Looking into S&W J frame - Page 2

magmax · August 29, 2012, 11:15 AM

Hard to go wrong with a Smith & Wesson J frame. I have been carrying the AirLite Ti 332 for the past 12 years or so. Very simple, gun with trigger.
David

mr-mom · August 29, 2012, 06:35 PM

+++ for the 637. Love the way it looks, carrys, and shoots. Has replaced my Glock 26 as a daily carry. IWB appendix.

Nathan · August 29, 2012, 07:55 PM

I like my 640. I don't know an exposed hammer to be a bad thing, but I do know a concealed hammer to be a good thing.

claimbuster · August 30, 2012, 12:35 AM

Have, and carry a M640 & M640-3. The 640-3 in 357 used to be my EDC for several years. Also have a 3" M60 with adjustable sights that is a nice trail gun. Mrs. CB has a M640 and a M36 3". She learned to shoot handgun with the M36.

dahermit · August 30, 2012, 09:41 AM

Spur hammer on a pocket gun is not logical. The shape of a DA revolver is designed specifically for DA shooting and is somewhat awkward for thumb cocking (compare the manipulation with a true SA revolver and see.) DA is best for self-defense in a close-up situation. If the threat is not close-up, then your motivation for shooting can be brought into question. Those who want to maintain the ability of thumb cocking the gun to shoot single action seem oblivious to that fact. In what possible scenario would you, 1. Have the need to thumb cock. 2. Thumb cocking would be better than double action?
Consider the statement: "I have a spur on the hammer of my pocket gun and it never caught on anything." Begs two questions: Does that absolutely ensure that it never will? How often has that gun (with a spur), been drawn in an actual life-threatening situation?
Spurless self-defense pocket-carry revolvers:
S&W M36

Taurus M85

RedBowTies88 · August 30, 2012, 09:52 AM

What if the BG grabbed a hostage and precision shooting was needed? What is you were undisclosed to the BG and wanted to have the best change for good shot placement on the intaial shot?

Sure most of the time DA would have to be used exclusively...but there are cases where SA would be useful. Plus as I said.. I've never had my model 37 snag on my pocket (usung a posket holster greatly reduces the chance of a snag IMHO) with hundreds of draw and fire drills. Not even once

dahermit · August 30, 2012, 02:45 PM

Quote:

What if the BG grabbed a hostage and precision shooting was needed? What is you were undisclosed to the BG and wanted to have the best change for good shot placement on the intaial shot?

Bang! Whoops! I shot the hostage right through the head. Now, how the hell am I going to explain this to the police? Where in the different States Concealed Carry laws does it give the right for a private citizen to shoot at a perpetrator holding a hostage?

Quote:

Sure most of the time DA would have to be used exclusively...but there are cases where SA would be useful.

Just what cases are those? Please, not fantasy instances, but real-life, verifiable instances.

Quote:

Plus as I said.. I've never had my model 37 snag on my pocket (using a posket holster greatly reduces the chance of a snag IMHO) with hundreds of draw and fire drills. Not even once

How many times have you drawn it in a life-threatening situation? The only way you can say a hammer spur will not catch in the fabric of your pocket is if your gun does not have one.

As I have asked those who do not believe in bobbing the hammer, just exactly what scenario can you envision that you would need to thumb-cock a double action?

2damnold4this · August 30, 2012, 03:06 PM

I like a hammer spur on a kit gun. It's easier to shoot a rattlesnake in the head with the lighter trigger in single action mode. But I carry a 642 and if I stay in practice, I can hit a snake head in DAO. Having no hammer spur is a better choice for me on a concealed carry gun.

Quote:

Where in the different States Concealed Carry laws does it give the right for a private citizen to shoot at a perpetrator holding a hostage?

Most states allow for the use of deadly force to protect others in certain circumstances. Georgia, for example states: A person is justified in using threats or force to the degree they reasonably believe it is necessary to stop another person's imminent use of unlawful force. A person is justified in using deadly force which may harm or kill only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or herself or a third person or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony...

dahermit · August 30, 2012, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Most states allow for the use of deadly force to protect others in certain circumstances. Georgia, for example states: A person is justified in using threats or force to the degree they reasonably believe it is necessary to stop another person's imminent use of unlawful force. A person is justified in using deadly force which may harm or kill only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or herself or a third person or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony...

