Speer GDHP Inconsistent bullet length

Dinobert · September 12, 2015, 11:16 AM

Hello everybody. I am fairly new at reloading and new to the firing line (and forums in general). I have been having issues getting consistent OAL when seating my .40 cal, 180 gr bullets. I trim all my cases before loading. And thought I had an error there. Today I decided to check my bullets. All of my Berry's and Hornady XTP's were consistent in length to .002" +/-. When inspecting length on the speer GDHP, i found bullet lengths from .625" up to .637". This was a sample of 5 bullets and no two had the same length. I have two 100 count boxes and they are both inconsistent. Has anyone else had this issue with Speer bullets or did I get a bad batch? I assumed QC at Speer would be better than that.

LE-28 · September 12, 2015, 11:55 AM

Consistant OAL and bullet length variations are two different issues. Just because the Gold dot bullets your using mic at different lengths has nothing to do with the Over all Length of the cartridge after loading.

You press does, your seating die profile does, and to some degree your technique does effect your OAL.

If your seating stem has the correct profile on it to match the profile of the bullet your seating, length variations will be inside the case. If using a single stage press the stroke of the press and die setting is a constant, unless your using a seating die that has a seating stem held in place by friction of a crimp nut instead of a threaded seating stem and lock nut.

If your seating stem, like the Lee type, is slipping your oal will progressively get longer but not shorten. If your profile in your seating die doesn't match the profile of the bullet and you have a lot of case tension on some cases and not so much on others, you will have it coming and going.

If your using a progressive press and resizing mixed brass with different hardness it will mess with your oal also from the flex in the shell plate.

The point is the if the bullets do vary in length as I'm sure most big wide hollowpoints will, The extra length will be inside the case not out where you can see it with calipers.

So if your having OAL problems it could even be caused by the harder cases your reloading due to being shot more than others, partially callapsing the hollowpoint to some degree on some and that may be what your seeing.

T. O'Heir · September 12, 2015, 01:13 PM

Weigh 'em. Consistent weights are more important.
As much as I like Speer stuff(been using their .308" 110 grain HP's for .30 Carbine for eons), they're not really high quality stuff.

Dinobert · September 12, 2015, 02:57 PM

I am using a rockcrusher, single stage press and RCBS dies. There is a threaded lock nut to hold the seating plug. The seating plug is marked SWC (semi wad cutter, I assume). It seems to fit the nose of the GDHP. I am loading XTP's, Berry's plated FP and GDHP. I only seem to have this issue when loading the Gold Dots.

I just loaded 30 rounds of 9mm. 10 with Xtreme RN Plated. All had consistent OAL's when done. I loaded 10 with XTP's, all had consistent OAL. I loaded the last 10 with GDHP. 6 were consistent, 2 were .003 short and two were .004 long. I used the RN seater plug for the Xtreme bullets and the TMJ plug for the XTP and GDHP.

If the seater plug is the issue, is there one that will work better with the wider nose of the GDHP? I only have the plugs that came with the dies when they were purchased.

Also, I agree that bullet length should not make a difference on OAL. Logically it can't. Seating depth should be the only thing affected. Because of my limited experience,this does concern me because a longer bullet will seat deeper, causing more pressure. Should I be concerned with this or is the extra depth not enough for concern?

LE-28 · September 12, 2015, 04:05 PM

.011" won't change anything as far as pressure goes. You don't have much to be worried about. Chances are the difference in the bullet lengths your seeing is inconsistencies with the hollow point.
Probably deformities in the hollow points when they are made.
I agree that weight is more of a concern than .011" in length.

Dinobert · September 12, 2015, 04:17 PM

Thank you for the information. I may just get away from the Gold Dots.

**Unclenick** · September 12, 2015, 09:39 PM

Even match hollow point rifle bullets commonly vary as much as your Speer bullets do. Ballistic coefficients of these vary about 3% due partly to that but mostly to ogive radius variation. Its mainly because the bullets come off mixed sets of tooling. The pistol bullet won't care about the BC variation, nor about the length variation. Squareness of the base and symmetrical mass distribution matter most and uniform weight comes next. A little difference in the nose comes dead last and its effect is very hard to detect even with a machine rest gun until you get past 200 yards where vertical stringing becomes more evident.

black mamba · September 13, 2015, 10:57 AM

My experience certainly mirrors Nick's post. My most accurate load for my 629 Classic is the Gold Dot 270 gr over Accurate 4100. Differences in OAL of loaded rounds is about .005, yet they shoot under 4" groups at 100 yds with a 5 minute red dot sight. Don't sweat the small stuff.

