Introduce me to the AK - Page 2

towboat-er · January 15, 2014, 10:00 PM

It's a darned good rifle for $500.00 Probably one of the best deals going.

Ridge_Runner_5 · January 15, 2014, 11:21 PM

Allow Nicolas Cage to give you a rundown on the AK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H99XlWQ9KsA

Ben Towe · January 16, 2014, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ridge_Runner_5

Allow Nicolas Cage to give you a rundown on the AK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H99XlWQ9KsA

I love that movie.

I intend to have an AK after I get a few more ARs built. The Centurion 39 really caught my eye (I like to buy American) but I've heard some people badmouth Century Arms.

Bart Noir · January 16, 2014, 07:27 PM

It sure seems like some of the people in this thread think that they can buy a Bulgarian made military configuration semi-auto AK-47. Or Russian, etc. You cannot, not unless it was imported prior to some date many years ago. 1989? I am not sure.

What you can buy is:

(1) A sporting rifle imported from another country (but not China, it seems that semi-auto from China is treated differently) which has been reworked (with US made parts) into a military configuration semi-auto AK-47.

OR

(2) A set of actual military parts from other countries that are assembled in the USA (with US-made parts), to end up with a military configuration semi-auto AK-47.

To be legal, both of the above methods require compliance with Title 18 of the US Code (18 USC), Chapter 44 Section 922 Paragraph R. The shorthand is “922 (r) compliance”. I won’t get into the details, but there is a limit of 10 for the number of non-US parts allowed, off a list of specific parts. Things like barrels and receivers and triggers etc. And there are some other oh-by-the-ways concerning barrels, I think.

So unless you are looking at something that has been in USA for years, you are getting a US-made AK. You will have non-US parts but lots of what you see and touch is actually made in USA, as is final assembly. My “Romanian” Century Arms and my “Yugo” Century Arms were built on US-made receivers, for instance.

I mention this since I feel that generally the real decider of quality is the company in the US, not the company overseas. Anybody disagree with me?

Bart Noir

AK103K · January 16, 2014, 07:51 PM

Quote:

My “Romanian” Century Arms and my “Yugo” Century Arms were built on US-made receivers, for instance.

Not sure about the Yugo's, but the Century SAR's and WASR's, are not "made" here, they are made in Romania, and in the case of the WASR, have the mag wells opened up, and the original trigger group, and some other parts, replaced with US made compliance parts, to get around the regs.

The Saigas are also built in Russia, and modifed for import. The barreled receiver is still basically an "AK", and depending on how far you want to go with, or who you get to do the restoration, are basically semi auto AK's when done.

Its been my experience, those guns made/barreled in the country of origin, are usually the best shooters, and any troubles with them, are usually because of the crappy US made compliance parts. Put the original innards back in them, and they usually work fine.

Justice06RR · January 17, 2014, 02:29 AM

Agreed with the above post.

My first AK is a Draco 12" pistol so it does not have to undergo 922r and is basically straight from the factory. It's magwell is not opened up further (correct me if I'm wrong). Tapco ribbed mags do not fit, so I only use steel mags for it.

I had a WASR10/63 very briefly last summer; that was a crappy gun although it shot straight and true. Craftmanship leaves a lot to be desired so it was disposed of very shortly

Now I own a converted Saiga47 (except the gas tube and handguard). Great AK so far but I haven't shot it much.

Justice06RR · January 17, 2014, 02:31 AM

Quote:

I mention this since I feel that generally the real decider of quality is the company in the US, not the company overseas. Anybody disagree with me?

Bart Noir

Yes that plays a major part for the end result of an AK. CAI gets downplayed quite often. I like Arsenal and Krebs and plan to use them in the future.

Baba Louie · January 17, 2014, 01:06 PM

Quote:

...I would appreciate an intro to Kalashnikovs.

Get a copy of C.J. Chiver's book The Gun
http://cjchivers.com/aboutthegun

Cheap commie gun. Goes bang every time. We don't get "da switch" so any you buy or look to buy here will be neutered in that regard (it goes without saying).

As others have said, milled or stamped receivers. Some like this, others, that. 6 to 1, half a dozen to the other. Fixed stock, folding stock. More options to ponder.

Yugos typically do not have chromed barrels and if you read Chiver's book you learn they did a reverse engineered clone as opposed to getting the A-OK from mother Russia, so Zastava products will vary from other AKs in a couple regards.

The Czechs also didn't play ball with the old soviets fully and developed their different version using the same round, their vz-58. (nice rifle btw)

Clintons ban on Sino AKs did the old supply/demand thing to the Poly/Nork AKs already here, so the few unmolested AKS' brought in early seem to hold value, but at its heart,... cheap commie gun. But a pretty nice one at that, one might surmise. (if the .gov hates it, it's gotta be ok... right?)

Then, there's the cartridge they utilize to ponder/consider. M43, aka 7.62x39 was the original. Post Vietnam War era the Russians came up with their 5.45x39 and the AK-74. There are a few 5.56/.223s out there as well. Nowadays you can find AK variants in .308, or 8mm and maybe Russia's older & bigger 7.62x54r.

The Finns Valmet and Israel's Galil are refined variants.
http://www.valmetweapons.com/Valmet_Rifles.html

Right now Zastava is selling their PAP series here (Century Arms Intn'l actually, Zastava just makes them)... http://www.zastava-arms.rs/en

There's also the whole 922r compliance legality thing for imports nowadays with a number of US made parts required.

