger is strenuous.

Seriously, Revolvers and various Semiautomatic Pistols had Double Action Triggers which were 8lbs or more for generations, yet few folks back in those days whined about it being too heavy in spite of the existence of firearms with substantially lighter SA triggers like the 1911, nor did they attempt to claim that the weight of said triggers made accuracy impossible.
In fact, some of the most highly praised, popular firearms in the past had substantially heavier triggers like the Walther PPK. So how is it that the 8lb DA Trigger on a S&W SD gets trash-talked left and right? Heck, even the lighter 5lb triggers on Glocks receive their fair share of belly-aching. It's ridiculous.

TunnelRat · February 9, 2020, 12:48 AM

I don't think people are really so weak they can't pull the trigger. I think the point is the trigger is heavier than a number of other options. Triggers can be closer to each other if we are talking one DA/SA versus another. Even then, however, people have noted that the DA on certain HKs was notably heavier than some other DA/SA pistols. Or they compared the triggers on Ruger Security Sixes to the Model 19, Colt Trooper, etc. People have been having custom work done to the triggers of their firearms since well before the Sigma stepped onto the stage.

Maybe people today really do complain more, it could be. I think the internet allows that perception to build more easily simply because it's easier to share and read the opinions of others. From my experience, people notice things. If the argument is they should just get over it, yeah I suppose, but in a free market they can choose to buy other options. And for many that's what they do. For a manufacturer when people choose to buy the competition that's not a winning strategy.

USNRet93 · February 9, 2020, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forte S+W

If Smith & Wesson couldn't beat Glock with their lower cost yet high quality SIGMA Series of pistols, even after numerous revisions and improvements to the platform which have long since addressed every practical issue, (No, 8lbs isn't too heavy for a DA trigger, eat a Cheeseburger and get some exercise.) nor their M&P Series of pistols which are priced competitively and effectively 1-UPed the Glock at launch, then nothing ever will.

Glock has effectively become the Colt of Polymer-Framed Semiautomatic Pistols, they're no longer the undisputed best and have tons of tough competition, but folks continue to buy them based solely on their reputation.

And because they are generally 100% reliable, accurate, not expensive and are supported by a TON of after market 'stuff'..NOT based solely on reputation, IMHO..

Well, their reputation is a gun that's 100% reliable out of the box, very accurate and not expensive with TONS of aftermarket 'stuff'..so I guess, that reputation...

sigarms228 · February 9, 2020, 01:11 PM

Interesting to read but around here new Gen 3 Glock 19 are going for around $399. For that price I would rather stay with Glock but always nice to see more firearms available.

TunnelRat · February 9, 2020, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigarms228

Interesting to read but around here new Gen 3 Glock 19 are going for around $399. For that price I would rather stay with Glock but always nice to see more firearms available.

Is that in store? I see that online (ironically the last time was from PSA) but not in store, at least for my location. If you’re seeing that in store then yeah that certainly closes the gap. I think stores around me are at $500 for a Gen 3 or $550 for a Gen 4/5.

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sigarms228 · February 9, 2020, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TunnelRat

Is that in store? I see that online (ironically the last time was from PSA) but not in store, at least for my location. If you’re seeing that in store then yeah that certainly closes the gap. I think stores around me are at $500 for a Gen 3 or $550 for a Gen 4/5.

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Yeah I have gotten emails from a couple local stores with the $399 price "on sale" not sure the every day price but they run sales pretty regularly including a local Point Blank store. I will have to check their regular price next time I am there.

TunnelRat · February 9, 2020, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigarms228

Yeah I have gotten emails from a couple local stores with the $399 price "on sale" not sure the every day price but they run sales pretty regularly including a local Point Blank store. I will have to check their regular price next time I am there.

That’s a good deal.

I suppose one response Glock could have (if they felt they needed a response) is to just lower the price on their Gen 3s. I think part of the reason Gen 3 is still around, besides people just liking it, is that it’s already approved in CA. But at some point I’d imagine they’ll not have three generations of pistols for sale simultaneously.

