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November 22, 2013, 11:48 PM | #51 | |
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November 22, 2013, 11:54 PM | #52 |
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Well, I don't know that I'd go that far. I can envision a situation where there MAY be another threat, but you don't know if/when it will present itself. In that case, I would want a topped-off firearm and not be magazine out for very long.
...still, I'd favor reload with retention over two mags in my weak hand at the same time. |
November 23, 2013, 12:14 AM | #53 | |
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In such a case, "topping off" makes sense, and I have time to do so without risk, assuming I've gained some combination of distance, cover and/or concealment ... or other circumstances convince me I am safe to do so. While I have my own preferences, if the above is true, I don't think it especially matters what technique one uses, as long as it isn't fumbling or unusually slow. Last edited by zombietactics; November 23, 2013 at 12:27 AM. |
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November 23, 2013, 09:30 AM | #54 | ||||||||||||
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I’ve witnessed full/partially full magazines burst apart when dropped onto a hard surface. That’s my experience. So it goes to reason that if I want to top off my gun and retain the partially full magazine that I just removed from it then I’m not going to use a technique in which I drop it onto the floor/concrete/asphalt. I’m going to simply perform a Tactical Reload. Quote:
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Why do I tap/roll & rack first? Because it will quickly clear the majority of stoppages I may encounter. If the magazine release got bumped when I was sitting in a car, in a restaurant, at the movie theater, or while I was rolling around on the ground in a scuffle, then tap/roll & rack will reseat the magazine, load a cartridge in the chamber and the pistol is ready to fire. If the cartridge in the chamber is defective and fails to fire then tap/roll & rack will extract and eject that cartridge and load a fresh one and the pistol is ready to fire. If I experience a stovepipe then tap/roll & rack will, more times than not, clear the spent case from the action and the pistol is ready to fire. (Sometimes tap/roll & rack will induce a doublefeed.) If my grip on the pistol is compromised (maybe my hands are wet/bloody and the pistol shifts in my grip) and I inadvertently engage the slide lock then tap/roll & rack will get the gun running. If I experience a feeding failure then tap/roll & rack will, more times than not, clear the failure and the pistol is ready to fire. If I’ve emptied the magazine and the slide failed to lock open on the last shot then tap/roll & rack will lead me to a Combat Reload more quickly than diagnosing the stoppage. If there’s low light/no light then tap/roll & rack will clear these stoppages without me having to look at or feel the gun to diagnose why it stopped. Tap/roll & rack is performed in the blink of an eye. If I’ve emptied the magazine or experienced a doublefeed then tap/roll & rack doesn’t allow me to become preoccupied with my gun. I know my next immediate action is going to take more time and effort. If tap/roll & rack fails then it triggers me to immediately move off the X (or take a different defensive measure) when the situation requires. Tap/roll & rack is one immediate action that quickly clears many problems. When the unexpected happens it’s much faster than diagnosing the problem or performing a Combat Reload. Quote:
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But did you notice that Jeff operates the charging handle after the reload just as he would operate the slide on a pistol? Quote:
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Tap/rack gets you off the X more quickly than diagnosing your pistol. Tap/rack can also get you back into the fight more quickly than diagnosing your pistol. Quote:
“Fast is slow. Slow is smooth, smooth is quick.” -- Navy SEAL adage. Of course I’d like to do things as fast as possible. But I prefer to use techniques that don’t fall apart under stress when the unexpected happens in a variety of conditions. |
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November 23, 2013, 09:57 AM | #55 | ||
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There may be uncertainty. That means it’s a judgment call depending on the circumstances. |
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November 23, 2013, 09:58 AM | #56 | |
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November 23, 2013, 01:17 PM | #57 | |
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The tac-load is best if you have a lower capacity gun, such as a 1911 .45 or single stack 9mm. Those with 15 to 20 shot weapons don't need to worry so much. Jeff Cooper's tac-load was there because he was a 1911 man, and most of the time he carried just a single spare mag. Thus ammo conservation played on his mind and the 'doctrine' of the tac-load. And as military people have found ever since firearms have been used, topping off ones weapon before advancing and not being ABSOLUTELY SURE there is no more threats, is a wise idea. Add that and the lower capacity handguns and one sees why they want to keep the remaining rounds. And that is why the tac-load is a valid concept. If you are behind cover after a confrontation and you decide to break cover, then it is wise to top off your weapon regardless if you know there is a threat or not. And if your weapon has a limited capacity, keep the partially spent magazine just in case. Deaf
