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Old November 1, 2015, 02:49 PM   #1
Big man546
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If you find the new m855a1 buy it (not selling)

I had some of the m855a1 i got by mistake sold some and just got back from shooting the rest! All i can say if you can find it buy it! The stuff is ammazing there is a reason why the new tests are classified. They do not want us to know hiw good it is. This stuff out of a 1in9 inch twist barrel is so accurate i was shooting 1 hole at 220 yards. No over pressure signs on primers brass looked perfect. As far as penitration it out did all other with a steel penetrator except 308 ap. it punched through 3/8 ar 500 at 100 yards same with 5/8 plate steel. For being portrade as nothing more than ball ammo that is amazing! Again i dont have any more but will be looking all i can say if you can find buy!!!! Has any body else had this kind experience with this round? NO I DO NOT HAVE ANY FOR SALE I SOLD AND SHOT ALL I HAD!!!!!
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Old November 1, 2015, 03:06 PM   #2
dakota.potts
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Would I be wrong to assume you don't have any pictures or video of your testing? Or even of the rounds that you ended up with?
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Old November 1, 2015, 03:26 PM   #3
Big man546
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No was not planning on shooting offered for sale and everybody said it was not worth it so i shot it to see what was what. I did open one to check out what it was.
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Old November 1, 2015, 03:30 PM   #4
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sorry technology challenged mechanically i can fix or make anything but dont really do much with computers prefer getting hands dirty
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Old November 2, 2015, 10:33 AM   #5
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It will eventually be good cheap plinking ammo. Nothing wrong with that.

For hunting purposes or self defense, it has some issues. I can't wait to see how the "low penetration" crowd remarks on it.

Since the ATF is using any criteria to impose a ban on certain kinds of AR ammunition, touting it's "armor piercing" capability isn't a good thing. No doubt they are more than aware of it's classification and could very well be getting a memo to try to ban it. They did with it M855 and that took a lot of effort to keep from happening. They simply tabled it for "future consideration."

I have no doubts this will be rolled up right along with it. The ATF classifications are arbitrarily vague - which is the subject of a lawsuit.

Glad someone likes it, but it's not generally available and telling one and all to buy it up seems a bit precocious. It's just another choice for future use on paper targets.
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Old November 2, 2015, 10:48 AM   #6
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My take on it is this.

The M855 round has been shown to have some issues as a anti-personal round. Poor terminal ballistics, not outstanding accuracy and lack luster penetration through barriers. Kinda the worst of all things desired.

The new M855a1 improves on most of the shortcomings of the M855. Better wounding, better groups downrange and increased penetration. Seems like a step forward.

Is it the end all, be all of 556 ammo....no. There are still a multitude of ammo offerings that will shoot tighter and wound better out of a AR/M4. Those choices are readily available to the civilian shooter. Just walk into one of the big box stores and plunk down your cash.

The U.S. Military is somewhat hamstrung by treaty agreements, as to the ammo we field. The M855a1 seems like a reasonable round for general issue.
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Old November 2, 2015, 04:22 PM   #7
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The problem is that we cannot have ammo intentionally designed to expand or yaw.
The 5.56 as a side effect of it's velocity and small size would fragment if cannalured and started to yaw after impact. It can be quite damaging due to velocity alone not counting any other factors.

But it's light weight bullet apparently has some issues getting through barriers (I've never tested this so I'm only regurgitating) if it's labeled as armor piercing, then we will be banned from owning it I suspect. Because it can be used in handguns. I'm not sure how this two piece design is catergirized, but it seems to make it more of a penetrator than it's predecessor, which the ATF don't like too much.
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Old November 2, 2015, 05:13 PM   #8
carguychris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyrick
The problem is that we cannot have ammo intentionally designed to expand or yaw.
This statement is partially incorrect.

Here is what the Hague Declaration of 1899—the treaty prohibiting the use of expanding bullets—actually says:
Quote:
The Contracting Parties agree to abstain from the use of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core or is pierced with incisions.
It clearly bans expanding bullets, but it says nothing about bullets designed to yaw, and numerous major combatants have been using such bullets for decades. This is the reason why military rifle bullets frequently have a boat-tail profile with a cutout in the rear of the bullet – this concentrates the mass in the center of the bullet and makes it yaw more readily.

As a relevant aside, I've shot many rounds of 1950s Bulgarian-contract 7.62x54R ammo through water jugs with a Mosin-Nagant, and the bullets typically leave the first jug sideways.
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Old November 2, 2015, 06:05 PM   #9
rickyrick
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I mistyped during my break, I stated yaw when I intended tumbling.

Tumbling bullets are illegal? Am I correct
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Old November 3, 2015, 12:18 PM   #10
carguychris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyrick
I stated yaw when I intended tumbling.

Tumbling bullets are illegal? Am I correct
They are basically the same thing, although most authorities consider the term "tumbling" to be technically incorrect or at least oversimplified.

