The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Semi-automatics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 20, 2018, 07:24 PM   #26
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,715
Finally got a day where the wind wasn't blowing so bad--only 10 to 15 mph today. Went out and did my first ladder of test cartridges--162 eld x's driven by H4350--one of the better powders. Originally I had only loaded 3 cartridges for each charge weight--but then added a 4th to each group after I got some new winchester cases and determined that I could go longer with the bullet seating--so in each group 3 cartridges were 2.78 and 1 was 2.804. Might have made a difference in the grouping--though I was not shooting especially well today, I wasn't calling the shots but I could tell when I budged and made a bad one. I didn't call--I cursed.

Since I'm still breaking the barrel in, it also is a bit tedious to stop every few shots to break down and clean the bore out. The rifle I believe can shoot way ahead of how I'm shooting--at least today.

4350 I've heard is one of the top go-to powders for the 284 win--it does seem to do well. Here are a couple of the better groups (interesting how they are spaced almost identically).



Attached Images
File Type: jpg 162 eldx 284win 46.4 H4350.jpg (83.8 KB, 256 views)
File Type: jpg 162 eldx 284win 48.2 H4350.jpg (68.7 KB, 257 views)
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!

Last edited by stagpanther; March 20, 2018 at 07:31 PM.
stagpanther is offline  
Old March 22, 2018, 06:32 PM   #27
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,715
Fresh batch of 284 win--starting to adjust case mouth tension to see if that makes any difference. New Winchester brass and hornady 162 eld x driven H4350. Going to have to wait for the latest snowstorm to clear before I can get out again.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20180322_191558.jpg (134.8 KB, 240 views)
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!
stagpanther is offline  
Old March 23, 2018, 05:35 PM   #28
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,715
Went out today to attempt to shoot those handsome cartridges above--had a bit of trouble getting through the snow but managed to set up in a level spot 111 yds out. Discovered that I had forgotten my gloves--yup the man with a million excuses--but tried to shoot anyway. I only made it half way through before I bagged it, I just wasn't able to shoot well enough, even though I got a couple of good groups out of the first charge weights. I can tell how good this gun is by how readily it let's me know how bad I'm shooting!

These are two of the same low-end charges I tried the other day, they both featured a couple of shots that almost went through the same hole. I'm still stopping between groups to clean the bore--almost done with barrel break-in.




Attached Images
File Type: jpg 284 win 162 eldx 46.4 H4350.jpg (170.1 KB, 223 views)
File Type: jpg 284 win 162 eldx 46.6 H4350.jpg (169.9 KB, 215 views)
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!
stagpanther is offline  
Old March 24, 2018, 06:18 AM   #29
brasscollector
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2015
Posts: 526
Not much to add but I am wondering what kind of velocity you're getting from those 162s. What length is the barrel?
__________________
He may look dumb, but that's just a disguise.
-Charlie Daniels
brasscollector is offline  
Old March 24, 2018, 06:38 AM   #30
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,715
The lower-end loads above are in the 2500 fps range out of the 22" barrel. I'm going to get through breaking the barrel in before I start running warmer top-end loads. I still haven't found a reference factory load to baseline a pressure gage on--I guess I'll have to make my own and send it off for testing.

post edit: My velocities seem to be consistently under what QL and reload manual say I should be getting by 75 fps +/- --I'm attributing that to the extra friction/start pressure by the crimped bullet--also the winchester brass has some kind of weird fluting/reamer chatter in the inside of the neck which is uneven in tension---I hope after a few firings I'll get more consistency out of the brass.
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!

Last edited by stagpanther; March 25, 2018 at 12:34 PM.
stagpanther is offline  
Old March 26, 2018, 05:57 AM   #31
Road_Clam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 21, 2013
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,694
What configuration is the bolt ? Are you able to run a standard 7.62 AR10 bolt configuration ?
__________________
"To be old an wise you must have been young and stupid"
Road_Clam is offline  
Old March 26, 2018, 06:18 AM   #32
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,715
Quote:
What configuration is the bolt ? Are you able to run a standard 7.62 AR10 bolt configuration ?
Yes--standard 308 bolt configuration--though this one is a bit beefier than your standard bolt. The ejector was a tad over-powered for my tastes; most are these days, so I tuned it down a bit. I literally have not had one single failure of any kind (other than me not being able to reach maximum efficiency in shooting the thing). : )
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!
stagpanther is offline  
Old May 28, 2018, 10:38 AM   #33
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,715
While I'm waiting on parts for other projects to come in--thought I'd spend a little time with my 284 win project which has been side-lined for a while. Biggest problem is that most bullet's ogives go into the neck--so I needed a way to get a longer seating.

The DPMS steel mag was up to the task of being cut out--I'll test with live fire soon. This enables me to get a COL to 2.912. The chamber allows seating way beyond that from what I've been able to measure--but this is still a major improvement.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg 284-mag.jpg (26.5 KB, 138 views)
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!
stagpanther is offline  
Old May 28, 2018, 11:43 AM   #34
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,715
Extra length definitely makes a difference--these 162 ELDX hunter's base of ogive now clear with room to spare. Very windy out--but what the hey--back in a bit.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0106.JPG (214.2 KB, 133 views)
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!
stagpanther is offline  
Old May 28, 2018, 12:38 PM   #35
flashhole
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2005
Location: Owego, NY
Posts: 2,000
The COL looks different on all of them.
__________________
,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals.

