loading cannelure question

ReloadKy · March 4, 2018, 05:09 PM

I have hornady sst in 140 grain for my 270. When loading my minimum OAL is 3.280 inches. When I seat the bullet to get an OAL OF 3.280 the cannelure of the bullet is not on the rim of the case and thus not really serving its purpose for a crimping groove. It is getting very close just not on the mouth of the case. I have shot a few groups like this and gotten just over an inch. I obviously want better. Any suggestions?

NoSecondBest · March 4, 2018, 05:24 PM

Don't get all hung up on OAL. It mostly has to do with feeding through the magazine. Too long and it won't feed....or even fit. If it's pretty close, just seat the bullet in the cannelure and shoot it. OAL is a guide, not gospel.

jmr40 · March 4, 2018, 06:29 PM

I load my ammo just as long as possible and still get it to fit the magazine. If it feeds into the chamber without hitting the lands I head to the range with a few loads. If accuracy meets my standards then I run with it. If not I experiment, but rarely have to mess with seating depth. If I do, I can always seat them a little deeper, even rounds I've already loaded. That way I only have to experiment in one direction.

I ignore the cannelure. Most of the bullets I load do not have them anyway. I have no idea what my OAL is.

Yosemite Steve · March 4, 2018, 07:01 PM

You don't need the cannelure for your 270. You can use it if you like and roll crimp into it but I and many others have seen no benefit. Go with the suggest OAL... or find your lands and seat .020" off the lands. It was suggested to me and .020" off the lands shoots pretty good out of my gun. I get better groups closer to the lands but then my pressure starts to get too high. SST's are good accurate bullets! If you try to tweak seating depth, do it after you have found a good powder load for your gun and have read up on it.

std7mag · March 5, 2018, 05:12 AM

Don't worry about the cannelure.
Heck i wouldn't worry about crimping. Unless it's a semi auto, pump, or lever action.

cptjack · March 5, 2018, 09:13 AM

try jack o'conner's load with 130 gr. 1/2 or less

**Unclenick** · March 5, 2018, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReloadKY

When loading my minimum OAL is 3.280 inches.

Hornady recommends 3.210" COL with that bullet in the most recent Hornady manual (#10 or X, as they label it). SAAMI has the .270 Winchester cartridge minimum COL at 3.065" and maximum at 3.340" for magazine fit and feed reliability. So the question is, how did you arrive at 3.280" as a minimum? It seems to be the stumbling block and is not a standard of any kind.

RC20 · March 5, 2018, 11:45 AM

And if you are getting 1 inch, for hunting purposes that is as good as you need (or can use)

I never did find a bench rest set up for me when I took a shot (dang state).

It was always some kind of braced shot and a pretty fast one. AT 100 yards you would be lucky to hit within 2 inches, not to mention if you are 2 inches high at 100 (fairly standard) you would have to Kentucky windage it down at that range to be perfect B eye.

I was not aiming for a bullseye, I was aiming for a mid section.

Best my hunting gun did was 1.5 inches.

mikld · March 5, 2018, 11:48 AM

Go with the OAL that the bullet manufacturer suggests and disregard the cannalure's location...

T. O'Heir · March 5, 2018, 12:55 PM

Forget the cannelure altogether. Just like you can ignore the 3.280" OAL(that is not a minimum length) given by Hodgdon, et al and load to the SAAMI max of 3.340". Pointy part to flat part with no ogives involved.
Forget the off the lands stuff too. It's unnecessary and your rifle may or may not like 20 thou off the lands.

**Unclenick** · March 5, 2018, 03:19 PM

T. O'Heir,

Ah! I didn't catch that the COL came from Hodgdon. OK. That makes sense because it is a different brand of bullet, so, of course, the length isn't identical and the cannelure is not in the same place. Apples and oranges.

mikld,

If he uses the Hornady suggested length, the cannelure will be in the right location anyway.

