lead bullet question from a noob

jnestle · March 17, 2010, 07:20 PM

I am about a week or so away from starting my reloading journey and I am interested in reloading Rainier or Berry's bullets for a Springfield XDM 40. I keep reading that almost no load data exists for these bullets and the recommendation is to use the same load data that you would for lead bullets. So my question now is do I simply use lead load data for a comparable weight Berry or Ranier bullet or does bullet type etc come into play?

Thanks in advance for your expertise,

JNestle

Jim Watson · March 17, 2010, 07:30 PM

From one horse's mouth:
(Berry's)Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads.

And the other's:
We, at Rainier Ballistics, recommend using lead bullet load data when loading our bullets. There is no need for adjustment when using lead bullet load data. Our bullets are jacketed using an electroplating process and are softer than traditionally jacketed bullets; hence the recommendation to use lead bullet load data. If you only have access to traditionally jacketed load data, we recommend reducing maximum charge by 10%. A roll or taper crimp may be used with our bullets; do not over crimp.

Clear enough? You will find that lead and jacketed bullet load data will often overlap. So the different brand's recommendations are not really much different. Y'all be careful, now, you hear?

Tex S · March 17, 2010, 07:36 PM

Quote:

use the same load data that you would for lead bullets.

Why not just use lead bullets then? They are cheaper.

Sevens · March 17, 2010, 09:08 PM

Are you asking the OP why he doesn't just use lead bullets? Or are you asking why there are any plated bullets for sale in the first place?

Plated bullets have their place in the world. They tend to be a little cleaner in the bore and they are much cheaper than jacketed bullets if you find yourself often shooting at an indoor range if they prohibit lead bullets. They also smoke quite a bit less and that is seen easily at an indoor range.

I use them in some applications but I'm more of a cast lead guy myself.

Tex S · March 18, 2010, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Are you asking the OP why he doesn't just use lead bullets? Or are you asking why there are any plated bullets for sale in the first place?

A little bit of both I guess.

Valid point with the whole indoor range thing. Sometimes I forget that alot of folks shoot at indoor ranges. I am lucky to be in Texas where the weather is usually good, and we have a multitude of private land and outdoor ranges. I haven't been to an indoor range in forever so for me it just doesn't make sense to buy plated, but for indoor range use I can see the benefits.

Sevens · March 19, 2010, 08:19 AM

...and if you don't need to go to an indoor range, bro you ain't missing much! They are LOUDER, dirtier, lighting is horrible, a zillion rules (most of which are necessary...) and there is less space, cost more to shoot at, you lose a lot of brass...

I could go on & on. But shooting on an indoor range is TERRIFIC when the weather is cold or snowy or just plain bad, or if you find yourself with no outdoor opportunities.

Sevens · March 19, 2010, 08:26 AM

On other bit...

The biggest annoyance with plated bullets, at least in my opinion (and experience!) is that someone who is new to the reloading ballgame will see them in a shop, in a box, with a price tag that is much closer to cast lead than it is to jacketed and they simply have no idea what a plated bullet is. And if you manage to get a look at one (if the box can be opened or if there is a picture or a display bullet) then as a new reloader, it just looks close enough to an FMJ/TMJ bullet that you think, "Wow, this is a helluva deal!"

If you don't know what a plated bullet is and how to use them, and you think you have jacketed bullets, you will most likely be let down.

But if you know going in what they are and how to use them, you might find that they are a good product and can fill a specific role at a decent price point.

That's how I use them. I use them in .380 because they are cleaner than lead and they are welcome on an indoor range. And I use them in .30 Carbine because I have a pretty accurate launch platform and I don't ask them for 100 yard distance (Ruger Blackhawk revolver) and for those needs, they perform admirably and are significantly cheaper than jacketed bullets.

zippy13 · March 19, 2010, 02:59 PM

Sevens, you forgot another down-side: even with all of the safeguards, you may have a greater chance of exposure to toxins shooting indoors. I'm old and use lead-based green paint to freshen guacamole dip that's gone off, so it doesn't matter much for me; but, you younger shooters may want to carefully evaluate your shooting environment.

jnestle · March 19, 2010, 06:25 PM

Ok I am going to really show my ignorance now.
When you said "You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading " I assume by "profile" you are referring, for example a Jacketed Hollow point vs Full metal jacket so forth and so on... given the same weight?
I really appreciate the help! I am determined to eventually get up to speed with this.

Thanks,
Jnestle

jepp2 · March 19, 2010, 07:03 PM

The main reason profile is important is because profile affects bullet length. Given a suggested OAL, the bullet length impacts seating depth. Seating depth can significantly change the pressure. The 40 is very susceptible to changes in pressure with minor changes in seating depth.

You never want to use a heavier bullet weight with a lighter bullet load. If you can't find a profile/weight match, go with a heavier bullet load for your lighter bullet.

Jim Watson · March 19, 2010, 07:41 PM

Well, by "profile" I take them to mean roundnose, flatpoint, hollowpoint, semiwadcutter. Not that the visible nose shape affects the load directly, but it can affect the seating depth which is a big factor in chamber pressure.