Dinobert · September 18, 2015, 09:14 PM

I greatly appreciate all the input. I also discovered that RCBS makes a seater plug specifically for the GDHP. I may try it as it i only a $6 item, just to see if it makes a difference.

Nick_C_S · September 19, 2015, 09:41 AM

Quote:

I also discovered that RCBS makes a seater plug specifically for the GDHP.

They do. And they work great. I have a bunch of different ones. They not only work great for GDHP's, but for other high-end (Hornady, Sierra) HP's as well.

Mike / Tx · September 20, 2015, 04:19 AM

Dino,

I have been shooting the GD's since they were introduced in several calibers. I have had issues with the deeper wide mouth HP's but when you get the right seating plug your set. My issues were noted when loading the 180gr for my 10mm. I found that the mouth of the HP were not consistant at all. Some would be nice and wide some would get swadged down smaller. I modified a seating plug for them and all is well.

The GD has consistantly shot better groups in my 10mm than any other bullet I have tried except for the Winchester 180gr HP. I use a lot of those for practice then use the GD when I take it hunting for hogs. It isn't a total power house like the 41 or bigger mags, but it will put a 200# hog on the ground under 50yds, usually with a complete pass through.

If your loads are shooting good accuracy wise don't sweat the little things. As long as nothing is moving in the case during firing or chambering you should be good to go.

noylj · September 20, 2015, 09:58 AM

COL variations are seldom a problem. What is a problem is having the bullet set-back in the case during chambering. This was what started the COL "search for perfection."
A 9x19 round that produces 33ksi will produce 60ksi or more if the bullet is set-back by ¼" (0.25"). This was where the whole "fear" came from.
A good seating stem does not touch the bullet's meplat. It contacts the ogive. Proper fit is important. Proper shell plate tension is important.
STOP trimming cases that head space on the case mouth. Increasing head space does not increase accuracy or improve the taper crimp or help in any other way.

Dinobert · September 26, 2015, 11:24 AM

Mike / Tx,

I have the same accuracy success using Gold Dots in my .40. I have ordered the GD seater plug from RCBS and it should arrive this week. I look forward to trying it.

September 12, 2015, 11:16 AM	#1
Dinobert Junior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Posts: 6	Speer GDHP Inconsistent bullet length Hello everybody. I am fairly new at reloading and new to the firing line (and forums in general). I have been having issues getting consistent OAL when seating my .40 cal, 180 gr bullets. I trim all my cases before loading. And thought I had an error there. Today I decided to check my bullets. All of my Berry's and Hornady XTP's were consistent in length to .002" +/-. When inspecting length on the speer GDHP, i found bullet lengths from .625" up to .637". This was a sample of 5 bullets and no two had the same length. I have two 100 count boxes and they are both inconsistent. Has anyone else had this issue with Speer bullets or did I get a bad batch? I assumed QC at Speer would be better than that.

September 12, 2015, 01:13 PM	#3
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Weigh 'em. Consistent weights are more important. As much as I like Speer stuff(been using their .308" 110 grain HP's for .30 Carbine for eons), they're not really high quality stuff. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

September 12, 2015, 09:39 PM	#7
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Even match hollow point rifle bullets commonly vary as much as your Speer bullets do. Ballistic coefficients of these vary about 3% due partly to that but mostly to ogive radius variation. Its mainly because the bullets come off mixed sets of tooling. The pistol bullet won't care about the BC variation, nor about the length variation. Squareness of the base and symmetrical mass distribution matter most and uniform weight comes next. A little difference in the nose comes dead last and its effect is very hard to detect even with a machine rest gun until you get past 200 yards where vertical stringing becomes more evident. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

September 20, 2015, 04:19 AM	#11
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	Dino, I have been shooting the GD's since they were introduced in several calibers. I have had issues with the deeper wide mouth HP's but when you get the right seating plug your set. My issues were noted when loading the 180gr for my 10mm. I found that the mouth of the HP were not consistant at all. Some would be nice and wide some would get swadged down smaller. I modified a seating plug for them and all is well. The GD has consistantly shot better groups in my 10mm than any other bullet I have tried except for the Winchester 180gr HP. I use a lot of those for practice then use the GD when I take it hunting for hogs. It isn't a total power house like the 41 or bigger mags, but it will put a 200# hog on the ground under 50yds, usually with a complete pass through. If your loads are shooting good accuracy wise don't sweat the little things. As long as nothing is moving in the case during firing or chambering you should be good to go. __________________ LAter, Mike / TX