Having written all that and not even beginning to touch on the subject matter...
Try to read Chiver's book if you get a chance. It will open your eyes to the world of Avtomat Kalashnikova (and more)

Bart Noir · January 17, 2014, 02:45 PM

Agree with Baba, that is a good book.

I should have mentioned a third option in my list of (2)

At least two companies seem to be making AKs that are totally made in the US of A. Those are Arsenal USA and I.O. Inc. They are good quality guns and the prices reflect that.

What I don't like about some of the Arsenal and I.O. Inc guns, is that somebody had the bright idea to move the front sight back onto the gas block. So you end up with a sight radius barely bigger than some long barreled revolvers. That is not good for accuracy.

Accuracy? AK-47? How can they be mentioned together, you ask? With quality ammo, they can. Sorta.

Bart Noir

Bart Noir · January 17, 2014, 02:49 PM

I can also recommend the books written by Patrick Sweeney, and he wrote one about the AK and the SKS.

Sweeney's book on the AK

Bart Noir

Justice06RR · January 18, 2014, 04:41 AM

Accuracy on an AK might be achieved if you add an optic setup. I hate the crude sighting system on most stock AK's, and I usually end up adding on optic to mine.

My previous WASR10 was pretty accurate with irons and it had straight front sights.
Now my current Saiga47 has canted front sights which is annoying for me. Considering the WASR is a $500 AK and my converted Saiga was around $1k

January 16, 2014, 07:27 PM	#29
Bart Noir Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2000 Location: Puget Sound, USA Posts: 2,215	It sure seems like some of the people in this thread think that they can buy a Bulgarian made military configuration semi-auto AK-47. Or Russian, etc. You cannot, not unless it was imported prior to some date many years ago. 1989? I am not sure. What you can buy is: (1) A sporting rifle imported from another country (but not China, it seems that semi-auto from China is treated differently) which has been reworked (with US made parts) into a military configuration semi-auto AK-47. OR (2) A set of actual military parts from other countries that are assembled in the USA (with US-made parts), to end up with a military configuration semi-auto AK-47. To be legal, both of the above methods require compliance with Title 18 of the US Code (18 USC), Chapter 44 Section 922 Paragraph R. The shorthand is “922 (r) compliance”. I won’t get into the details, but there is a limit of 10 for the number of non-US parts allowed, off a list of specific parts. Things like barrels and receivers and triggers etc. And there are some other oh-by-the-ways concerning barrels, I think. So unless you are looking at something that has been in USA for years, you are getting a US-made AK. You will have non-US parts but lots of what you see and touch is actually made in USA, as is final assembly. My “Romanian” Century Arms and my “Yugo” Century Arms were built on US-made receivers, for instance. I mention this since I feel that generally the real decider of quality is the company in the US, not the company overseas. Anybody disagree with me? Bart Noir __________________ Be of good cheer and mindful of your gun muzzle!

January 17, 2014, 02:45 PM	#34
Bart Noir Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2000 Location: Puget Sound, USA Posts: 2,215	Agree with Baba, that is a good book. I should have mentioned a third option in my list of (2) At least two companies seem to be making AKs that are totally made in the US of A. Those are Arsenal USA and I.O. Inc. They are good quality guns and the prices reflect that. What I don't like about some of the Arsenal and I.O. Inc guns, is that somebody had the bright idea to move the front sight back onto the gas block. So you end up with a sight radius barely bigger than some long barreled revolvers. That is not good for accuracy. Accuracy? AK-47? How can they be mentioned together, you ask? With quality ammo, they can. Sorta. Bart Noir __________________ Be of good cheer and mindful of your gun muzzle!

January 17, 2014, 02:49 PM	#35
Bart Noir Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2000 Location: Puget Sound, USA Posts: 2,215	Books on the AK I can also recommend the books written by Patrick Sweeney, and he wrote one about the AK and the SKS. Sweeney's book on the AK Bart Noir __________________ Be of good cheer and mindful of your gun muzzle!

January 15, 2014, 10:00 PM	#26
towboat-er Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2011 Posts: 146	It's a darned good rifle for $500.00 Probably one of the best deals going.

January 15, 2014, 11:21 PM	#27
Ridge_Runner_5 Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2008 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,925	Allow Nicolas Cage to give you a rundown on the AK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H99XlWQ9KsA

January 17, 2014, 02:29 AM	#31
Justice06RR Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2010 Location: Central FL Posts: 1,360	Agreed with the above post. My first AK is a Draco 12" pistol so it does not have to undergo 922r and is basically straight from the factory. It's magwell is not opened up further (correct me if I'm wrong). Tapco ribbed mags do not fit, so I only use steel mags for it. I had a WASR10/63 very briefly last summer; that was a crappy gun although it shot straight and true. Craftmanship leaves a lot to be desired so it was disposed of very shortly Now I own a converted Saiga47 (except the gas tube and handguard). Great AK so far but I haven't shot it much.

January 18, 2014, 04:41 AM	#36
Justice06RR Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2010 Location: Central FL Posts: 1,360	Accuracy on an AK might be achieved if you add an optic setup. I hate the crude sighting system on most stock AK's, and I usually end up adding on optic to mine. My previous WASR10 was pretty accurate with irons and it had straight front sights. Now my current Saiga47 has canted front sights which is annoying for me. Considering the WASR is a $500 AK and my converted Saiga was around $1k