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Whirlwind06 · February 9, 2020, 03:47 PM

Gen 3 glocks are the 1911 of polymer world. There are high end ones and now we have a rock island glock

Seems they all fix the grip angle a bit.

I agree that they have to be at retail locations if they want to sell to the masses.

If I understand it correctly the first gen Sigma was so close to Glock that S&W was sued by Glock and lost.

That's when the funky trigger came out. Also the if the DA trigger on the Sigma was like a Kahr or Beretta it would not be bad. It's some kind of stacky mushy hot mess IMO.

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Bill DeShivs · February 9, 2020, 03:56 PM

"Dagger" is a stupid name for a handgun.
Bad marketing.

Forte S+W · February 9, 2020, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whirlwind06

If I understand it correctly the first gen Sigma was so close to Glock that S&W was sued by Glock and lost.

Not quite, but that is how most online versions of the story go...

In reality, nobody besides Smith & Wesson or Glock knows the exact details because it was settled out of court, and neither company has ever shared specific details.

Rumor has it that Smith & Wesson paid Glock royalties on the SIGMA Series right up until the release of the Gen 4 SD Series which was redesigned as part of an agreement, but that doesn't add up because the SD still shares all of the major similarities between the SIGMA and Glock.
Another rumor with a bit more validity to it is that the SIGMA was never in fact similar enough to the Glock to infringe on any of their patents, but Glock jumped the gun and filed a lawsuit they couldn't win and upon closer inspection discovered this, prompting them to issue an ultimatum to a wide array of retailers that if they carried the SIGMA, then Glock would cease to do business with them. Supposedly this worked, and a lot of big retailers wouldn't even carry the SIGMA, so eventually Smith & Wesson approached Glock, offering them a settlement so that Glock would lift the ultimatum.

But rumors are just that... Hearsay, speculation, and often times outright conjecture. There are all sorts of wild theories on what actually happened, including a particularly ludicrous one which gets repeated quite often that SIGMAs have heavy triggers because of said lawsuit, either because of changes S&W made to address patent infringement or because Glock essentially forced S&W to make the trigger excessively heavy in order to make it less desirable. Meanwhile, in reality, the trigger on the Gen 1 SW40F was actually worse than later post-settlement models, so that theory is complete nonsense, but people quote it as truth all the time.

ThomasT · February 9, 2020, 10:06 PM

The trigger on the SW and SD pistols are easily made better and there are after market trigger kits if you want to go that way. But my complaint is not with the trigger pull but the long reset. The reset is almost as long as a double action revolver. In contrast the triggers on my 39-2 and 915 reset in what must be no more than a quarter inch of forward travel.

Austin HiPowers · February 15, 2020, 09:20 PM

If anybody gets their hands on one, let us know. I am very curious for sure.

Austin HiPowers · May 16, 2021, 07:54 AM

I saw on a PSA page that they, after more then a year, finally started shipping the Dagger, I am very curious and might want to get one (especially for that price). Anybody got one of these?

Carl the Floor Walker · May 16, 2021, 08:24 AM

Interesting

MarkCO · May 16, 2021, 09:20 AM

They will sell as many as they can make. But I know I won't see them in the two LGS I go to. Neither will carry PSA stuff, not because it is bad, but because there is not enough margin in them to make it worth carrying. Same of the Dagger. The LGS will make twice the $ selling a Glock, SIG, Ruger or S&W on sale as they will selling a PSA firearm at MSRP. Polymer frame pistols are, for all involved in the commerce side, the highest profit margin firearms sold in the USA. Seems PSA is willing to cut out several of the middle men and sell them at a lower margin.

I'd still like to shoot one and put it through the paces because I like guns and it looks interesting.

Austin HiPowers · May 18, 2021, 08:50 PM

Apparently the trigger needs some improvement. Other then that

https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=I...ature=youtu.be

wild cat mccane · May 19, 2021, 05:20 PM

Given how many versions of everything they make, na.

