Why do people swear by 1911's?

[Carl the Floor Walker]

Originally Posted by Nick_C_S

I'm a revolver guy.

And no gun - NO GUN - feels better in my hand than a 1911. They are so natural and easy to shoot. They are special. I have three 1911's.

If that wasn't enough (it is), as a handloader of ammunition, the 45 ACP round is fun and easy to craft.

What a fantastic gun! I really have no desire to shoot any other semi-auto.

Thank you John Moses Browning.

I hear ya Brother!

[cw308]

I third that Carl , it truly a bad ass pistol . You can completely tare it down without any special tools , I love em from the 3" to the 5 .

[bamaranger]

The most intriguing aspect of the 1911 is that the handgun is still being made,
by MULTIPLE manufacturers. It's contemporaries have long since passed, one cannot buy a new Luger P08, a Borchardt, a Mauser C96. a Savage 1907.

But you can go get a 1911.

Some are made right down the road, in Huntsville. I keep telling bamawife that is a very good reason why I should get one, she is not inclined to agree.

[briandg]

Because it is a good gun in numerous aspects of design and construction. It's really just that simple. It's good.

[Charlie98]

Why do people swear by...

Glock?

SIG?

Smith & Wesson?

Ruger?

...the list goes on.

Why do people swear by...

.45ACP?

.45 Colt?

.44 Magnum?

.357 Magnum?

... the list goes on.


Why do people swear by...

Double-stacks?

Revolvers?

Single-stacks?

[1MoreFord]

Originally Posted by jmr40

I've sworn more at them than by them. I've had more malfunctions from 1911's than everything else combined...............

I won't argue with you about older stock 1911's and questionable magazines, however you needed to have found a better 1911 'smith. Once properly worked on they are as reliable as Anything around. Fault Colt when they don't run, not the design. My three .45's and one .38 Super run 100% as does my 2011 Super.

Sadly there aren't any 1911 savvy 'smiths left near me. The only one's that I know of now are an hour or more away.

[Armybrat]

To answer the OP’s question:
Because they are very cool guns even after 108 years.

[Bilbo463]

My stainless Commander in 45acp has never malfunctioned in 9,700 rounds.....

[458winshooter]

This is 2019 and it's model # is 1911 for the year it was accepted for military use. That's 108 years if my math is right. So the darn thing works since it still is a viable design. Think about the other semi autos that are no longer considered for production, like the P-08 or the P-38 or the namboo.
That being said I don't care for it that much and I sold the only one I ever had to a friend of mine who was a Marine who adores it. Said he spent a lot of time on guard duty with one on his hip in the late 70's and early 80's. As he put it : a flashlight, a stick and a 45. I may have kept it if I had put a larger dovetail on it cause it used to bite the crap out of my hand, but since he wanted it ......

[Knutsoch]

I bought a Sistema Colt 1927 today at an auction. I was told it shoots .45 ACP but it's marked 11.25mm. Does anyone know for sure that this gun is a 45 Auto? I did some research and the serial looks like a 1964 build in Argentina.

[44 AMP]

11.25mm is the metric designation for the .45ACP round. I think its their measurement of the bore diameter, not the groove, but I know its their name for the .45acp. The Norwegians also call it the 11.25mm.

Sistema Colts are, if I remember right, license built copies, and parts should interchange (with some fitting, probably)

why do people swear by the 1911?

Some of us remember the days before JHP ammo was common. We remember the days when the first 9mm JHPs were touted as the new best thing. After 30 some years, it appears they may have figured it out, but the .45 bias is strong.

Probably because while its effectiveness has been blown out of reality (and what isn't these days??) it is based on solid historical performance.

Like wise, the 1911(A1)'s reputation for always working. Nothing does all the time, but the 1911 worked BETTER than its competition, foreign and domestic.

Personally, I think the 1911A1 is the best blend of power, controllability, accuracy and ergonomics devised for a combat handgun. No design rivaled it, let alone exceeded it in any way for over half a century. Today we have more modern designs that perform better for some people or are more pleasing to some people, but the 1911 not only still holds up, its made today by almost everyone, so that right there should tell you something. Colt, Sig, S&W, Ruger, and many others make a gun that is a 1911 "type" either a true reproduction of the original or their "improved" versions.

I was Army trained as a Small Arms Repairman, when the 1911A1 was still our service pistol. While I think those who (jokingly) refer to the gun's design as coming down from on high are going a bit too far, there's no denying it was a work of design genius.

One of the things I always felt was pure genius was the fact that the original GI design guns can be detail stripped with one "tool", and that tool can be a rifle cartridge, a pen, a bootlace, a toothpick, a twig or almost anything with a point on it that can push in the firing pin. The rest of the pistol can be disassembled using only the fingers and the parts of the gun itself.

[Knutsoch]

They are a cool gun with a lot of history, that's why.

Hey the Sistema Colt's say 11.25mm on them. Does anyone know for sure that they shoot .45 auto ammo? I grew up being told only put exactly what is stamped on the gun in it for ammunition so I'm just looking for confirmation.