It is legitimate argument to say that a person holding a hostage is not likely going to harm that person, they are using the threat of harm, harm itself is not imenent...Hostages are usually used for leverage in a negotiation. If I were a hostage I certainly would not want some cowboy shooting at the perpetrator with me in the approximate line of fire...and neither would you. Keep it real people. In the real world, police would not start with lethal force because it is almost impossible to go back to negotiation once the shooting starts. And neither should the cowboys among us take it upon themselves to decide that they should take a "make me a hero shot", rather than let the police do what they are trained to do...negotiate, and try to solve the issue without blood letting first. Concealed weapons are for self-defense and as such, thumb-cocking for the dubious need for a long shot is more of an exercise in self-delusion than a possible reality.

Pianoguy · August 31, 2012, 12:13 PM

In a hostage situation taking a shot may be dubious at best - what about where someone is already shooting anybody in range? If you were there and could shoot you would what to do what you could to make it count. SA would up your chances, especially with something like a shorter barrell revolver.

dahermit · August 31, 2012, 12:31 PM

Quote:

In a hostage situation taking a shot may be dubious at best - what about where someone is already shooting anybody in range? If you were there and could shoot you would what to do what you could to make it count. SA would up your chances, especially with something like a shorter barrell revolver.

1. How frequently does that happen compared to just a face to face short range situation? 2. What is more likely to happen, snagging a hammer spur in the top of your pocket, or someone already shooting at long distance? 3. If you would actually practice until you master double-action shooting, how much difference would it make to your shooting? 3. How often does it happen in real life where a nut-job shoots random people at long range compared to randomly shooting them at short range? Seems like with a few exceptions, mass shootings are usually short range, well within double action capabilities.
Double actions are designed to be double action. However, it is a common situation where people will buy a double action revolver and do most of their shooting single action and never attain any proficiency with double action shooting. If single actions were all that superior for defense, we would all be carrying Colt Model P's.

Whirlwind06 · August 31, 2012, 01:04 PM

I play some gun games with my revolvers. Every once in while we have the "hit the small gold star on the plate" and get 5 seconds taken off.

First time we had one those I went to SA thinking that would be ticket. Well for me it wasn't, I missed.

Couple months later we had another one and did my regular old DA pull (the one I practice all of the time) and got the gold star.

So I guess the point I'm trying to make is, unless you are practicing that SA revolver trigger pull. Don't count hitting anything with it.
YMMV

rebs · August 31, 2012, 01:10 PM

Personally when I draw my snubby from my pocket, my thumb automatically goes on the hammer. Thus no snag. I like the option of having a hammer to cock if I have a need or desire to do so.
Thats my preference and may or may not work for someone else.
Also with my snubby if I get a fail to fire all I have to do is pull the trigger again, with a semi auto I would have to clear the round which takes more time than simply pulling the trigger again.

dahermit · August 31, 2012, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Personally when I draw my snubby from my pocket, my thumb automatically goes on the hammer. Thus no snag. I like the option of having a hammer to cock if I have a need or desire to do so.
Thats my preference and may or may not work for someone else.

It (putting your thumb over the hammer), may not work for you if you have been jumped and beaten to the ground, stomped as you are fighting to get your pocket revolver out.

Grant D · August 31, 2012, 04:40 PM

You can please all of the people some of the time,and some of the people all of the time,but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

I guess that's why they make some with hammers, and some without

2damnold4this · August 31, 2012, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Double actions are designed to be double action. However, it is a common situation where people will buy a double action revolver and do most of their shooting single action and never attain any proficiency with double action shooting.

I see that a lot as well. Folks need to practice double action. It would be a good idea to practice with each hand individually as well as two handed.

Bel5191 · August 31, 2012, 06:45 PM

I've enjoyed the helpful replies. Another question, just get the one with internal lock or order the one without? I live in Pennsylvania so there's no restriction as far as I've found.

I personally am not worried that it will "lock up" or anything in a SD situation. Although it may be unsightly and unnecessary, I don't have a problem with it providing there's not a good reason not have it.

Obambulate · August 31, 2012, 09:35 PM

Look at the Bruce Willis movie 16 Blocks. They got the drop on bad guys twice with a Model 60. And they announced it by COCKING THE SA TRIGGER in the guy's ear.

