Need info on Ar 15 Ruger or Smith m&p2

Wendyj · January 12, 2018, 06:09 PM

My Lgs has the Ruger AR and the smith for $470.00. I had the Smith last year but traded out of it due to money needs. Got a little extra and want to pick one of the 2 up tomorrow. I used a Vortex strike eagle 1x6 on the Smith and factory ammo 1.5 to 2 inches scoped. I handloaded some Hornady 55 gr soft points and some 75 grain amax up with benchmark powder and 55s stayed moa while the 75 stayed around 1.5. Mine had 1-9 twist while the Ruger is a 1-8. Won’t be hunting anything with it but maybe some coyotes and going to mount a Burris Fullfieldii on it. Hate post is so long but really want to get the right one. I have 4-5 30 round mags and a 10 round. Would like to bang steel at longer ranges. Twist and trigger my biggest concerns. Any input would be appreciated.

weblance · January 12, 2018, 07:08 PM

Either is fine. Both will have a crappy Mil-spec trigger.

Ruger has been installing the Ruger Elite 452 trigger in the Ruger MPR. Its a MUCH better trigger than the Mil-Spec trigger the S&W or standard AR556 comes with. See if they have the Ruger MPR

marine6680 · January 12, 2018, 07:21 PM

The MPR costs more though...

I would get the Smith over the Ruger, both are good rifles, but the Smith has a few bullet points that the Ruger doesn't. If the price is similar, that's the way I would go.

DubC-Hicks · January 12, 2018, 08:17 PM

The melonited barrel in the Smith gets my vote.

hdwhit · January 12, 2018, 08:31 PM

For most practical purposes, I think most people regard them as interchangeable.

Some people don't like that the Ruger has some proprietary parts, but like the 1:8 twist. Others refer the Smith because it uses all standard parts but has a 1:9 twist which won't stabilize the heaviest (i.e 77 and 80 grain) bullets.

See: http://info.stagarms.com/blog/bid/37...unition-Choice

In my case, the first time I went looking for an AR, the choice was between Ruger and Smith. The gun store had the Smith in stock, not the Ruger, so I got the Smith. When I went looking for a second AR for my younger son, Gander Mountain had the Smith on sale for $100 less than the Ruger, so I bought a Smith again. If the prices or availability had been reversed, I'd have added some AR556s to my collection of Mini-14s.

Wendyj · January 12, 2018, 09:11 PM

Is weight factor any different? I keep reading something about I shrouded firing pin in Ruger. Some say a problem. Some not. I did read that sight only has one aperture on the Ruger. I would use it scoped with a quick detach base and open sights also.

Duke of Lawn Chair · January 12, 2018, 10:10 PM

If the Ruger uses non milspec parts I would opt for the Smith. Twist rate isn't going to be a factor unless you're shooting the National Matches. The reason it's still seems like an issue is in the old days the 1/12 was standard for light ammo. 1/9 is a good over all rate.

marine6680 · January 13, 2018, 12:22 AM

1/9 twist will work very well for most people's needs... Most people are not shooting but 55gr or 62gr... And most 1/9 16in barrels will stabilize the 69gr stuff too.

turtlehead · January 13, 2018, 12:25 AM

My choice would be the Smith. Hard to go wrong at that price for either. That's fantastic.

Mobuck · January 13, 2018, 08:08 AM

"Would like to bang steel at longer ranges."

And you're looking at 16" carbines?????????

Wendyj · January 13, 2018, 12:22 PM

Just 2-300 yards. Somewhere closer to home. All longer ranges are hour or two drive.

