Slide jam on Beretta 92FS?

[RedShift]

As stated in the title, the slide on my 92FS is jammed, maybe a quarter inch backwards, with the barrel trapped with it. It's got a very small amount of play, and when I move it forwards or backwards, the entire assembly moves; barrel included.
I've seen stovepipe-style jams a couple times, with the round hanging out and accessible, and that's not the case here, so 'limp-wristing' or something similar isn't the problem. I was shooting Blazer 115 grain full metal jacket rounds, and the weapon was purchased used.
I can't move the slide back far enough to disassemble the weapon. This was my first time firing it, so I'm not hugely familiar with it; any chance I'm missing something obvious? Any help would be appreciated.

[Stressfire]

That's not good...

It's got a very small amount of play, and when I move it forwards or backwards, the entire assembly moves; barrel included.

Do you mean wiggles? or actually moves?

How many shots before the jam? Is it a live round stuck or an empty?

I would say attempt to force the slide to cycle back to eject the round, there's not much you can do with your hands to break it...hypothetically.

[Don P]

How about a couple of pictures

[Drock]

Sounds like it could be a broken locking block, part #2 in the schematic.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=0...2-Practice-Kit

Hope there's not a round in the chamber. If there is take it to a qualified smith just to be safe.

With a broken locking block there is no way around using some degree of force to move the slide rearward to the back of the pistol. I've seen someone use a rubber mallet and another force the slide against a wooden bench to get the slide moving. If you can get it to move a bit at least you will be able to see the condition of the locking block. Then you'll be able to tell which direction to go in to remove things. Note of warning, too much force can mar the slide.

Let us know what you find out.

Dave

[Marquezj16]

Can you see a round? try putting the slide pointed down on a wooden bench and try to push the frame down. I've had a faulty winchester round get stuck in my LC9 and that's how I got it out.

[Jamas]

On a 92fs you don't have to move the slide to the rear to take it apart. Just press the button rotate the takedown lever and that sucker will come off loaded chamber and all... If its a broken locking block this should still work....
Better yet wait until Shipwreck or AustinTX comment they seem to be the local Beretta gurus.

[Chindo18Z]

Agree with the broken locking block diagnosis. There is probably a piece of one of the block's flanges broken off and tying up normal slide movement. If you can put the pistol into a vise and apply gentle tapping with a rubber mallet, you should be able to free it. Get out a small flashlight and attempt to examine the space between the slide rails and barrel...you may be able to spot the offending chunk of steel...probably a piece measuring 1/4 to 1/3 inch across.

Like this one:

[MidwestRookie]

if it is the locking block..

http://www.berettausa.com/products/9...=locking+block

[RedShift]

Stressfire, I'd say it's more of a 'move' than a 'wiggle'. At rest, there's about 3/16ths of an inch of the guide protruding below the barrel. The slide/barrel assembly will move backwards to leave maybe 5/16ths of the guide exposed.
It is a live round in the chamber.
I fired off two slow shots to get a feel for it (fires a lot smoother than some other 9mm pistols I've shot), and then three shots about half a second apart, followed by a fourth trigger pull that caused a very dissatisfying lack of muzzle report. Following that, I attempted to make it fire again while pointing it at the ground; it may be a live round, but I can confidently say it isn't going anywhere.
I cannot see the round, and I while I can't force it with my hands, I'm pretty certain I'd break something in the gun if I locked it in a vise and put some weight on it. I already tried the takedown lever and taking the slide off, but I think it needs to be all the way forward to remove it; even with lever rotated it won't budge.
I attached a couple cell pictures. Thanks for your comments and input so far.

[Don Glock]

the entire assembly moves; barrel included.

that's normal.

any chance I'm missing something obvious?

put in a new recoil spring.

[RedShift]

The new recoil spring is all well and good, but how do I disassemble the weapon without being able to remove the slide?

[bacardisteve]

I'm with the others its a broken locking block . Piece of said block is jammed between barrell and slide which is why its stuck. You need to put it in a vice and beat it with a rubber. Mallet. When u buy another locking block order two.

[ShipWreck]

How many rounds have been shot thru the gun? Do you know?

[mete]

Locking block ! BTDT It was a problem with the earlier 1951 Beretta, they never cured the problem totally.. Replace locking block [yes you have to beat out the old one !] .Replace recoil spring with one that is stronger !

[graysmoke]

My question to anyone - The (Locking Block) Is this a common or rare incident with the Beretta 92F ?

[Benderx4]

Around the year 2000, Beretta came out with a new locking block design with curved edges that was supposed to distribute the forces/stresses more uniformly than the older "squared" versions. This was in response to stress fractures that occured in the locking blocks apparently caused by more modern, and powerful, +P ammunition.

[lcpiper]

Actually I rapidly became very interested when you mentioned the 4th shot, "dissatisfying report", "tried to make it fire again".

Questions, did the fourth round actually fire, did it seem like the primer popped?

Or when you pulled the trigger did the hammer fail to fall?

Please elaborate.

[Don Glock]

The new recoil spring is all well and good, but how do I disassemble the weapon without being able to remove the slide?

Yeah if you can't move the slide it may very will be a broken locking block as others have said.

[pgdion]

Sounds like it could be a broken locking block,

My guess too, never had it happen but those who have, this was the result I've seen reported. It's almost impossible to limp wrist the 92 and I don't think anything else will put it down like this. Common? sort of, The locking block will tend to fail after many many thousands of rounds. That's why buy one & have a spare and it's one of those pieces to check during cleaning.