It's like racking the slide on a shotgun. It's the last thing you do before taking that well-aimed shot. Maybe you won't even have to pull the trigger.

Rapidray · August 31, 2012, 10:17 PM

One of these 2 guys...lately the 649.

The extra weight is really not an issue as it is a lot lighter than my Colt 1911. Keeps recoil down for a faster follow up shot. Will not snag. Love the SA if I need it. Have taken it out to 100 yards and will keep them all in the black on the PPC targets the police use. Just do not ask for the group size.

bikerbill · August 31, 2012, 10:36 PM

agree with krazyhorse ... 637 with exposed hammer ... practice drawing for a few days and you'll never have an issue with the hammer ..

1goodshot · September 1, 2012, 06:26 AM

I carry a 442 and love the gun. I wish I would have got one with a stainless cylinder because it developed alittle rust from my sweat when I pocket carried it.

buck460XVR · September 1, 2012, 09:08 AM

Quote:

I prefer the 637. It gives you the option to fire both single and double action and it looks like a snub nose should. I've also found the fear of the hammer spur snagging on your pocket, while I suppose it is possible, to not be an issue at all.

I agree with Krezyhorse.........

dahermit · September 1, 2012, 10:06 AM

I

Quote:

've enjoyed the helpful replies. Another question, just get the one with internal lock or order the one without? I live in Pennsylvania so there's no restriction as far as I've found.

I personally am not worried that it will "lock up" or anything in a SD situation. Although it may be unsightly and unnecessary, I don't have a problem with it providing there's not a good reason not have it.

The internal lock seems like a good idea if you have kids. However, consider if you lock it at home to make it safe and you forget to unlock it when you put it in your pocket for carry.

dahermit · September 1, 2012, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Quote:
I prefer the 637. It gives you the option to fire both single and double action and it looks like a snub nose should. I've also found the fear of the hammer spur snagging on your pocket, while I suppose it is possible, to not be an issue at all.

Quote:

I agree with Krezyhorse.........

Have you tried drawing it from your pocket lying down, being kicked, lying on your gun side. Worried about a hammer snagging now, or about taking a long, single action shot? Yup, that spur on the hammer is a real good idea.

mrbatchelor · September 1, 2012, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bel5191

I realize SA would be better for target. But if I have to shoot someone in a defense situation, would cocking the hammer be considered as premeditation or something in the justice system? I just feel that having the simplicity of one option, squeezing the trigger is better.

I am not a lawyer, but I have been told by one that if he's my defense attorney after a gunfight he wants to present that my handgun is DAO. That means I'm not irresponsibly aiming a cocked gun that I discharge by accident. Therefore I must necessarily have been in fear for my life.

Again, I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on tv. But my hammer is bobbed.

August 29, 2012, 06:35 PM	#27
mr-mom Junior Member Join Date: March 4, 2011 Location: Minnesota Lake Country Posts: 5	+++ for the 637. Love the way it looks, carrys, and shoots. Has replaced my Glock 26 as a daily carry. IWB appendix. __________________ "Put your weapons and clothes where you can find them in the dark" Lazarus Long

August 30, 2012, 09:41 AM	#30
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	Spur hammer on a pocket gun is not logical. The shape of a DA revolver is designed specifically for DA shooting and is somewhat awkward for thumb cocking (compare the manipulation with a true SA revolver and see.) DA is best for self-defense in a close-up situation. If the threat is not close-up, then your motivation for shooting can be brought into question. Those who want to maintain the ability of thumb cocking the gun to shoot single action seem oblivious to that fact. In what possible scenario would you, 1. Have the need to thumb cock. 2. Thumb cocking would be better than double action? Consider the statement: "I have a spur on the hammer of my pocket gun and it never caught on anything." Begs two questions: Does that absolutely ensure that it never will? How often has that gun (with a spur), been drawn in an actual life-threatening situation? Spurless self-defense pocket-carry revolvers: S&W M36 Taurus M85 Last edited by dahermit; August 30, 2012 at 09:47 AM.

August 30, 2012, 09:52 AM	#31
RedBowTies88 Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2011 Location: 609 NJ Posts: 705	What if the BG grabbed a hostage and precision shooting was needed? What is you were undisclosed to the BG and wanted to have the best change for good shot placement on the intaial shot? Sure most of the time DA would have to be used exclusively...but there are cases where SA would be useful. Plus as I said.. I've never had my model 37 snag on my pocket (usung a posket holster greatly reduces the chance of a snag IMHO) with hundreds of draw and fire drills. Not even once __________________ "...with liberty and justice for all." (Must be 21. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states.)

