Would you buy an LCP II in .32 ACP? - Page 2

Onward Allusion · June 13, 2018, 10:56 PM

I would get a LCP in 32 ACP. The LCP 380 is already bigger than the P3AT. A LCP 32 ACP would likely hold 8 rounds in the mag plus one in the pipe. I'd take 8+1 32 ACP over 6+1 380 in an identically sized pistol any day of the week.

TruthTellers · June 14, 2018, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doyle

No. I think the LCP II is downright ugly and non-ergonomic. I've got a Gen 2 LCP that I carry frequently and actually like. I think Ruger didn't do us any favors when they came out with the LCP II. Secondly, the .32 has no place in my "arsenal". If I wanted something that weak, I'd shoot a .22LR for a fraction of the price.

It's this line of thinking that makes me want to bang my head against a wall. I understand it because I did the same thing recently as I bought a Taurus tip up .22 to practice point shooting for cheap. I'd never carry the gun though because I don't want to rely on .22 rimfire because several times out of 100 shots, I'll get some failure that's because of rimfire ammo.

"That weak" again, it's an instinctive argument along the lines every senior citizen who swears that "If you're not gonna carry a .45, it may as well be a .22 then."

The .32 is a lot better, it penetrates better than .22 does, and it's not gonna cost $1/round like everyone thinks .32 costs. You're looking at .30/rd for FMJ, which is all that should be used in .32 ACP.

Jazzgun · June 14, 2018, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs

There is little real-life difference between .32 and .380 - or 9mm, for that matter.
No one wants to get shot with any of them.
No handgun is capable of a 100% sure stop, unless the central nervous system is hit. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. And a CNS hit from a .32 is as effective as a .45.

Isn't it true that more people have died from .22 caliber than any other? Why do you think that is?

Shot at closer range? More people carry .22s? More people who are likely to shoot someone are carrying a .22 SNS? What accounts for those statistics?

Personally I don't want to get shot with a BB even. Even though I was as a kid. And it hurt too...but only when my mom had to dig it out with a knitting needle.

TruthTellers · June 14, 2018, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzgun

Isn't it true that more people have died from .22 caliber than any other? Why do you think that is?

Shot at closer range? More people carry .22s? More people who are likely to shoot someone are carrying a .22 SNS? What accounts for those statistics?

Personally I don't want to get shot with a BB even. Even though I was as a kid. And it hurt too...but only when my mom had to dig it out with a knitting needle.

This is a red herring. More people have been killed by .22 LR because more people have been shot with .22 LR because .22 is the most popular caliber for a gun. So, let's say that since 1900 1 million people have been shot with a .22 and let's say that 10,000 of them died as a result.

That's a failure to kill rate of 99%, hardly a statistic that would make me want to carry it over a .357 Magnum.

I don't want to be shot with a pellet gun or a BB gun either. Up that to .32 ACP and I'd rather be Harvey Feirstein's indentured massage therapist.

Hal · June 14, 2018, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Isn't it true that more people have died from .22 caliber than any other? Why do you think that is?

So I've heard,,,but,,,like most other claims, there never appears to be anything to back that up.
If anyone does have any verifiable data, I'd like to see them share it.

TruthTellers · June 14, 2018, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hal

So I've heard,,,but,,,like most other claims, there never appears to be anything to back that up.
If anyone does have any verifiable data, I'd like to see them share it.

Ask and you shall receive:

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alte...stopping-power

TruthTellers · June 14, 2018, 02:36 AM

As can be seen in that data, the .32 ACP is virtually tied with .44 Magnum in being used the least. Why? Because it's not as popular. Why? Because people believe, wrongly, that it's no better than .22 is, but costs an arm and a leg in comparison.

The data shows that while .32 is the lowest in the fatal hits category, it matches the average for handguns of all calibers in incapacitating shot percentage and it has the highest rating for single shot stops that incapacitate a target.

What this shows is that .32 may not be an overly fatal cartridge, but it is effective in stopping an aggressor and that's the whole point of armed self defense: it's not about killing, it's about stopping.

Hal · June 14, 2018, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Ask and you shall receive:

That doesn't support the claim at all about the .22. Did you read and examine the figures?
Far and away the 9mm was both used more and had a greater percentage of lethal hits.

The author even admits this:
"Getting accurate data on nearly 1800 shootings was hard work."
(& he's even suspicious of the results....)

That translates into - his entire data group consisted of 1800 incidents.
OTOH - according to the CDC - there were 38,658 deaths by gunshot, in 2016.
That's total deaths & not total times a gun was used.