[Knutsoch]

Thank you for the info.

[P5 Guy]

Think about the other semi autos that are no longer considered for production, like the P-08 or the P-38

I haven't looked recently if DWM is still in business, but Walther certainly is still manufacturing fine pistols. I for one am very happy Walther updates their designs after a decade or two.

[kenny53]

I just looked up .45 conversion to MM it came out to 11.4, I don't know if that helps you or not. Take the barrel out of the gun and drop a round into the chamber. It should just plop in there. I think 44 AMP is probably correct. But if you really want to know send the gun to Demolition Ranch on You Tube, Mat will find out for sure. Not saying what condition your gun will be in when you get it back but it should make a great video.

[44 AMP]

44 AMP is correct on this one.

The reason a straight math metric to English conversion doesn't work out perfectly is simply because cartridge names are not precise descriptors of the size of the round. They are CLOSE, but not exact. The number used will have some kind of correlation, it MAY be the actual bore, or groove diameter, or it may not be.

Literally, only the first digit in a cartridge name is expected to be accurate. Usually the first two are, but not necessarily. Sometimes all 3 are, if 3 are used, but again, not necessarily.

For some examples,
.22 Hornet, .218 Bee, .219 Zipper, .220 Swift, .221 Fireball, .222 Remington, .223 Remington (5.56mm), .224 Weatherby, .225 Winchester, and .22-250 all shoot the same .224" diameter bullets.

7.62mm = .3" or if you prefer, .300" Not .308", and not .311-.312" which is the diameter of 7.62mm bullets.

the .32 ACP which is known in Europe as 7.65mm uses .311" bullets but the math conversion is 7.65mm = .304"

Nearly all our ".38" caliber pistol rounds are ".35s" using bullets from .355" to .358" diameter

Our .44s use bullets that are .429"

In the case of the pistol rounds, it's history. Many were originally loaded with heel type bullets (the kind still used in the .22 LR) where the full bullet diameter is the same as the outside of the case. When the change was made to inside lubricated bullets (our modern standard) the bullet diameter was reduced to fit inside the case, but the original name was kept.

Cartridges made later, that never had heel type bullets, kept to the same general standard, though there are numerous exceptions.

Literally, who ever makes a cartridge gets to name it, and what every they choose is the name. It will have some kind of relationship to the cartridge size, but other than that, the field is wide open.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by knutsoch

Hey the Sistema Colt's say 11.25mm on them. Does anyone know for sure that they shoot .45 auto ammo? I grew up being told only put exactly what is stamped on the gun in it for ammunition so I'm just looking for confirmation.

Confirmation confirmed. I own a "Sistema Colt" (more on that below), and it shoots .45 ACP.

Now ... about that "Sistema Colt" thing. There ain't no such critter.

https://forum.m1911.org/showthread.p...slide-question

Originally Posted by M1911.org

Properly, the Sistemas are not "Sistemas," either. That's part of the model name. The maker was found on the left side of the slide: D.G.F.M. - (F.M.A.P)
Direccion General de Fabricaciones Militares (Fabric Militar de Armas Portatiles). Roughly translated, this means "General Directorate for Military Fabrications (Military Factory for Portable [Small] Arms)."

The right side rollmark should be read and interpreted as a complete statement, not pulling "Colt" out of it to mean something other than intended. "Sistema" is the Spanish word for "system." The right side rollmark is "SIST. COLT CAL. 11.25mm MOD. 1927". That translates to "System of Caliber Colt .45, Model of 1927." It's the equivalent of an American-made 1911 (or any pistol) saying ".45 ACP" or ".45 Auto" on the slide.

To elaborate a bit on what 44 AMP posted about caliber designations, he is correct that nomenclature is somewhat (??) arbitrary. It may refer (closely, or not so closely) to the bore diameter, the groove diameter, or the case diameter. He gave several examples. Another is .44 Colt / .45 Colt.

Most of us know that the 1873 Colt SAA was originally chambered for .45 Colt. Before 1873, though, as soon as S&W's patent on metallic cartridges and bored-through cylinders expired, Colt wanted/needed to jump on the band wagon. Colt had a lot of open-top, percussion cap revolvers in the factory. A couple of their employees came up with a conversion to allow them to fire metallic cartridges by boring out the back of the cylinder to the same diameter as the chamber for the .44 caliber balls (which were actually .45x" in diameter because .44" was the bore diameter, not the groove diameter), and adding a bit of hardware at the back of the cylinder. (You can Google Richards-Mason Conversion if you want more info on that.)

The black powder .44 caliber revolvers fired lead balls of .45x diameter. The 1873 SAA fires lead bullets of .45x" diameter. This is why you can buy conversion kits to allow a .44 caliber cap-and-ball revolver to fire .45 Colt (or the shorter .45 Schofield) cartridge ammo. The barrels are the same, or so nearly so that it doesn't matter.