September 12, 2015, 11:55 AM	#2
LE-28 Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2012 Location: North Carolina Posts: 759	Consistant OAL and bullet length variations are two different issues. Just because the Gold dot bullets your using mic at different lengths has nothing to do with the Over all Length of the cartridge after loading. You press does, your seating die profile does, and to some degree your technique does effect your OAL. If your seating stem has the correct profile on it to match the profile of the bullet your seating, length variations will be inside the case. If using a single stage press the stroke of the press and die setting is a constant, unless your using a seating die that has a seating stem held in place by friction of a crimp nut instead of a threaded seating stem and lock nut. If your seating stem, like the Lee type, is slipping your oal will progressively get longer but not shorten. If your profile in your seating die doesn't match the profile of the bullet and you have a lot of case tension on some cases and not so much on others, you will have it coming and going. If your using a progressive press and resizing mixed brass with different hardness it will mess with your oal also from the flex in the shell plate. The point is the if the bullets do vary in length as I'm sure most big wide hollowpoints will, The extra length will be inside the case not out where you can see it with calipers. So if your having OAL problems it could even be caused by the harder cases your reloading due to being shot more than others, partially callapsing the hollowpoint to some degree on some and that may be what your seeing.

September 12, 2015, 02:57 PM	#4
Dinobert Junior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Posts: 6	I am using a rockcrusher, single stage press and RCBS dies. There is a threaded lock nut to hold the seating plug. The seating plug is marked SWC (semi wad cutter, I assume). It seems to fit the nose of the GDHP. I am loading XTP's, Berry's plated FP and GDHP. I only seem to have this issue when loading the Gold Dots. I just loaded 30 rounds of 9mm. 10 with Xtreme RN Plated. All had consistent OAL's when done. I loaded 10 with XTP's, all had consistent OAL. I loaded the last 10 with GDHP. 6 were consistent, 2 were .003 short and two were .004 long. I used the RN seater plug for the Xtreme bullets and the TMJ plug for the XTP and GDHP. If the seater plug is the issue, is there one that will work better with the wider nose of the GDHP? I only have the plugs that came with the dies when they were purchased. Also, I agree that bullet length should not make a difference on OAL. Logically it can't. Seating depth should be the only thing affected. Because of my limited experience,this does concern me because a longer bullet will seat deeper, causing more pressure. Should I be concerned with this or is the extra depth not enough for concern?

September 12, 2015, 04:05 PM	#5
LE-28 Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2012 Location: North Carolina Posts: 759	.011" won't change anything as far as pressure goes. You don't have much to be worried about. Chances are the difference in the bullet lengths your seeing is inconsistencies with the hollow point. Probably deformities in the hollow points when they are made. I agree that weight is more of a concern than .011" in length.

September 12, 2015, 04:17 PM	#6
Dinobert Junior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Posts: 6	Thank you for the information. I may just get away from the Gold Dots.

September 13, 2015, 10:57 AM	#8
black mamba Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2011 Location: SW Florida Posts: 890	My experience certainly mirrors Nick's post. My most accurate load for my 629 Classic is the Gold Dot 270 gr over Accurate 4100. Differences in OAL of loaded rounds is about .005, yet they shoot under 4" groups at 100 yds with a 5 minute red dot sight. Don't sweat the small stuff.

September 18, 2015, 09:14 PM	#9
Dinobert Junior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Posts: 6	I greatly appreciate all the input. I also discovered that RCBS makes a seater plug specifically for the GDHP. I may try it as it i only a $6 item, just to see if it makes a difference.

September 20, 2015, 09:58 AM	#12
noylj Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2007 Location: Between CA and NM Posts: 858	COL variations are seldom a problem. What is a problem is having the bullet set-back in the case during chambering. This was what started the COL "search for perfection." A 9x19 round that produces 33ksi will produce 60ksi or more if the bullet is set-back by ¼" (0.25"). This was where the whole "fear" came from. A good seating stem does not touch the bullet's meplat. It contacts the ogive. Proper fit is important. Proper shell plate tension is important. STOP trimming cases that head space on the case mouth. Increasing head space does not increase accuracy or improve the taper crimp or help in any other way.

September 26, 2015, 11:24 AM	#13
Dinobert Junior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Posts: 6	Mike / Tx, I have the same accuracy success using Gold Dots in my .40. I have ordered the GD seater plug from RCBS and it should arrive this week. I look forward to trying it.