Big Shrek · January 13, 2018, 05:56 PM

I snagged a S&W M&P Sport II for $379, made my Christmas

Helps to be right there when a deal pops up...also helps to be
known as a good buyer by Management

When I hear Proprietary, I think of the old Hewlett Packard computers...
which had to have their OWN stuff, nothing else fit...that's ok if you
don't want to tinker with it, but if you wanna upgrade, yer screwed.
So even with a lower price, I'd pass on a Ruger AR556.

weblance · January 13, 2018, 08:18 PM

The Ruger is an AR-15. Its not a rifle that has mysterious parts inside. Its an AR-15. Everybody makes a big deal that its not Mil-Spec. The areas where its not Mil-Spec are so minor, its laughable.

Lets list them.

!. It doesn't have a Mil-Spec Delta ring. It uses one that unscrews instead of pulls back against spring pressure. No bid deal, but yes... Not Mil-Spec.

2. It uses an unshrouded firing pin. This is the area of the bolt carrier group where the hammer gets recocked under recoil. Why did Ruger choose to do this? No one really knows, and it could become an issue after many thousands of rounds. If it bothers you, swap Bolt Carriers, or when it gets worn, contact Ruger, and they will replace it free of charge.

That's it. Those are the two areas where its not Mil-Spec.

Comparing the Smith to the Ruger, the Smith uses a Magpul rear sight which has two apertures, the Ruger uses a similar rear sight that has one aperture. The advantage goes to Smith on that one. The other advantage the Smith has, is a nitride treated barrel. The Ruger uses an untreated barrel. The untreated Ruger barrel could have an advantage in accuracy, the Smith barrel will have an advantage in a longer service life.

The Ruger has a nicer grip, and an oversize trigger guard. The Smith uses a standard grip, and trigger guard. The advantage goes to Ruger there. The Ruger has a billet front sight/gas block, with a quick detach swivel mount. The Smith uses a standard gas block/front sight. Advantage to Ruger.

The Ruger will accept any aftermarket part made for an AR-15. IT IS NOT the same as the comparison to an old HP computer.

Ruger has excellent customer service, should you ever need it. Smith has customer service, but its not as efficient as Ruger

SDF880 · January 13, 2018, 09:19 PM

I picked the SW2 up Friday and tore it down, clean and inspect and for the money 490 bucks I think that is a heck of a rifle!

turtlehead · January 13, 2018, 11:51 PM

Thanks for that explanation, weblance.

Here's a discussion about that weird bolt carrier design. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...ed-bcg.808078/

marine6680 · January 14, 2018, 02:54 AM

Overall... I think the Smith has more boxes checked than the Ruger... Not that the Ruger is bad.

The Smith uses a nitride treated barrel... Nitriding does not affect the bore, so it does not affect accuracy. So, everything being equal, it gives up no accuracy, but gains longevity.

The shrouded firing pin help prevent the firing pin from breaking. That was the main problem of not having the firing pin shrouded. The firing pin takes a lot of force when the action cycles when it is not shrouded, this leads to breakage during use.

The proprietary parts on the Ruger are not a concern of mine, they are few in number, minor overall, and useful. They could be replaced if desired.

The smith does have an enlarged trigger guard... its built in, so if you wanted a custom one, then thats a no go. It looks big enough to be useful when wearing gloves.

Overall... they both significantly differ from milspec... and by that... I mean they are below the spec, not better than.

They are entry level rifles. They are not meant to endure harsh training let alone a battlefield...

That isn't to say that they are bad... They could easily be used in a home defense role, and work well at that role. Reliability is the key there.

I would step up to an basic configuration mid length AR from Aero Precision... As those are built well... Close to mil spec. The only difference is really the BCG and barrel are nitride treated. Which isn't really a problem, or even a step down from mil spec.

Might cost about $100 more though... But I think it is likely the best AR in the $600 and under price range right now. Definitely a step up from both the Ruger and Smith...

Unfortunately, if you are wanting to only get one local, most do not have them. You would need to order one online.

LilHog · January 14, 2018, 04:57 AM

S&W M&P sport II gets my vote. Go to the store and hold and fondle both and see which one you like best. I did just that and walked out with the sport II.

