Accurate 308 autoloader?

[T. O'Heir]

"...bolt action not being well-suited for the latter..." Not exactly true, but neither is any centre fire rifle. It's about the excessive penetration and range of any centre fire cartridge. You are 100% responsible for any shot you fire, for any reason. Hit something or somebody you didn't intend to makes you guilty.
A milsurp .308 bullet will go right through a brick wall at 100 yards with no fuss. Shot a cinder block into wee pieces and dust at 100 doing a demo for my Cadets long ago.
In any case, sub-MOA accuracy isn't required. That is more about the ammo and barrel plus all the other accurizing necessary anyway.
"...the Mini-30..." Isn't even close to MOA, never mind sub-MOA.
"...safety is so close to the trigger..." The real safety in between your ears. The M1 Rifle's safety is in the same place.
The M1A does not jam any more than any mag fed semi-auto. Nor do they slam fire more. That's caused by operator failure. Usually not following through on the shot off a bench. The shooter releases the trigger too soon.
"...a single 20 round M1A magazine..." Look for milsurp M-14 mags. Assuming those are still around.
An M1 Rifle is far too heavy for hunting in Colorado. There's a great deal of 'up' there. Mind you, so is an M1A. An M1 with a wood stock weighs 9.5 pounds. My Winchester, semi'd, M-14 with the issue fibreglas stock weighs 9 pounds.
"...a floating barrel..." Doesn't guarantee anything.

[davidsog]

Ooooh, thank you! I am now lusting after the MSG PTR 106. Pricey, though.

Very Pricey....LOL.

That is a sub MOA rifle whereas the PTR 91 GIR is 1 to 1.5 MOA gun out of the box.

I get that with surplus M80 NATO ammunition. The design seems to love ~150 grain the best and accuracy is not improved with heavier grain weight or more expensive match ammunition. Makes it nice in that the it just seems to love the cheap stuff the best.

Here is what I get from M80 ball at 30 meters. The weapon was correctly zeroed at 30 meters to align ballistically with the stock iron sight design. It represents just over a MOA accuracy all error combined.

[davidsog]

An M1 with a wood stock weighs 9.5 pounds. My Winchester, semi'd, M-14 with the issue fibreglas stock weighs 9 pounds.

That is empty without a sling or magazine inserted.

With a sling and full magazine it is 11 lbs with a wood stock.

[JJ45]

I have a PTR91 GI Carbine with a 16" barrel. It has a barrel (chamber actually) that was designed to digest any mil surp ammo including the tar sealed types.

Not designed as some of the PTRs are for excellent accuracy so if you want tight groups from a PTR, do your homework for the right model.

But this is the model I preferred in a battle rifle. It certainly is one very robust weapon. I changed a lot of parts for original HK just playing around, including a metal lower with the full auto selector switch, paddle mag release, etc.... It is an older model. The newer GIs have the paddle already factory installed. Original, some brand new, 20 round HK mags are among the cheapest compared to M1A mags, etc.

The roller lock impulse might be different from what your used to and the controls like the selector and charging handle might take some getting used to. Awkward for some shooters.

[Bart B.]

Originally Posted by Petersburg

My LMT MWS .308 delivers a .37" MOA five round group with Prime Ammo 175SMKs at 100 yards, and holds that accuracy out to at least 500 yards. I've not been able to shoot it any further than that.

I don't think that's possible, in my opinion. That's not going to happen. Too many variables in the ammo, atmosphere and shooter.

[jmr40]

The thread is old enough that I hesitate to reply, but here goes.

To the OP, I think there is a better solution to your issue. Trying to make one semi-auto do what you want is just asking too much. The hunting rifles you're considering are unsuitable for defensive uses and are not accurate enough for any precision work.

The combat rifles are rugged and reliable enough and some of them can be pretty accurate. But to get that you're going to have to deal with a 10+ lb rifle that is going to be well into 4 figures and would not the best option for hunting.

For very near $1000 you can get a very good bolt action hunting rifle that will be much more suitable for hunting AND buy a pretty decent AR-15 in 223 that would be a better option for personal defense. You need 2 rifles, and can do it for less money.

If I absolutely had to make 1 rifle work it would be a bolt guns in some variation of a scout rifle.

[Houndog]

I've owned a PTR 91, CMP Garand, and an AR10. Still have the Garand and the AR10. Did not like the recoil or ergonomics of the PTR91, although it did run like a champ.