As I said before - the claim that a .22 is the most often used just simply doesn't pan out.

I'd really like to see some figures that back that statement up.

It (the data in the link) sure does a long ways towards proving what Bill D mentioned earlier though about the.32, .380 & 9mm....plus, you could even toss in the .38 spl, .357 mag & .45 acp for that matter.

Carl the Floor Walker · June 14, 2018, 04:28 AM

As a Pocket gun enthusiast, I shoot them every time I go to the range and I am a range rat that has yearly memberships at three ranges and belong to a club. Shoot a couple of times a week. A lot of talk about which caliber is better. But not much on actually training with the pocket gun.
And Make no mistake, a pocket gun is a defensive weapon no matter what caliber. The biggest mistake people make is the fact that they cannot shoot them worth a hoot. Why? Because they do not train with them. They require frequent, diligent practice and training. Hickcock45 once said. 'They should be for the Advanced shooter".
Over the years, I have seen countless people go to the range and mostly with the Ruger LCP, and to the typical GET THE PROPER FORM AND STANCE, TAKE THEIR TIME, FOCUS ON THE BULLS EYE, AND SLOWLY SQUEEZE THE TRIGGER. One reason why they desire a short light Crisp Striker fired trigger. THEY TREAT THESE GUNS LIKE TARGET GUNS!

They are not, they are for fast action shooting at 3 to 8 yards. And a whole lot of training must go into shooting them. The LCP is one of the worst I have shot. High recoil, a insane muzzle flip or snap. And for that reason a 32.cal is more suited for the LCP. And using the Gen 2 (not LCP ll) with a more deliberate and longer trigger works just great if not better for fast action shooting.
High recoil and a snappy muzzle are not conducive for desirable consistent and frequent training. A 32.cal would be a better choice for frequent training. And accuracy will always trump caliber. And the LCP is not designed for high volume training that you need to do. They will break down like a cheap lawn chair with the constant explosion of the 380 round. They just are not meant for it. A 32.cal would make the gun last much longer, be more mild and hence offer the incentive to train more frequently and of course be more accurate, and much more pleasant to shoot.

Forget Bulls Eye training. Train to draw, and shoot the gun in under 3 seconds and to center mass. If you want a 380 get one built to last a lot of rounds down range. No aluminum guns for the 380.

I train with steel targets, but when I go to the indoor ranges, I will place the gun on the table and as quickly as possible draw and shoot double taps at two or three reactive target set on one larger targets. Go from one target to the next as quick as possible. Mix It up!
Personally I shoot the Beretta Pico. Extremely Mild to shoot, no where near the high muzzle flip and the gun is not only totally reliable, but will hand any hot load you send through it and will shoot a ton of ammo down range with the quality build.

Just one example of going to a range and quickly picking up the Pico and going from one target to the next as rapidly as possible with goal to be under 3 sec. to center mass. Double tap to top then bottom or mix it up.
Just one training example and of course there are others and use steel targets when possible for more advanced training.

On this particular day, a range buddy asked my to try out the ARX ammo. I loaded up a man and fairly quickly shoot a magazine. Taking a little more time than fast action shooting. About 1 sec between shots.

railroader · June 14, 2018, 08:00 AM

I'll pass on a LCP in 32acp. I have a LCP Custom. It runs great and it has decent sights that I can actually use. I can find reasonably priced practice ammo and better choices of self defense ammo for it than 32acp. I can pocket carry it easily so I'm good.

TruthTellers · June 14, 2018, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hal

That doesn't support the claim at all about the .22. Did you read and examine the figures?
Far and away the 9mm was both used more and had a greater percentage of lethal hits.

The author even admits this:
"Getting accurate data on nearly 1800 shootings was hard work."
(& he's even suspicious of the results....)

That translates into - his entire data group consisted of 1800 incidents.
OTOH - according to the CDC - there were 38,658 deaths by gunshot, in 2016.
That's total deaths & not total times a gun was used.

As I said before - the claim that a .22 is the most often used just simply doesn't pan out.

I'd really like to see some figures that back that statement up.

It (the data in the link) sure does a long ways towards proving what Bill D mentioned earlier though about the.32, .380 & 9mm....plus, you could even toss in the .38 spl, .357 mag & .45 acp for that matter.

My point of that data wasn't proving .22 was used the most or killed the most, it was that it's not powerful and .32 is better.