Hard pass.

mpolk · May 20, 2021, 09:22 PM

I have done FFL transfers on 4 of them so far. I managed to purchase one this afternoon. Sold out in 2 minutes. The grip feels better than a Glock. The trigger is not bad but very gritty. Polishing internals should make a big difference. Metal sights. Undercut trigger housing is good. Only comes with one 15rd PMag but will take g19 and g17 mags. Definitely worth $299.

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February 8, 2020, 03:47 PM	#1
Austin HiPowers Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2006 Location: Little South of Miami Posts: 147	Any thoughts about the new PSA PS9 Dagger? The Palmetto State Armory PS9 Dagger was introduced on the shot-show as a $299 Glock killer. Based on the Gen 3 19. I personally have no experience with PSA, but this looks like a decent gun for a great price, I might actually go get one. Besides the price, the Gen 3 is a proven reliable shooter. Does anyone have experience with PSA?

February 8, 2020, 03:59 PM	#2
Siggy-06 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2014 Location: Florida Posts: 1,148	PSA has been good to me, mostly for AR related purchases. I'll wait a while to see more reviews on the Dagger, make sure theres no bugs. __________________ Flicks just like a lighter, just a different kind of fire.

February 8, 2020, 10:00 PM	#6
Forte S+W Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2019 Posts: 819	If Smith & Wesson couldn't beat Glock with their lower cost yet high quality SIGMA Series of pistols, even after numerous revisions and improvements to the platform which have long since addressed every practical issue, (No, 8lbs isn't too heavy for a DA trigger, eat a Cheeseburger and get some exercise.) nor their M&P Series of pistols which are priced competitively and effectively 1-UPed the Glock at launch, then nothing ever will. Glock has effectively become the Colt of Polymer-Framed Semiautomatic Pistols, they're no longer the undisputed best and have tons of tough competition, but folks continue to buy them based solely on their reputation. __________________ Conspiracy theorists are the greatest political spin-doctors of all time. Only they can make the absolute worst political blunders sound like spectacular feats of ingenuity.

February 9, 2020, 12:48 AM	#9
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	I don't think people are really so weak they can't pull the trigger. I think the point is the trigger is heavier than a number of other options. Triggers can be closer to each other if we are talking one DA/SA versus another. Even then, however, people have noted that the DA on certain HKs was notably heavier than some other DA/SA pistols. Or they compared the triggers on Ruger Security Sixes to the Model 19, Colt Trooper, etc. People have been having custom work done to the triggers of their firearms since well before the Sigma stepped onto the stage. Maybe people today really do complain more, it could be. I think the internet allows that perception to build more easily simply because it's easier to share and read the opinions of others. From my experience, people notice things. If the argument is they should just get over it, yeah I suppose, but in a free market they can choose to buy other options. And for many that's what they do. For a manufacturer when people choose to buy the competition that's not a winning strategy. __________________ Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness

February 9, 2020, 01:11 PM	#11
sigarms228 Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 2011 Posts: 1,768	Interesting to read but around here new Gen 3 Glock 19 are going for around $399. For that price I would rather stay with Glock but always nice to see more firearms available. __________________ “When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.” ― Benjamin Franklin

February 8, 2020, 07:14 PM	#3
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	I think the question will be can they keep up with demand and will we ever see them in local stores. A lot of PSA products sell out very frequently. That’s good from the perspective of their products sell, but it makes getting one tough for a number of months when they are initially released. Also, if they never appear anywhere other than online then I don’t see them as a Glock killer. Selling direct to consumers is great as it cuts costs for the consumer, but the consumer has to know about your product to go find it. Many people on the forum here are enthusiasts, but many more people that buy firearms buy what they see in the store. If we’re talking the mass installment basis of Glock, then I think you have to get a product to the point of in store sales to approach that. I will add I’m still interested in one. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

February 8, 2020, 08:28 PM	#4
ThomasT Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 2,753	I had to look at them on line to see what they were. Looks just like my SW9VE in a lot of ways. A gun I also paid $300 for and got a $40 rebate and two free factory mags with it. I hope they do well with their sales. I am on the hunt for a Glock but will most likely just get the real thing and be done with it.