However, I kind of agree with Ocharry - just get an AR10. It will be shorter and more maneuverable, ergonomics are great, lots of aftermarket parts so you can upgrade trigger, etc. They generally have excellent accuracy. You don't have to mess with a fixed magazine. And you can toss a wide variety of scopes onto one - anything from a red dot to a high power variable scope.

[agtman]

Originally Posted by Petersburg View Post
My LMT MWS .308 delivers a .37" MOA five round group with Prime Ammo 175SMKs at 100 yards, and holds that accuracy out to at least 500 yards. I've not been able to shoot it any further than that.

I don't think that's possible, in my opinion. That's not going to happen. Too many variables in the ammo, atmosphere and shooter.

Even if his LMT MWS's accuracy wasn't '.37" MOA' as claimed, it's main down-side is that it becomes a weighty beast with a scope mounted, bipod, sling, and loaded mag. I've got the LMT LM8 which is supposedly the lighter trimmer variant. It ain't, not really.

My iron-sighted .308 M1 Garand, slung and loaded with a full clip of 7.62 ball, is lighter.

[jetinteriorguy]

I have an AR Stoner upper in 7.62x39 on an Anderson lower with a Nikon 3x9 scope on it that’s sub 2MOA out to 200 yds. Very reliable, hunting/SD accurate and just an all around nice rifle to shoot. No rail, just standard Magpul furniture and a Nickel Boron trigger group with JP springs. Not counting the scope I have about $450.00 in it.

[dgludwig]

If you could find one , maybe a Winchester model 100.

I killed my first whitetail with one chambered in .308 back in 1964. Great rifle and worth the search for one, imo; but I doubt you'll ever find one delivering sub-moa accuracy.

[rc]

M1As are heavy but very robust rifles. They are magazine sensitive and cheap magazines can stretch and lose control of the rounds in the magazine feeding two at a time or jamming. If you go with one, checkmate magazines are supposed to be factory equivalent. The Korean ones are soft and won't last long term. You can get 5 round magazines for them and stripper clips for hunting. Scope mounting is more limited than with for example a BAR or others with a rail.

[Houndog]

Petersburg - you should take any disbelief as a compliment. Most of us, myself included, find that shooting semi-autos with absolute precision is a challenge. It's just easier to believe that we are we are talented shooters and if we can't achieve that kind of accuracy no one can. And of course some skepticism is warranted because there are an awful lot of keyboard marksmen capable of extraordinary feats of skill when they are behind their keyboard, but not so much when they are behind their rifles.

I personally own a couple of Larue uppers that I know are sub MOA (Larue was kind enough to include the test targets). Yet I'm happy if I can consistency shoot 1.25 MOA; and in truth if I'm having a bad day I can end up with a bunch of targets that are north of 1.5 MOA.

Even with a very good rifle a lot of things have to line up for someone to consistently shoot sub MOA. You need the right optic. One of my Larue's has a 1x4 SWFA on it and between the reticle and the magnification I'm always going to struggle a little.

And you need the right target (generally the smaller the better).

And the right ammo, which won't necessarily be the same for every rifle.

And a solid bipod and rear bag.

And a good trigger definitely helps.

And then your technique has to be damn near perfect.

Glad you are getting such good results with your LMT - just keep in mind that you are obviously a talented shooter AND it looks like you lucked out and got a great barrel.

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by jmr40

The thread is old enough that I hesitate to reply, but here goes.

To the OP, I think there is a better solution to your issue. Trying to make one semi-auto do what you want is just asking too much. The hunting rifles you're considering are unsuitable for defensive uses and are not accurate enough for any precision work.

The combat rifles are rugged and reliable enough and some of them can be pretty accurate. But to get that you're going to have to deal with a 10+ lb rifle that is going to be well into 4 figures and would not the best option for hunting.

For very near $1000 you can get a very good bolt action hunting rifle that will be much more suitable for hunting AND buy a pretty decent AR-15 in 223 that would be a better option for personal defense. You need 2 rifles, and can do it for less money.

If I absolutely had to make 1 rifle work it would be a bolt guns in some variation of a scout rifle.

^This

[ronl]

I chose a CMMG MK3 CBR for my all around gun. It really isn't that heavy, just a little over 8lbs unloaded, but adding junk to it can drive the weight up. Mine is set up with a Vortex PST GenII 1-6x24 and a warne mount. That combo adds quite a bit of weight to it. It hangs around MOA with good bullets and is short enough to be useful in the brush. I love my M1A, and it will do less than MOA, but it has had work done on it to get it there. It is about a pound heavier decked out with optics than the CBR, and the length makes it harder to get around in the woods. Might be going to Texas to do some hog hunting next month. Guess what rifle I'm taking with me?