Mobuck · January 14, 2018, 08:52 AM

If I were picking a "starter AR", I'd choose a mid-length gassed 16" (w/o the dumb arse M-4 cut) built with entirely "common to the platform" parts. In the long run, this is a better launch pad for whatever use(s) one might find.
In my experience, 200-300 yards isn't "long range" for a decent 16" AR. Over 300 yards is questionable for uses other than informal target shooting-too much velocity loss from the short barrel.

Wendyj · January 14, 2018, 12:04 PM

Guess there was so much starter information I gave up on entry level and am going to go with the FNH Patrol. carbine with 1-7 twist. Double the price but shouldn't have to upgrade anything later. Not looking for home defense as shotgun and handguns will suffice. Hoping 1100 with 6 mags is decent price. It's used but has a Timney trigger in it and came with decent case.

Big Shrek · January 15, 2018, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wendyj

Guess there was so much starter information I gave up on entry level and am going to go with the FNH Patrol. carbine with 1-7 twist. Double the price but shouldn't have to upgrade anything later. Not looking for home defense as shotgun and handguns will suffice. Hoping 1100 with 6 mags is decent price. It's used but has a Timney trigger in it and came with decent case.

Sounds like a Party!
Look forward to seeing you post some pics of it!

PeteH · January 15, 2018, 09:35 PM

Got the M&P pre Xmas and put 200 rounds or so through it.
A friend gave me a cheap scope that I mounted and tried to sight in with terrible results.
Discovered that the barrel as flopping around, loose barrel nut. I was not amused as this was a new gun but it was a great excuse to get a block and multitool. All good now, nice rifle for the money.

Joe-ker · January 16, 2018, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Ruger has excellent customer service, should you ever need it. Smith has customer service, but its not as efficient as Ruger

Your last paragraph is what made my decision. I was standing in the store having to choose between either model for almost the same price-- I think the ruger was like 10-15$ more. I chose the ruger. You can't go wrong with either.

Thanks for the excellent explanation weblance.

January 12, 2018, 06:09 PM	#1
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	Need info on Ar 15 Ruger or Smith m&p2 My Lgs has the Ruger AR and the smith for $470.00. I had the Smith last year but traded out of it due to money needs. Got a little extra and want to pick one of the 2 up tomorrow. I used a Vortex strike eagle 1x6 on the Smith and factory ammo 1.5 to 2 inches scoped. I handloaded some Hornady 55 gr soft points and some 75 grain amax up with benchmark powder and 55s stayed moa while the 75 stayed around 1.5. Mine had 1-9 twist while the Ruger is a 1-8. Won’t be hunting anything with it but maybe some coyotes and going to mount a Burris Fullfieldii on it. Hate post is so long but really want to get the right one. I have 4-5 30 round mags and a 10 round. Would like to bang steel at longer ranges. Twist and trigger my biggest concerns. Any input would be appreciated. __________________ God is NOT dead!!!! Last edited by Wendyj; January 12, 2018 at 09:07 PM.

January 12, 2018, 08:17 PM	#4
DubC-Hicks Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2009 Location: Backwoods, Northern MI Posts: 1,031	The melonited barrel in the Smith gets my vote. __________________ ”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.” ~Unknown

January 12, 2018, 09:11 PM	#6
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	Is weight factor any different? I keep reading something about I shrouded firing pin in Ruger. Some say a problem. Some not. I did read that sight only has one aperture on the Ruger. I would use it scoped with a quick detach base and open sights also. __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

January 13, 2018, 12:22 PM	#11
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	Just 2-300 yards. Somewhere closer to home. All longer ranges are hour or two drive. __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

January 13, 2018, 05:56 PM	#12
Big Shrek Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: NorthWest Florida Posts: 1,358	I snagged a S&W M&P Sport II for $379, made my Christmas Helps to be right there when a deal pops up...also helps to be known as a good buyer by Management When I hear Proprietary, I think of the old Hewlett Packard computers... which had to have their OWN stuff, nothing else fit...that's ok if you don't want to tinker with it, but if you wanna upgrade, yer screwed. So even with a lower price, I'd pass on a Ruger AR556. __________________ Marlin Specialist Calico Specialist A gun should be a tool in the hands of a deadly weapon, not a deadly weapon in the hands of a tool.