If we're factoring in use of .22 rifles, I would believe that .22 has killed more than any other cartridge. I don't care about that stat because it's not what's important, incapacitating shots are.

aarondhgraham · June 14, 2018, 11:28 AM

Quote:

I would get a LCP in 32 ACP. The LCP 380 is already bigger than the P3AT. A LCP 32 ACP would likely hold 8 rounds in the mag plus one in the pipe. I'd take 8+1 32 ACP over 6+1 380 in an identically sized pistol any day of the week.

This would be the only reason I would downgrade the caliber,,,
Two extra rounds could potentially do a lot of good.

Aarond

.

Bill DeShivs · June 14, 2018, 01:00 PM

You guys forget that a .22lr from a RIFLE is a very deadly combination.
There are LOTS of .22 rifles out there-probably more than any other gun, and rifles are easier to shoot accurately.
Those 3 factors probably account for a lot.

aarondhgraham · June 14, 2018, 01:21 PM

Quote:

There are LOTS of .22 rifles out there-probably more than any other gun, and rifles are easier to shoot accurately.

But,,,

Considerably more difficult to conceal.

Aarond

.

MTT TL · June 14, 2018, 01:48 PM

I can get a .22 rifle in my pants but it is tough to walk.

Bill DeShivs · June 14, 2018, 02:37 PM

You don't have to conceal a rifle to shoot someone.
I was referring to the ".22 kills more people..."

rpseraph · June 14, 2018, 03:21 PM

I have shot the LCP and LCP II... I own an LCP II and carry it often, chambered and ready to go.

IMO, the loooooong trigger of the LCP is just awful. The trigger on the HAMMER FIRED LCP II is a lot better.

As far as the people talking about how one or the other isn't comfortable to shoot a lot... is that not the point? I shoot my LCP II enough to be proficient and stay proficient. It is NOT a pleasure to shoot, but I shoot it well and I trust it. When I go to the range I'll spend all day shooting a full size gun, because that IS a pleasure to shoot.

To the OP. No, I wouldn't want one in 32. 380 is much more effective, tiny, compact, and as small as I'd want to trust for self defense. I can't see a reason why to have it in 32.

JERRYS. · June 14, 2018, 03:49 PM

an additional round without adding size.
softer shooting for those that prefer it.
id go with the .32 in this size gun because the .380 loses much of its advantage when its from such a small gun.

Carmady · June 14, 2018, 04:08 PM

Quote:

the .380 loses much of its advantage when its from such a small gun

In a Paul Harrell video he compares shooting HP's from a S&W BG 2.75" barrel and a Beretta 1934 with a 3.5" barrel. From the Beretta the HP expansion looked picture perfect and there was next to no over-penetration, but the lack of velocity from the shorter barrel delivered zero HP expansion and lots of over-penetration.

The 380 part starts at 9:25.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90PQWzx0_MA

Bill DeShivs · June 14, 2018, 05:48 PM

The Keltec P32 is quite a bit smaller and lighter than the LCP. It holds more ammunition.
And, it's a pleasure to shoot

Doyle · June 14, 2018, 07:50 PM

Quote:

IMO, the loooooong trigger of the LCP is just awful.P

You must have shot the original Gen 1 LCP. Gen 2 is MUCH better. I refused to own a G1 but I own and frequently carry a Gen 2.

Carl the Floor Walker · June 14, 2018, 08:05 PM

I owned the original LCP, then 4 of the Gen 2. I was on the LCP forum for many years. And there is a reason why many, and I mean many of the Gen 2 shooters for years will not touch a LCP ll. While I have moved on to other Pocket guns, I will say, that IMO the Gen 2 was a very nice trigger. Actually not long, but very smooth and deliberate. Many of the owners of the Gen 2 actually bought the LCP ll to end up selling the gun and going back to the Gen 2.
Not only did they like the trigger, but many just like myself would not carry the light trigger of the LCP ll.
I still have a LCP Gen 2, the pull weight is actually light at around 6lbs of pull weight. The originial was indeed long. When they came out with the Gen two, it was a huge improvement. For the life of me, I can never understand why Ruger went with such a light trigger like the LCP ll. Even one major Holster maker refused to make a holster for the gun.

TruthTellers · June 14, 2018, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carmady

In a Paul Harrell video he compares shooting HP's from a S&W BG 2.75" barrel and a Beretta 1934 with a 3.5" barrel. From the Beretta the HP expansion looked picture perfect and there was next to no over-penetration, but the lack of velocity from the shorter barrel delivered zero HP expansion and lots of over-penetration.