Don't expect to find a "recipe" for every possible bullet and powder combination. Sometimes you just have to get as close as you can and apply the boring fine print about starting 10% below maximum and "working up."
I normally work up handgun loads with a chronograph.

March 17, 2010, 07:20 PM	#1
jnestle Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 15	lead bullet question from a noob I am about a week or so away from starting my reloading journey and I am interested in reloading Rainier or Berry's bullets for a Springfield XDM 40. I keep reading that almost no load data exists for these bullets and the recommendation is to use the same load data that you would for lead bullets. So my question now is do I simply use lead load data for a comparable weight Berry or Ranier bullet or does bullet type etc come into play? Thanks in advance for your expertise, JNestle

March 17, 2010, 09:08 PM	#4
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Are you asking the OP why he doesn't just use lead bullets? Or are you asking why there are any plated bullets for sale in the first place? Plated bullets have their place in the world. They tend to be a little cleaner in the bore and they are much cheaper than jacketed bullets if you find yourself often shooting at an indoor range if they prohibit lead bullets. They also smoke quite a bit less and that is seen easily at an indoor range. I use them in some applications but I'm more of a cast lead guy myself. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

March 19, 2010, 08:19 AM	#6
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	...and if you don't need to go to an indoor range, bro you ain't missing much! They are LOUDER, dirtier, lighting is horrible, a zillion rules (most of which are necessary...) and there is less space, cost more to shoot at, you lose a lot of brass... I could go on & on. But shooting on an indoor range is TERRIFIC when the weather is cold or snowy or just plain bad, or if you find yourself with no outdoor opportunities. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

March 19, 2010, 08:26 AM	#7
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	On other bit... The biggest annoyance with plated bullets, at least in my opinion (and experience!) is that someone who is new to the reloading ballgame will see them in a shop, in a box, with a price tag that is much closer to cast lead than it is to jacketed and they simply have no idea what a plated bullet is. And if you manage to get a look at one (if the box can be opened or if there is a picture or a display bullet) then as a new reloader, it just looks close enough to an FMJ/TMJ bullet that you think, "Wow, this is a helluva deal!" If you don't know what a plated bullet is and how to use them, and you think you have jacketed bullets, you will most likely be let down. But if you know going in what they are and how to use them, you might find that they are a good product and can fill a specific role at a decent price point. That's how I use them. I use them in .380 because they are cleaner than lead and they are welcome on an indoor range. And I use them in .30 Carbine because I have a pretty accurate launch platform and I don't ask them for 100 yard distance (Ruger Blackhawk revolver) and for those needs, they perform admirably and are significantly cheaper than jacketed bullets. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

March 19, 2010, 06:25 PM	#9
jnestle Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 15	Thanks Jim...question Ok I am going to really show my ignorance now. When you said "You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading " I assume by "profile" you are referring, for example a Jacketed Hollow point vs Full metal jacket so forth and so on... given the same weight? I really appreciate the help! I am determined to eventually get up to speed with this. Thanks, Jnestle

March 17, 2010, 07:30 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	From one horse's mouth: (Berry's)Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads. And the other's: We, at Rainier Ballistics, recommend using lead bullet load data when loading our bullets. There is no need for adjustment when using lead bullet load data. Our bullets are jacketed using an electroplating process and are softer than traditionally jacketed bullets; hence the recommendation to use lead bullet load data. If you only have access to traditionally jacketed load data, we recommend reducing maximum charge by 10%. A roll or taper crimp may be used with our bullets; do not over crimp. Clear enough? You will find that lead and jacketed bullet load data will often overlap. So the different brand's recommendations are not really much different. Y'all be careful, now, you hear?

March 19, 2010, 02:59 PM	#8
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Sevens, you forgot another down-side: even with all of the safeguards, you may have a greater chance of exposure to toxins shooting indoors. I'm old and use lead-based green paint to freshen guacamole dip that's gone off, so it doesn't matter much for me; but, you younger shooters may want to carefully evaluate your shooting environment.

March 19, 2010, 07:03 PM	#10
jepp2 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 1,476	The main reason profile is important is because profile affects bullet length. Given a suggested OAL, the bullet length impacts seating depth. Seating depth can significantly change the pressure. The 40 is very susceptible to changes in pressure with minor changes in seating depth. You never want to use a heavier bullet weight with a lighter bullet load. If you can't find a profile/weight match, go with a heavier bullet load for your lighter bullet.

March 19, 2010, 07:41 PM	#11
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	Well, by "profile" I take them to mean roundnose, flatpoint, hollowpoint, semiwadcutter. Not that the visible nose shape affects the load directly, but it can affect the seating depth which is a big factor in chamber pressure. Don't expect to find a "recipe" for every possible bullet and powder combination. Sometimes you just have to get as close as you can and apply the boring fine print about starting 10% below maximum and "working up." I normally work up handgun loads with a chronograph.