January 12, 2018, 07:08 PM	#2
weblance Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2012 Posts: 1,229	Either is fine. Both will have a crappy Mil-spec trigger. Ruger has been installing the Ruger Elite 452 trigger in the Ruger MPR. Its a MUCH better trigger than the Mil-Spec trigger the S&W or standard AR556 comes with. See if they have the Ruger MPR

January 12, 2018, 07:21 PM	#3
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	The MPR costs more though... I would get the Smith over the Ruger, both are good rifles, but the Smith has a few bullet points that the Ruger doesn't. If the price is similar, that's the way I would go.

January 12, 2018, 08:31 PM	#5
hdwhit Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2017 Posts: 1,011	For most practical purposes, I think most people regard them as interchangeable. Some people don't like that the Ruger has some proprietary parts, but like the 1:8 twist. Others refer the Smith because it uses all standard parts but has a 1:9 twist which won't stabilize the heaviest (i.e 77 and 80 grain) bullets. See: http://info.stagarms.com/blog/bid/37...unition-Choice In my case, the first time I went looking for an AR, the choice was between Ruger and Smith. The gun store had the Smith in stock, not the Ruger, so I got the Smith. When I went looking for a second AR for my younger son, Gander Mountain had the Smith on sale for $100 less than the Ruger, so I bought a Smith again. If the prices or availability had been reversed, I'd have added some AR556s to my collection of Mini-14s.

January 12, 2018, 10:10 PM	#7
Duke of Lawn Chair Member Join Date: January 10, 2018 Posts: 25	If the Ruger uses non milspec parts I would opt for the Smith. Twist rate isn't going to be a factor unless you're shooting the National Matches. The reason it's still seems like an issue is in the old days the 1/12 was standard for light ammo. 1/9 is a good over all rate.

January 13, 2018, 12:22 AM	#8
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	1/9 twist will work very well for most people's needs... Most people are not shooting but 55gr or 62gr... And most 1/9 16in barrels will stabilize the 69gr stuff too.

January 13, 2018, 12:25 AM	#9
turtlehead Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2015 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,203	My choice would be the Smith. Hard to go wrong at that price for either. That's fantastic.

January 13, 2018, 08:08 AM	#10
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	"Would like to bang steel at longer ranges." And you're looking at 16" carbines?????????

January 13, 2018, 08:18 PM	#13
weblance Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2012 Posts: 1,229	The Ruger is an AR-15. Its not a rifle that has mysterious parts inside. Its an AR-15. Everybody makes a big deal that its not Mil-Spec. The areas where its not Mil-Spec are so minor, its laughable. Lets list them. !. It doesn't have a Mil-Spec Delta ring. It uses one that unscrews instead of pulls back against spring pressure. No bid deal, but yes... Not Mil-Spec. 2. It uses an unshrouded firing pin. This is the area of the bolt carrier group where the hammer gets recocked under recoil. Why did Ruger choose to do this? No one really knows, and it could become an issue after many thousands of rounds. If it bothers you, swap Bolt Carriers, or when it gets worn, contact Ruger, and they will replace it free of charge. That's it. Those are the two areas where its not Mil-Spec. Comparing the Smith to the Ruger, the Smith uses a Magpul rear sight which has two apertures, the Ruger uses a similar rear sight that has one aperture. The advantage goes to Smith on that one. The other advantage the Smith has, is a nitride treated barrel. The Ruger uses an untreated barrel. The untreated Ruger barrel could have an advantage in accuracy, the Smith barrel will have an advantage in a longer service life. The Ruger has a nicer grip, and an oversize trigger guard. The Smith uses a standard grip, and trigger guard. The advantage goes to Ruger there. The Ruger has a billet front sight/gas block, with a quick detach swivel mount. The Smith uses a standard gas block/front sight. Advantage to Ruger. The Ruger will accept any aftermarket part made for an AR-15. IT IS NOT the same as the comparison to an old HP computer. Ruger has excellent customer service, should you ever need it. Smith has customer service, but its not as efficient as Ruger Last edited by weblance; January 13, 2018 at 08:30 PM.

January 13, 2018, 09:19 PM	#14
SDF880 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2009 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 390	I picked the SW2 up Friday and tore it down, clean and inspect and for the money 490 bucks I think that is a heck of a rifle!

January 13, 2018, 11:51 PM	#15
turtlehead Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2015 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,203	Thanks for that explanation, weblance. Here's a discussion about that weird bolt carrier design. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...ed-bcg.808078/

January 14, 2018, 02:54 AM	#16
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	Overall... I think the Smith has more boxes checked than the Ruger... Not that the Ruger is bad. The Smith uses a nitride treated barrel... Nitriding does not affect the bore, so it does not affect accuracy. So, everything being equal, it gives up no accuracy, but gains longevity. The shrouded firing pin help prevent the firing pin from breaking. That was the main problem of not having the firing pin shrouded. The firing pin takes a lot of force when the action cycles when it is not shrouded, this leads to breakage during use. The proprietary parts on the Ruger are not a concern of mine, they are few in number, minor overall, and useful. They could be replaced if desired. The smith does have an enlarged trigger guard... its built in, so if you wanted a custom one, then thats a no go. It looks big enough to be useful when wearing gloves. Overall... they both significantly differ from milspec... and by that... I mean they are below the spec, not better than. They are entry level rifles. They are not meant to endure harsh training let alone a battlefield... That isn't to say that they are bad... They could easily be used in a home defense role, and work well at that role. Reliability is the key there. I would step up to an basic configuration mid length AR from Aero Precision... As those are built well... Close to mil spec. The only difference is really the BCG and barrel are nitride treated. Which isn't really a problem, or even a step down from mil spec. Might cost about $100 more though... But I think it is likely the best AR in the $600 and under price range right now. Definitely a step up from both the Ruger and Smith... Unfortunately, if you are wanting to only get one local, most do not have them. You would need to order one online.

January 14, 2018, 04:57 AM	#17
LilHog Member Join Date: February 15, 2010 Posts: 92	S&W M&P sport II gets my vote. Go to the store and hold and fondle both and see which one you like best. I did just that and walked out with the sport II.

January 14, 2018, 08:52 AM	#18
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	If I were picking a "starter AR", I'd choose a mid-length gassed 16" (w/o the dumb arse M-4 cut) built with entirely "common to the platform" parts. In the long run, this is a better launch pad for whatever use(s) one might find. In my experience, 200-300 yards isn't "long range" for a decent 16" AR. Over 300 yards is questionable for uses other than informal target shooting-too much velocity loss from the short barrel.

January 14, 2018, 12:04 PM	#19
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	Guess there was so much starter information I gave up on entry level and am going to go with the FNH Patrol. carbine with 1-7 twist. Double the price but shouldn't have to upgrade anything later. Not looking for home defense as shotgun and handguns will suffice. Hoping 1100 with 6 mags is decent price. It's used but has a Timney trigger in it and came with decent case. __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

January 15, 2018, 09:35 PM	#21
PeteH Member Join Date: December 8, 2017 Posts: 24	Got the M&P pre Xmas and put 200 rounds or so through it. A friend gave me a cheap scope that I mounted and tried to sight in with terrible results. Discovered that the barrel as flopping around, loose barrel nut. I was not amused as this was a new gun but it was a great excuse to get a block and multitool. All good now, nice rifle for the money.