February 8, 2020, 09:25 PM	#5
mrray13 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2008 Location: Missouri Posts: 911	I think TunnelRat has some solid points about people wanting to get their hands on this, BUT, since it shares soooooo much with the gen 3 19, I'm going to assume a lot of folks are going to have this train of thought... PSA is not hiding the fact it's a Glock clone that shares parts, including trigger group, and magazines. That tells them it's going to feel just like a Glock, albeit with some grip mods, and they are going to want it. Especially since it's a Glock for less money and more options. In short, it's going to sell, and sell well, unless by some stroke of bad luck, it doesn't work like a Glock.

February 9, 2020, 03:47 PM	#15
Whirlwind06 Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2006 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 998	Gen 3 glocks are the 1911 of polymer world. There are high end ones and now we have a rock island glock Seems they all fix the grip angle a bit. I agree that they have to be at retail locations if they want to sell to the masses. If I understand it correctly the first gen Sigma was so close to Glock that S&W was sued by Glock and lost. That's when the funky trigger came out. Also the if the DA trigger on the Sigma was like a Kahr or Beretta it would not be bad. It's some kind of stacky mushy hot mess IMO. Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

February 9, 2020, 03:56 PM	#16
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	"Dagger" is a stupid name for a handgun. Bad marketing. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

February 9, 2020, 10:06 PM	#18
ThomasT Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 2,753	The trigger on the SW and SD pistols are easily made better and there are after market trigger kits if you want to go that way. But my complaint is not with the trigger pull but the long reset. The reset is almost as long as a double action revolver. In contrast the triggers on my 39-2 and 915 reset in what must be no more than a quarter inch of forward travel.

February 15, 2020, 09:20 PM	#19
Austin HiPowers Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2006 Location: Little South of Miami Posts: 147	If anybody gets their hands on one, let us know. I am very curious for sure.

May 16, 2021, 07:54 AM	#20
Austin HiPowers Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2006 Location: Little South of Miami Posts: 147	I saw on a PSA page that they, after more then a year, finally started shipping the Dagger, I am very curious and might want to get one (especially for that price). Anybody got one of these?

May 16, 2021, 08:24 AM	#21
Carl the Floor Walker member Join Date: June 3, 2017 Location: South Posts: 1,422	Interesting Last edited by Carl the Floor Walker; May 19, 2021 at 03:23 AM.

May 16, 2021, 09:20 AM	#22
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,308	They will sell as many as they can make. But I know I won't see them in the two LGS I go to. Neither will carry PSA stuff, not because it is bad, but because there is not enough margin in them to make it worth carrying. Same of the Dagger. The LGS will make twice the $ selling a Glock, SIG, Ruger or S&W on sale as they will selling a PSA firearm at MSRP. Polymer frame pistols are, for all involved in the commerce side, the highest profit margin firearms sold in the USA. Seems PSA is willing to cut out several of the middle men and sell them at a lower margin. I'd still like to shoot one and put it through the paces because I like guns and it looks interesting. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

May 18, 2021, 08:50 PM	#23
Austin HiPowers Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2006 Location: Little South of Miami Posts: 147	Apparently the trigger needs some improvement. Other then that https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=I...ature=youtu.be

May 19, 2021, 05:20 PM	#24
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,626	Given how many versions of everything they make, na. Hard pass. __________________ My wife is a pulmonologist (respiratory Dr) and epidemiologist. If you have any questions on COVID, please reach out to me in PM.

May 20, 2021, 09:22 PM	#25
mpolk Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2009 Location: Waco, Texas Posts: 111	I have done FFL transfers on 4 of them so far. I managed to purchase one this afternoon. Sold out in 2 minutes. The grip feels better than a Glock. The trigger is not bad but very gritty. Polishing internals should make a big difference. Metal sights. Undercut trigger housing is good. Only comes with one 15rd PMag but will take g19 and g17 mags. Definitely worth $299. Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk