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Old February 23, 2015, 09:15 PM   #1
ccowboy
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Ammo reloads for reproduction conversions and Colt open top revolvers

I have a Uberti reproduction of one of Colt's conversion revolvers in .38 special. I'm looking for smokeless reload options which are safe to use with this gun for days when I don't feel like cleaning up after shooting black powder. I'm looking for reloads at or below 800 fps. Would it be easier to go by the CUP pressure figures to determine safe loads or is fps a better criteria?
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Old February 24, 2015, 10:09 AM   #2
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I know that my Speer reloading manual specifically shows CAS loads for 38 special. Any appropriate loads labeled CAS would be quite safe in modern reproduction conversions.
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Old February 24, 2015, 11:38 AM   #3
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Old February 24, 2015, 05:40 PM   #4
45 Dragoon
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Well, if it's made for .38 spl, then shoot what ya want. Store boughts are fine.
Does the paperwork that came with the gun say "cowboy loads" only?

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Old February 24, 2015, 09:46 PM   #5
Driftwood Johnson
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Quote:
Would it be easier to go by the CUP pressure figures to determine safe loads or is fps a better criteria?
Velocity is never the criteria to determine what is safe and what is not safe in a particular firearm. It is too much pressure that damages or destroys firearms, not velocity. Velocity is the product of many variables; selection of powder, powder charge, bullet weight, and pressure. One load propelling a bullet at a certain velocity may generate an entirely different amount of pressure than another load pushing the same bullet at the same velocity. It is a pet peeve of mine that reloaders often ask whether a certain velocity is safe to shoot in a particular firearm when what they should be asking is what pressure is safe.

Unfortunately, there is no SAAMI spec for pressure of Cowboy Loads. It just does not exist. Some firearms manufacturers may specify a specific velocity (the manufacturers of conversion cylinders for C&B revolvers do this) but as I have said, it is pressure that is the key, not velocity.

Having said all that, and without knowing specifically which Colt conversion you are talking about, all firearms made in Italy are proofed in government proof houses. They are proofed with proof loads that generate about 1/3 more pressure than the European standards for pressure. This means that such a revolver will be perfectly safe to shoot with American SAAMI spec ammunition. You do not have to limit it to Cowboy loads.
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Old February 25, 2015, 08:18 AM   #6
rodwhaincamo
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Something I read on a forum was a couple of fellows who would use a good bit of Ballistol on their gun after a range day with the idea being that the hydroscopic soot would soak up the oil and leave no room for moisture. This made sense so I tried it.

I usually run couple of wet patches (both sides) followed by a couple of alcohol patches at the range prior to packing out. I then used a patch with Ballistol down the bore followed by just a spray down the bore and into the openings along with a wipe down with my oily rag. I left both pistols in the garage, one for 2 days, here in TX where the humidity is well above 80% typically, and found not a bit of rust.

I still prefer to clean up what I've shot when I get home, but there are just times that it might be nice to put it off until tomorrow, and now I know how. I'd venture to guess most any oil would work, but I use and love Ballistol.
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Old February 25, 2015, 09:37 AM   #7
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If you really want to know how good Ballistol is, I can tell you. I and my wife came home from a Cas match where I shot a pair of 1860 army revolvers, and blackpowder cartridges in rifle and shotgun. She was having lower abdomen pains. I lightly sprayed the guns down, and we went to the hospital. She ended up having her appendix out the next morning. Anyway, I totally forgot those guns for several weeks, at least a month.
They were fine. No rust, none at all. Cleanup was 3 dry patches, and wipedown of the outside.
Shooting regular goex powder.
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Old February 25, 2015, 01:24 PM   #8
45 Dragoon
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Wow! I hear it's a great time of year to see the Tower of London too!!

Huh?

When did we change gears from ammo to cleaning?? (I must be older than I thought!!! lol)

Mike
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Old February 25, 2015, 03:57 PM   #9
bedbugbilly
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If it's chambered for 38 spl. you should be able to shoot standard 38 special in it that meet SAAMI standards/specs.