Are you ready for civil war?
flashhole is offline  
Old May 28, 2018, 03:39 PM   #36
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,715
Quote:
The COL looks different on all of them.
Optical conclusion--the plastic bullet tray is warped and undersized--so they space unevenly in it.
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!
stagpanther is offline  
Old May 28, 2018, 03:55 PM   #37
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,715
Unfortunately the lengthened cartridge created a new problem while being cycled under live fire--the bullet meplat was smacking into and glancing off the chamber face on feed by the bolt--so that obviously had an effect on the cycling and accuracy since the tips were being crushed and deformed. I didn't figure this out until I got to the last charge weights of 47 grs, whereupon I switched to single-feeding by hand. Results were OK--but I;ll have to jigger the mag some more to get a (hopefully) damage-free feed. Try shortening the COL as well (though I hate giving up that space).

Attached Images
File Type: jpg 47 H4350 284 win 162 ELDX.jpg (133.9 KB, 125 views)
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!

Last edited by stagpanther; May 28, 2018 at 04:07 PM.
stagpanther is offline  
Old May 28, 2018, 06:57 PM   #38
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 6,310
Have you considered a shorted case neck length? This is what they do with pointed 45-70 loads.
Nathan is offline  
Old May 28, 2018, 07:41 PM   #39
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,715
Quote:
Have you considered a shorted case neck length? This is what they do with pointed 45-70 loads.
I have thought about that--but was concerned about possible pitting/erosion in the case mouth area as a possible result. I know I can lick this--I've experienced similar issues with other cartridges before.
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!
stagpanther is offline  
Old May 29, 2018, 02:31 PM   #40
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,715
Did a little work on the feed lips and backed the COL off a bit to 2.905--still more than enough room to keep the base of ogives of all my bullets out of the case neck. Mission accomplished, shot a ladder of 140 accubonds without a hitch today....well, almost without a hitch--there is still a slight bit of abrasion damage being done to the bullet jackets by the extension lugs on the way in to the chamber. I'm not wild about stoning down extension lugs--used to do it a lot but I suspect that might possibly contribute to early onset of headspace issues.

My results were once again inconclusive--I was either pulling my shots--as evidenced by the horizontal string below--or I would get a few really close together but choked on one shot. I figure the bullet damage might be accounting for about .1 MOA inaccuracy--my poor technique maybe another .4 MOA or so. I'll need to retest.



Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0110.JPG (113.7 KB, 115 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0109.JPG (130.8 KB, 105 views)
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!
stagpanther is offline  
Old May 29, 2018, 06:55 PM   #41
44caliberkid
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 15, 2017
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,090
Question for Stag. What made you favor the 284 over a 7mm-08?
44caliberkid is offline  
Old May 29, 2018, 07:06 PM   #42
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,715
Quote:
Question for Stag. What made you favor the 284 over a 7mm-08?
Different.

Was also intrigued by the fact that it is the parent of the 6.5 284 norma. You often read the differences between cartridges are simply in terms of velocity--which there isn't much of a difference between the 7-08 and 284 win. But there might be other subtle differences--maybe I'll find them out.
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!
stagpanther is offline  
Old May 29, 2018, 08:02 PM   #43
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,753
Quote:
What's the parent case for the .284 Winchester?
the .284 Winchester

__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old May 29, 2018, 08:28 PM   #44
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,715
New Winchester brass is poorly finished--but once-fired is pretty nice. Only game in town so I guess I can't complain.

PS--I had room to spare for more powder at 2.905--but using even the max charge recommended for a COL of 2.8 I was getting over 2900 fps out of my 22" McGowen barrel.
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!

Last edited by stagpanther; May 29, 2018 at 08:50 PM.
stagpanther is offline  
Old May 29, 2018, 11:08 PM   #45
ed308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 5, 2016
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 1,147
How's that NF glass working out?
ed308 is offline  
Old May 30, 2018, 06:41 AM   #46
stagpanther
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2014
Posts: 11,715
Quote:
How's that NF glass working out?
I bought the 5 x 20 SHV scope--one of their newer "budget" ones. I like it--but do I think it's worth $1300? Hmmm, don't know about that. When shooting in bright sunlight the glass tends to shimmer a bit (even after adjusting for parallax)--I don't know if that's simply a limitation of 20x power close in at 100 yds. It's also outsourced to production offshore--one of the main reasons I decided to buy Nightforce is that they tout American made--wasn't too happy when I received it and discovered this particular one isn't. Why they put a turret cap on the windage knob and not leave it open for adjustment like the elevation one is a mystery to me--and a minor annoyance. If I were considering night force I would advise paying the few hundred extra dollars and get the "true blue" American scopes that they deservedly built their reputation on. I know my next long range scope will likely be Nikon's new black scope (wouldn't surprise me if it's made in the same factory as nightforce's shv scopes).
__________________
"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill
I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!
stagpanther is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.10389 seconds with 11 queries