The other concern is the bad report 4th shot left the bullet lodged in the barrel but cycled the round and loaded a new cartridge. The next shot would be not so good. When you tried firing it at the ground after the 4th shot, did it fire again?

[DBLAction454]

sorry to hear...try using a needle or a very small tool and push the extractor away from the round....it sounds like the casing expanded in the chamber causing it to be completely locked up...but whenever you try to pull the slide back the extractor is trying to catch the casing...push the extractor away from the round and pull back at the same time... its worth a shot... if it works then at least you can get the slide back and the casing is probably stuck/expanded in the chamber..

[ShipWreck]

Locking blocks are recommended to be changed at the 20k mark. I routinely read of breaks for people RIGHT past 20k. I'd recommend changing it every 15k.

Although, the newest generation ones are the best and strongest.

I have seen some people online claim to have over 40K thru their Berettas on the original locking block - so, ya never know.

But the recoil spring should be changed every 3-5k to increase locking block longevity (I recently changed one out at 3700, as it was significantly shorter). Trigger return springs should be changed every 5k as preventative maintenance as well.

[RedShift]

All of you saying it's the locking block had it sounding like a pretty closed case, and I was planning on following through that route. However, lcpiper got me thinking; to clarify, that fourth rapid shot did *not* fire, and by 'dissatisfying lack of muzzle report', I meant none. Furthermore, while I'm not certain how much use the weapon has seen, it was purchased *gently* used, and it's actually in excellent condition. I highly doubt it's anywhere remotely near that line.
The whole point of a blowback pistol is that the gas of a round forces the slide backwards, and the round had not actually fired yet, (and still hasn't, as the live round is inside the weapon.) Would the locking block have broken as the slide returned to it's static position from the previous round? It seems more likely to me that the force of a round being fired would have been the cause of such a malfunction.
If the locking block broke, it would have had to have been right before the slide made it all the way back, and right before the next round fired, since the hammer was already cocked, and remains irreversibly so.

[redneck]

My guess is that its the locking block as well.

Here's an animation of how your pistol works. The locking block is the wedge underneath the chamber and you can see at the end of the animation how the wedge locks into place as the next round is chambered. If the locking block broke as it unlocked on your 3rd shot it could easily have bound the slide up as the 4th round chambered. Now the gun isn't fully into battery so the 4th round won't shoot, and the broken locking block is keeping the slide from opening back up.

http://youtu.be/vfKTEYZpMLA

[Chindo18Z]

graysmoke: My question to anyone - The (Locking Block) Is this a common or rare incident with the Beretta 92F ?

There are quite a few threads about Beretta 92s & locking blocks if you search the forum.

Here's one:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386334



RedShift: If your issue does turn out to be a locking block, you might consider voting in the poll included in the above thread.

I wish you luck with freeing up the pistol. You might try liberally flooding the interior of the slide/barrel interface with gun oil. Sometimes the locking block can be wiggled or tapped out of place (from where it's currently jammed) with only a little force applied to tapping the slide. In other instances, it can take significant pounding to free up the jam and you may damage the slide or its rails. Go easy. I'd suggest applying any force towards getting the slide to retract. In other words, tap the slide backwards (towards the hammer). If you think there is a round fully chambered (which I doubt), you will need to do this on a range or in a gun shop with a clearing barrel. Using a vise to secure the pistol is recommended (padding the pistol with pieces of leather, rubber, plastic, automotive chamois, or even a "Shamwow" if you don't have purpose built vise pads).

Here's another interactive Beretta 92 Function clip:

Genitron_com Basics-Interactive Illustrated Beretta Pistol.mht

The below site has EXCELLENT sequential videos covering detailed Beretta disassembly/reassembly, but it probably won't help until you get the slide freed up and need to replace the locking block with a new one:

http://beretta92fs.com/index.html

I suspect that the 4th round never fully chambered. So you may have a live round not completely seated. In any event, keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction and wear eye-pro while monkeying with the pistol. Naturally, keep the decocker lever in the SAFE position.

If you are not sure about the safety of the situation, take it to a gunsmith.

Hope this helps...

[pgdion]

Ahhh, I understand much better now. By bad report I thought the cartridge had gone off but not sounded right. But I get it now, the cartridge did not fire at all and the hammer won't even release. This and looking at your pictures again I'd say the gun did not go into battery (the slide returned all the way forward) and that is why the hammer won't release. And yes, you can count on the round being live then. This is where the often criticized safety on the Beretta is a plus, it can still be activated and it will block the firing pin from the hammer in the event the hammer does release (I still maintain it's the best safety out there). And still be careful working on it of course.

Sounds like locking block. Probably broke on shot 3 and jammed up during the cycling. If it was my 92, if I couldn't wiggle it free (the lube is a good idea to try), then I'd take it in to a smith. I'd sure hate to mess up my 92 trying to force it myself. Maybe try holding the gun in different orientations (left side up, right side up, grip up, ect) and tapping on it while working the slide to see if the jammed piece will fall free and let the slide open.

Keep the faith, it should be a small problem that's just causing a big headache right now. I Just hit the range last night and brought my 92FS with. Yes, these guns do shoot sweet. It's a bummer on the malfunction but once you get it fixed, you will love this gun guaranteed!