The 380 part starts at 9:25.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90PQWzx0_MA

Largely the reason why I use Polycase ammo in my LCP. The Hornady CD ammo looks to be reliable in expansion, I would trust it, buy IMO I would rather use the Polycase ammo because it doesn't rely on expansion and is a more repeatable performer once it hits the target.

Cheap too, I don't bother with the fluted bullet, I use the "practice" ammo that has no flutes. I believe given how light and fast the bullet is, it will tumble and cause the same damage as the "defense" ammo will.

K_Mac · June 15, 2018, 08:14 AM

TruthTellers, you can also believe in leprechauns, but your belief doesn't make it so. I've never seen or heard of any evidence of "tumbling" 380 bullets. The best you can hope for from a 380 round that doesn't expand is that it penetrates deep enough to hit something that causes immediate incapacitation.

Edit: I said 380 but .32 is still not fast enough to tumble.

HighValleyRanch · June 15, 2018, 09:19 AM

Has anyone chronographed some loads out of their K32?

I'm interested to see how it compared to my results with my Seecamp.

View Poll Results: Would you buy an LCP II in .32?
Yes	35	34.31%
No	67	65.69%
Voters: 102. You may not vote on this poll

June 13, 2018, 10:56 PM	#26
Onward Allusion Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2009 Location: Back in a Non-Free State Posts: 3,133	I would get a LCP in 32 ACP. The LCP 380 is already bigger than the P3AT. A LCP 32 ACP would likely hold 8 rounds in the mag plus one in the pipe. I'd take 8+1 32 ACP over 6+1 380 in an identically sized pistol any day of the week. __________________ Simple as ABC . . . Always Be Carrying

June 14, 2018, 02:36 AM	#32
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,888	As can be seen in that data, the .32 ACP is virtually tied with .44 Magnum in being used the least. Why? Because it's not as popular. Why? Because people believe, wrongly, that it's no better than .22 is, but costs an arm and a leg in comparison. The data shows that while .32 is the lowest in the fatal hits category, it matches the average for handguns of all calibers in incapacitating shot percentage and it has the highest rating for single shot stops that incapacitate a target. What this shows is that .32 may not be an overly fatal cartridge, but it is effective in stopping an aggressor and that's the whole point of armed self defense: it's not about killing, it's about stopping. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

June 14, 2018, 04:28 AM	#34
Carl the Floor Walker member Join Date: June 3, 2017 Location: South Posts: 1,422	As a Pocket gun enthusiast, I shoot them every time I go to the range and I am a range rat that has yearly memberships at three ranges and belong to a club. Shoot a couple of times a week. A lot of talk about which caliber is better. But not much on actually training with the pocket gun. And Make no mistake, a pocket gun is a defensive weapon no matter what caliber. The biggest mistake people make is the fact that they cannot shoot them worth a hoot. Why? Because they do not train with them. They require frequent, diligent practice and training. Hickcock45 once said. 'They should be for the Advanced shooter". Over the years, I have seen countless people go to the range and mostly with the Ruger LCP, and to the typical GET THE PROPER FORM AND STANCE, TAKE THEIR TIME, FOCUS ON THE BULLS EYE, AND SLOWLY SQUEEZE THE TRIGGER. One reason why they desire a short light Crisp Striker fired trigger. THEY TREAT THESE GUNS LIKE TARGET GUNS! They are not, they are for fast action shooting at 3 to 8 yards. And a whole lot of training must go into shooting them. The LCP is one of the worst I have shot. High recoil, a insane muzzle flip or snap. And for that reason a 32.cal is more suited for the LCP. And using the Gen 2 (not LCP ll) with a more deliberate and longer trigger works just great if not better for fast action shooting. High recoil and a snappy muzzle are not conducive for desirable consistent and frequent training. A 32.cal would be a better choice for frequent training. And accuracy will always trump caliber. And the LCP is not designed for high volume training that you need to do. They will break down like a cheap lawn chair with the constant explosion of the 380 round. They just are not meant for it. A 32.cal would make the gun last much longer, be more mild and hence offer the incentive to train more frequently and of course be more accurate, and much more pleasant to shoot. Forget Bulls Eye training. Train to draw, and shoot the gun in under 3 seconds and to center mass. If you want a 380 get one built to last a lot of rounds down range. No aluminum guns for the 380. I train with steel targets, but when I go to the indoor ranges, I will place the gun on the table and as quickly as possible draw and shoot double taps at two or three reactive target set on one larger targets. Go from one target to the next as quick as possible. Mix It up! Personally I shoot the Beretta Pico. Extremely Mild to shoot, no where near the high muzzle flip and the gun is not only totally reliable, but will hand any hot load you send through it and will shoot a ton of ammo down range with the quality build. Just one example of going to a range and quickly picking up the Pico and going from one target to the next as rapidly as possible with goal to be under 3 sec. to center mass. Double tap to top then bottom or mix it up. Just one training example and of course there are others and use steel targets when possible for more advanced training. On this particular day, a range buddy asked my to try out the ARX ammo. I loaded up a man and fairly quickly shoot a magazine. Taking a little more time than fast action shooting. About 1 sec between shots. Last edited by Carl the Floor Walker; June 14, 2018 at 07:56 PM.