August 31, 2012, 10:17 PM	#44
Rapidray Member Join Date: April 3, 2012 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 15	This is easy... One of these 2 guys...lately the 649. The extra weight is really not an issue as it is a lot lighter than my Colt 1911. Keeps recoil down for a faster follow up shot. Will not snag. Love the SA if I need it. Have taken it out to 100 yards and will keep them all in the black on the PPC targets the police use. Just do not ask for the group size.

August 31, 2012, 10:36 PM	#45
bikerbill Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2007 Location: Lago Vista TX Posts: 2,425	agree with krazyhorse ... 637 with exposed hammer ... practice drawing for a few days and you'll never have an issue with the hammer .. __________________ "The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants." Albert Camus

August 29, 2012, 11:15 AM	#26
magmax Member Join Date: July 17, 2012 Posts: 51	Hard to go wrong with a Smith & Wesson J frame. I have been carrying the AirLite Ti 332 for the past 12 years or so. Very simple, gun with trigger. David

August 29, 2012, 07:55 PM	#28
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,328	I like my 640. I don't know an exposed hammer to be a bad thing, but I do know a concealed hammer to be a good thing.

August 30, 2012, 12:35 AM	#29
claimbuster Member Join Date: April 5, 2005 Location: Rowlett, TX Posts: 40	Have, and carry a M640 & M640-3. The 640-3 in 357 used to be my EDC for several years. Also have a 3" M60 with adjustable sights that is a nice trail gun. Mrs. CB has a M640 and a M36 3". She learned to shoot handgun with the M36.

August 31, 2012, 12:13 PM	#35
Pianoguy Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2011 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 235	In a hostage situation taking a shot may be dubious at best - what about where someone is already shooting anybody in range? If you were there and could shoot you would what to do what you could to make it count. SA would up your chances, especially with something like a shorter barrell revolver.

August 31, 2012, 01:04 PM	#37
Whirlwind06 Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2006 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 998	I play some gun games with my revolvers. Every once in while we have the "hit the small gold star on the plate" and get 5 seconds taken off. First time we had one those I went to SA thinking that would be ticket. Well for me it wasn't, I missed. Couple months later we had another one and did my regular old DA pull (the one I practice all of the time) and got the gold star. So I guess the point I'm trying to make is, unless you are practicing that SA revolver trigger pull. Don't count hitting anything with it. YMMV

August 31, 2012, 01:10 PM	#38
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	Personally when I draw my snubby from my pocket, my thumb automatically goes on the hammer. Thus no snag. I like the option of having a hammer to cock if I have a need or desire to do so. Thats my preference and may or may not work for someone else. Also with my snubby if I get a fail to fire all I have to do is pull the trigger again, with a semi auto I would have to clear the round which takes more time than simply pulling the trigger again.

August 31, 2012, 04:40 PM	#40
Grant D Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2011 Location: Brazos County, Texas Posts: 1,038	You can please all of the people some of the time,and some of the people all of the time,but you can't please all of the people all of the time. I guess that's why they make some with hammers, and some without

August 31, 2012, 06:45 PM	#42
Bel5191 Junior Member Join Date: December 28, 2011 Posts: 13	I've enjoyed the helpful replies. Another question, just get the one with internal lock or order the one without? I live in Pennsylvania so there's no restriction as far as I've found. I personally am not worried that it will "lock up" or anything in a SD situation. Although it may be unsightly and unnecessary, I don't have a problem with it providing there's not a good reason not have it.

August 31, 2012, 09:35 PM	#43
Obambulate Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2011 Posts: 582	Look at the Bruce Willis movie 16 Blocks. They got the drop on bad guys twice with a Model 60. And they announced it by COCKING THE SA TRIGGER in the guy's ear. It's like racking the slide on a shotgun. It's the last thing you do before taking that well-aimed shot. Maybe you won't even have to pull the trigger.

September 1, 2012, 06:26 AM	#46
1goodshot Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2001 Location: chandler,az Posts: 929	I carry a 442 and love the gun. I wish I would have got one with a stainless cylinder because it developed alittle rust from my sweat when I pocket carried it.