If you are re-loading - and personally, I would only be shooting lead down it - get yourself a Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. There are plenty of smokeless loads in there for different bullet designs/weights or as suggested, look in your loading manual for "cowboy loads". I'm assuming that if you are reloading you do have a manual?

It's easy enough to load 38 spl in "mild" loads - I do it all the time with lead boolit weights of anywhere from 90 gr up to 160 grain lead bullets. That revolver also allows you to shoot 38 Colt Short and Long and Starline makes the brass - available though them or Track of the Wolf. Of course those casings are shorter than 38 Spl. so you have less case volume and they need to be loaded to specs for those cartridges.

Unless it is a converted C & B (started out as C & B) - if it was made as a "conversion" by Uberti your bore should be the same as standard 38/357 - i.e. .357. If you are shooting cast lead - size them at .359 or .359 - or measure how they drop from the mold. If a couple thousandths over .357 - they should work just fine.

I use a variety of powders for my "mild loads" - Bulls Eye, Red Dot, Unique, etc. Lot's of choices out there - just check the loading data and as always, start low and work up. If you are going to stick to around 800 fps - and using lead/lead alloy - you should be able to tumble lube in Alox/Paste Wax and they'll do just fine. What gives you "leading" usually is an undersize bullet . . .
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Old February 25, 2015, 04:52 PM   #10
Gunfixr
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45 dragoon,
I was only responding to the previous post.
I did not know that thread drift was not allowed here.
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Old February 25, 2015, 06:29 PM   #11
45 Dragoon
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Just wondered why the topic went to Ballistol!! Didn't see it mentioned

You can drift anywhere ya want . . . . . . I ain't ya daddy!!

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Old February 25, 2015, 07:10 PM   #12
Gunfixr
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Don't know, guy before me put it in there, I relayed my experience.
Guy behind you brought it back.
You just seemed upset for some reason.
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Old February 25, 2015, 09:29 PM   #13
45 Dragoon
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Not upset lol, just a weird thing to see! I expected a .38 SPL remark and got Ballistol!! Checked to see if I clicked the right thread!

Mike
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Old February 26, 2015, 10:57 AM   #14
rodwhaincamo
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I mentioned Ballistol and the ability to put off cleaning because of the OP's statement:

"I'm looking for smokeless reload options which are safe to use with this gun for days when I don't feel like cleaning up after shooting black powder."

I figured if he was wanting an ammo switch for the times he didn't want to immediately clean up he'd probably appreciate knowing that Ballistol may be a solution.

A little sidetracked, but not exactly off topic in a round about way...
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Old February 26, 2015, 11:50 AM   #15
45 Dragoon
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Oooooooooh !! Now I get it !!!!!! LOL!! I see where you're going now, sorry for the screw up!!!!

PS. Another vote for Ballistol!

Mike
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Old February 26, 2015, 11:51 AM   #16
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If I'm not mistaken, .38 short Colt is what these '51 Navy conversion were in fact originally chambered in. Any gun chambered in .38 special or .357 magnum can shoot .38 short Colts safely. Accuracy should still be good in your gun, even though the bullet has to jump a ways before it hits rifling. I've fired .38 short Colts in my Ruger GP100, and it felt like a BB gun and wasn't much louder!

Remington currently makes .38 Short Colt, and it would be easy on your gun, smokeless, and period correct to boot.

Here is some for a good price: https://www.targetsportsusa.com/remi...sc-p-4108.aspx
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Old February 26, 2015, 12:07 PM   #17
rodwhaincamo
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Ahhh phooey! No screw up.
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Old February 26, 2015, 02:42 PM   #18
sawdustdad
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An answer to Ccowboy for a mild .38spl load under 800fps. I am loading 2.7g 700x under a 125g soft lead (BNH 12) or HiTek coated lead bullet for CAS. Lots of "cowboy" load data out there--most are milder than standard .38spl. But as has been said, lots of other powders will work, too. I use 700x 'cause I have it.
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