June 14, 2018, 01:00 PM	#38
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	You guys forget that a .22lr from a RIFLE is a very deadly combination. There are LOTS of .22 rifles out there-probably more than any other gun, and rifles are easier to shoot accurately. Those 3 factors probably account for a lot. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

June 14, 2018, 08:00 AM	#35
railroader Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2000 Location: Tucson Arizona Posts: 1,756	I'll pass on a LCP in 32acp. I have a LCP Custom. It runs great and it has decent sights that I can actually use. I can find reasonably priced practice ammo and better choices of self defense ammo for it than 32acp. I can pocket carry it easily so I'm good.

June 14, 2018, 01:48 PM	#40
MTT TL Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2009 Location: Quadling Country Posts: 2,780	I can get a .22 rifle in my pants but it is tough to walk. __________________ Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war.

June 14, 2018, 02:37 PM	#41
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	You don't have to conceal a rifle to shoot someone. I was referring to the ".22 kills more people..." __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

June 14, 2018, 03:21 PM	#42
rpseraph Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2015 Location: MinneSNOWta Posts: 454	I have shot the LCP and LCP II... I own an LCP II and carry it often, chambered and ready to go. IMO, the loooooong trigger of the LCP is just awful. The trigger on the HAMMER FIRED LCP II is a lot better. As far as the people talking about how one or the other isn't comfortable to shoot a lot... is that not the point? I shoot my LCP II enough to be proficient and stay proficient. It is NOT a pleasure to shoot, but I shoot it well and I trust it. When I go to the range I'll spend all day shooting a full size gun, because that IS a pleasure to shoot. To the OP. No, I wouldn't want one in 32. 380 is much more effective, tiny, compact, and as small as I'd want to trust for self defense. I can't see a reason why to have it in 32.

June 14, 2018, 03:49 PM	#43
JERRYS. Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,969	an additional round without adding size. softer shooting for those that prefer it. id go with the .32 in this size gun because the .380 loses much of its advantage when its from such a small gun.

June 14, 2018, 05:48 PM	#45
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	The Keltec P32 is quite a bit smaller and lighter than the LCP. It holds more ammunition. And, it's a pleasure to shoot __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

June 14, 2018, 08:05 PM	#47
Carl the Floor Walker member Join Date: June 3, 2017 Location: South Posts: 1,422	I owned the original LCP, then 4 of the Gen 2. I was on the LCP forum for many years. And there is a reason why many, and I mean many of the Gen 2 shooters for years will not touch a LCP ll. While I have moved on to other Pocket guns, I will say, that IMO the Gen 2 was a very nice trigger. Actually not long, but very smooth and deliberate. Many of the owners of the Gen 2 actually bought the LCP ll to end up selling the gun and going back to the Gen 2. Not only did they like the trigger, but many just like myself would not carry the light trigger of the LCP ll. I still have a LCP Gen 2, the pull weight is actually light at around 6lbs of pull weight. The originial was indeed long. When they came out with the Gen two, it was a huge improvement. For the life of me, I can never understand why Ruger went with such a light trigger like the LCP ll. Even one major Holster maker refused to make a holster for the gun.

June 15, 2018, 08:14 AM	#49
K_Mac Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2010 Posts: 1,850	TruthTellers, you can also believe in leprechauns, but your belief doesn't make it so. I've never seen or heard of any evidence of "tumbling" 380 bullets. The best you can hope for from a 380 round that doesn't expand is that it penetrates deep enough to hit something that causes immediate incapacitation. Edit: I said 380 but .32 is still not fast enough to tumble. __________________ "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Benjamin Franklin Last edited by K_Mac; June 15, 2018 at 12:07 PM.

June 15, 2018, 09:19 AM	#50
HighValleyRanch Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2005 Posts: 4,066	Has anyone chronographed some loads out of their K32? I'm interested to see how it compared to my results with my Seecamp. __________________ From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"