Those early Richards-Mason conversions fired a .44 Colt cartridge that had a heeled bullet. The cylinders were bored straight through, so the case and the bullet had the same diameter. Today, if you buy an Italian reproduction of a Richards-Mason conversion 1872 Colt, it will be chambered in what is today called .44 Colt, but it will fire modern ammo with a bullet that's .429" in diameter. This creates a conundrum for reloaders because, if you have an original Richards-Mason conversion, or a true copy of one, you need something like the original ammo. Some suppliers now distinguish between ".44 Colt" and ".44 Colt Original."

All of which is an extremely long-winded way or trying to explain why the Argenianian 11.25mm 1911s fire .45 Colt ammunition just fine.

[manta49]

They are available here in the UK and i owned one in the past i liked it as a historic pistol, but its only really popular in America. If i was looking something for CC it would be way down the list.

[458winshooter]

Quote: Walther certainly is still manufacturing fine pistols. I for one am very happy Walther updates their designs after a decade or two.
Your missing the point, the 1911 has been in constant production for over 100 years with very few changes. Both the P-08 and the P-38 have not come anywhere close to this. Walther may well have used some of the ideas taken from the P-38 and incorporated it into their new designs but they don't produce a true P-38 as far as I can tell. Admittedly I am not really familiar with their full product line but it can't compare with the 1911's record. It is by far the standard in which all others are measured, and the simple fact that everyone out there makes a 1911 in some form or another speaks for itself. Perhaps if Walther based their product on a 1911 it wouldn't need to change every few decades.

[bamaranger]

Yes, ..........the makers, Walther is still in business, as is Savage, as is Mauser, and Colt. But the semi auto pistols that were contemporaries with the 1911 are long out of production, only the 1911 remains.

[Ruger45LC]

People like different things, maybe they have a fondness for the 1911 in general. The trigger is usually good, moreover it's very easy to shoot a 1911 well so it doesn't take much practice to shoot well with it. Many like the grip angle of the gun and others like guns that have a physical safety they can manipulate.

I like the 1911 and have owned dozens, but to me they're just nice guns that I don't really have a good use for, just a range gun. It's a paradox, they don't compare real favorably with more modern semi autos in terms of weight and capacity and overall ease of use/maintenance, but then again, there's nothing quite like a 1911.

[44 AMP]

It's a paradox, they don't compare real favorably with more modern semi autos in terms of weight and capacity and overall ease of use/maintenance, but then again, there's nothing quite like a 1911.

I agree there are more modern designs that are more advanced in terms of capacity and lighter weight, (and size) than the original Government model.

Now, consider this, the 1911/1911A1 Government Model was an established military arm before the designers of our most modern semi auto pistols were even born.

They've been able to study the 1911 in war and peace, its flaws and its strengths for their entire lives. And look what they have managed to make, some gun that are in some ways slightly better, and some that aren't. Think about that.

I'm not an exclusive "originalist" / purist. I put rubber grips on SA revolvers. I have been known to put a telescopic sight on a lever action rifle. Because, for me, doing so makes them work better in my hands. Horrifies some people, but I don't care.

I don't do much, if anything to a Government model, other than sights better than the original GI ones. I don't find it to need anything else.
All of the "race gun" features are pretty much wasted on my, though I have tried most of them, just to be sure. I don't need extended controls, or a "whale tail" grip safety. I must be the exception, as I cannot ever recall being "bitten" by a Govt model, with stock everything, unless I had my hand in the wrong place, and that would have been MY fault, not the gun design.

When one of the more modern designs, be it SIG or GLock or S&W or something else has over a CENTURY of constant production and use, it might then be on a par with where the 1911 is TODAY, and while I personally won't be around to see it, I think that its quite likely that if/when that "modern" design reaches the century mark, it will still be facing the 1911 design going into its 3rd century....

OF course, if we can create working/workable ray guns, blasters, phasers or any of the rest of scifi arms, the point may be moot. Until then, and I think for some time after, the 1911 design will still be chosen by a lot of folks.

[reticle]

It's easy to get spolied by a 1911.

[Aguila Blanca]

The 1911 is also possibly the most versatile pistol design in the history of firearms. Think of how many calibers it has been offered in:

• .45 ACP
• 9mm Parabellum
• .380 ACP
• .38 Special
• .38 Super
• .22 LR
• .22 Magnum
• .22 TCM
• 10mm
• .357 SIG
• .460 Rowland
• .455 Webley

That's off the top of my head. I'm sure there have been others. I can't think of any other handgun that even comes close to having been made in so many calibers/chamberings.

[gc70]

Originally Posted by knutsoch

Hey the Sistema Colt's say 11.25mm on them. Does anyone know for sure that they shoot .45 auto ammo? I grew up being told only put exactly what is stamped on the gun in it for ammunition so I'm just looking for confirmation.

Yes, 11.25x23mm, 11.43x23mm and .45 ACP are the same (described here if you read Spanish).

Or ...