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November 23, 2013, 01:18 PM | #58 | ||||||||||
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Why the long litany regarding malfunction clearances? I've already stated that I am a adherent to the concept of non-diagnostic malfunction clearances. We aren't even talking about a malfunction, but rather the ordinary behavior of a a pistol when it's out of ammo. Noting all the malfunctions which are addressed by this method, says nothing about why you are performing extra, unnecessary steps to reload a gun which is operating correctly. Quote:
If you are the special outlying case where this doesn't work ... fine. Credit goes to you for adapting around your particular issues. I'd never criticize anyone for recognizing that something just doesn't work for them, and opting to do something else.That's not a rationale for trying to convince people that they can't do something which they clearly and demonstrably can do ... reliably. Quote:
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Since mentioned "getting off the X more quickly" (boy are you full of out-of-context jargon), I'd submit that dropping a mag, putting a fresh on in and racking a round into the chamber is quicker than doing all of that plus initially tapping racking. This assumes that you intuitively recognize slide-lock. I can. Thousands of people can, and demonstrate it regularly. If you can't, then I once again applaud you for working around that problem. Quote:
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Last edited by zombietactics; November 24, 2013 at 12:45 AM. |
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November 23, 2013, 02:27 PM | #59 |
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Derbel McDillet:
I think it's possible to clear up some things pretty easily if you'd work with me on a brief "thought experiment". If nothing else, it would clear up my understanding of your reasoning, and/or perhaps your understanding of mine. I've read Jeff Gonzalez' book, but I don't want to put words in your mouth. Since you've trained with him and I have not, can you explain to me how Jeff (and presumably you) clear a Type3 malfunction? I'm assuming it starts with a tap-rack, but what do you do then? Last edited by zombietactics; November 23, 2013 at 07:14 PM. |
November 23, 2013, 09:59 PM | #60 | ||
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In reality, it might be a reasonable option AFTER a deadly threat scenario or perhaps between the clear end of one and the beginning of another, but it is never a reasonable option DURING a civilian deadly threat scenario. Quote:
IMO, the only reason tac-reloads have lasted as long as they have within the civilian community is because they are a carryover from military (where they make sense) and, to a lesser extent, from the LEO community (where they might make sense in some circumstances). That's probably why we see folks like Shawn, and others with an LE background, acting as strong advocates for the procedure.
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November 24, 2013, 10:51 PM | #61 | |
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November 24, 2013, 11:15 PM | #62 |
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Scenario:
You are in a stop-n-rob at 2 AM. 2 punks (you think there are just 2 punks) enter the store with mask and guns. One of 'em starts to shove his gun under your nose. Fearing for your life you slap his gun aside as you draw and shoot. Moving toward cover you engage the second one. Both of them are down and hors de combat. After about a minute, with nothing else moving, you decide to break cover and check the scene. Since you armed with a Kahr PM40 with 6 shot mag, you do a tac-load before breaking cover. You perform it with your eyes up and scanning the surrounding (the tac-load is done by feel and memory.) Now you have a fully loaded Kahr and 2 or 3 shots in the partially spent magazine as you leave cover. And that is what the tac-load is for. Deaf
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November 24, 2013, 11:34 PM | #63 |
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If you're sure there's no one else (and I don't know how you could possible be sure) then do whatever you want. Go to the bathroom to change your shorts, reload while standing on your head, take a drink directly from the slurpee machine.
If you're not sure that the situation is over, stay behind cover, don't play around with your gun unless it's empty and needs to be reloaded and either call the police or wait for the clerk to call the police. Unlike the typical CHL/CCW holder, the police are trained to and get paid to check the scene after a shooting to see if there is another armed punk hiding behind the potato chip display. The officer responding will have a bullet proof vest and an armed partner to provide cover. You will have neither. In other words, the scenario has the defender doing LE work--clearing the scene in this case. That (or a military-type mission) will be a common theme in any scenario where a tac-reload even makes a little bit of sense.
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November 24, 2013, 11:36 PM | #64 |
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All of which goes to show that one can always come up with a scenario to explain and justify any response to anything.
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November 25, 2013, 11:38 AM | #65 |
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And that seems just the right note on which to end the discussion.
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