The bullet's motion after impact generally isn't a two-dimensional flipping motion perpendicular to it path of impact, so it's not a "tumble" in the most literal sense, and the bullet usually doesn't overturn end-to-end more than a couple of times.
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Old November 3, 2015, 03:20 PM   #11
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http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241051

I smell more trolling....
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Old November 3, 2015, 03:40 PM   #12
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So, if the tests are classified, what are you doing posting this data on the internet for any commie rat to see?
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Old November 3, 2015, 06:16 PM   #13
Big man546
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Again i dont have any more just relaying what i found out! I dont have any way to get any more! Can some one expain what is trolling? I have never posted before and when i found something interesting people call it trolling. I dont understand why.
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Old November 3, 2015, 10:22 PM   #14
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Trolling is the posting of statements online in order to 'pick a fight' or reaction from others. It's generally absent from this forum.

You are innocent of trolling, seems to me.
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Old November 4, 2015, 10:01 AM   #15
Big man546
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Thank interesting since i have started trying to post i have had nothing but rude people make comments! Not so much on this one but others especially the ak site i did nothing or said anything negative about anyone or thing. Thank you for explaining to me. I dont understand why someone would go online to try to start arguments i would think people have better things to do.
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Old November 4, 2015, 10:52 AM   #16
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Welcome to the internet. It IS the main area where people DO go to argue. It's faceless and those with an agenda can post to their heart's content on all that they see as wrong in the world - without having to see the actual facial expressions of others. It's all limited to the written word - which is a field for propaganda at any time.

What we often discuss are the details of fact, which are often filtered by our own understanding and experience. Me - veteran who served - and I know that the Geneva/Hague doesn't stop much in the way of bullet design, nor does it actually need to.

While the language is often quoted, the actual application is one the US voluntarily abides by. We didn't sign anything binding and there is no legal remedy if we were to start shooting full lead hollow nose projectiles. The reality is that most of the targets we do shoot at are behind something - because even the most primitive tactical education in the worst trained force on earth knows to find cover when the bullets fly. Cover = hard barrier, to stop bullets. We have to penetrate hard barriers, whether expedient, or worn as equipment, or used as armor to protect the enemy. A hollow point expanding bullet would be flattened on impact and have very little penetration. Major fail in combat. That's why we stick to FMJ and use penetrator tips for 5.56.

We are NOT prohibited from using open tip ammo - what we do is use only that ammo not specifically designed for expansion. That means open tip ammo that is designed for aerodynamic purposes IS legal under the Laws of Land Warfare, it that was approved back in the early 1980's. The design intent - of Sierra MatchKing bullets, to be precise - was to form them entirely the opposite of previous ones, by punching a gilding metal jacket around the core base first, leaving a light jacketed nose empty for ballistic and production purposes. They have been Olympic grade accurate since the 1950's and are the first choice when shooting long ranges. Being accurate also reduces the likelihood of an innocent bystander being hit. They are our first choice of use in long range precision and CQB ammo where penetration is a known factor and usually not an issue.

The small highly trained shooters in the American Armed Forces get OTM, the general combat units in bulk get FMJ or penetrating ammo. As long as we adhere voluntarily to the Accords we won't see bullets with formed jacket petals and a hard heat resistant polymer tip to aid in expansion. For most intents and purposes in the military, we don't NEED them, either.

That's what is fun about the internet - so many in America have no idea of what is going on now as there is only one in one hundred who have served, unlike when I was growing up in the 1960s when one in ten was a veteran and likely to have been in WWII, Korea, or Vietnam. The public is pretty much completely out of touch on military matters and ammo is certainly one of them. The problem is that one's mans misinformation is another's trolling - so we try to keep an polite tone even when we are handed crow over it. It's the youngsters unsure of their place in society who strive to prove who's the more socially ranked. And the internet is exactly where some go to find their place, unfortunately.

They won't join the Armed Forces to discover what they don't know or can't really do, which leaves them with some interesting notions.

Geneva, not. Hague, not hardly, Just voluntarily. OTM, issued for decades. Penetrator ammo - standard issue. Not "armor" piercing but the ATF is politically controlled and that is where they are tasked to be a problem. They were never originally an enforcement organization - just a tax collector - and the reason for the NFA was an anti gun measure we've long needed to abolish.
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Old November 4, 2015, 02:35 PM   #17
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I like when the media touts "military grade" ammunition as the most powerful scary stuff. When most of the ammo designed for hunting is far more deadly in that account.

Most anyone using standard military ammo for hunting would get severely chastised among TFLers.

I don't feel the OP is trolling. On that note, some gun forum members can be jerks at times.... Just goes with the territory.

Just continue to discuss whatever you wish, I end up agreeing with most here on at least one topic. I learn more here than anywhere else, and this is the best forum around.
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Old August 26, 2021, 04:40 PM   #18
shotlesson1
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I don’t think it is illegal. I was placing an order for one of my matches and they accidentally sent me 20k rounds of it. I told them about it and they let me keep it and I just ordered more m193 fmj after that. So I have about 20,000 rounds of m855a1.
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