ReloadKY,

All that Hodgdon info is for the test bullet listed. When you change that or any other component, you go back to the bottom load and work back up, watching for pressure signs, but use the manufacturer-suggested COL until you get comfortable enough with reloading to experiment more. One reason for using the manufacturer's length is will ensure the particular ogive radius they used (the nose side shape) doesn't jam into the lands of a standard SAAMI chamber, thereby raising pressure.

gw44 · March 5, 2018, 06:44 PM

I use the cannelure ring I crimp all my bullets, I set the bullet to the ring, it has always worked for me !!!

sparkyv · March 5, 2018, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmr40

I load my ammo just as long as possible and still get it to fit the magazine.

I ignore the cannelure. .

That's what I do, but I measure the headspace first and seat to about 0.010" deeper so as not to impinge onto the lands.

ReloadKy · March 5, 2018, 07:47 PM

Thanks for all the responses. It seems as if the consensus is that I really do not need to pay that much attention to the cannelure. Just make a round that is safe, will fit in the magazine and shoot!!

NWPilgrim · March 5, 2018, 08:48 PM

Yes, correct. The cannelure is for semi-auto and such where the bullet may get slammed into the feed ramp and crimping can prevent bullet set back. There should be significant neck tension in all bottleneck cartridge loads such that even then a cannelure and crimping often is not necessary. I only crimp on my bulk practice 55 gr FMJ loads in .223 and 150gr FMJ in .30-06. Target bullets I do not crimp and they run fine in the Garand and AR15.

Bolt actions like your .270 should never need crimping. Maybe very heavy bullets and magnums like .458WM need crimping, I don't know, but the inertia and recoil could require it.

BTW, UncleNick has great advice on reloading and you will benefit from what he recommends any time. I doubt I have ever disagreed with anything he has said. and if I did then I just have not yet learned that I am wrong.

Yosemite Steve · March 5, 2018, 10:46 PM

Quote:

I have no idea what my OAL is.

What the....?

Quote:

That's what I do, but I measure the headspace first and seat to about 0.010" deeper so as not to impinge onto the lands.

I think what you mean to say is that you measure your lands distance first. Headspace really has nothing to do with bullet seating depth. Headspace is how much play the case has in the chamber between the bolt face and the shoulder/datum.

Quote:

Forget the off the lands stuff too. It's unnecessary and your rifle may or may not like 20 thou off the lands.

Don't forget it. Maybe just don't go there quite yet. There is much to be said about seating depth adjustments. Some don't like to do it and some get great results from it. Start with manufacturers' recommendations and then only tweak one thing at a time if you want to experiment.

And I concur the Unclenick is #1 helper out there!

ReloadKy · March 6, 2018, 09:13 PM

I’ll make sure to read Unclenick’s posts with intentions of learning all I can.

Wendyj · March 13, 2018, 09:24 AM

I tried some Barnes bullets in my 7-08 and at the crimp ring accuracy was horrible. I can see a crimp ring and half another one and they punch dime holes all day. I don't crimp magazine fed bullets in a bolt action. Longer oal works for me but I have to try different oal lengths because I want all the accuracy I can get. Take accuracy over speed any day.

TailGator · March 14, 2018, 08:26 PM

Quote:

UncleNick has great advice on reloading and you will benefit from what he recommends any time. I doubt I have ever disagreed with anything he has said. and if I did then I just have not yet learned that I am wrong.

Heh, heh, that's what I feel like reading his posts, too. UncleNick, if you write a book I'll buy it, bro.

March 4, 2018, 06:29 PM	#3
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,809	I load my ammo just as long as possible and still get it to fit the magazine. If it feeds into the chamber without hitting the lands I head to the range with a few loads. If accuracy meets my standards then I run with it. If not I experiment, but rarely have to mess with seating depth. If I do, I can always seat them a little deeper, even rounds I've already loaded. That way I only have to experiment in one direction. I ignore the cannelure. Most of the bullets I load do not have them anyway. I have no idea what my OAL is. __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

March 5, 2018, 11:45 AM	#8
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	And if you are getting 1 inch, for hunting purposes that is as good as you need (or can use) I never did find a bench rest set up for me when I took a shot (dang state). It was always some kind of braced shot and a pretty fast one. AT 100 yards you would be lucky to hit within 2 inches, not to mention if you are 2 inches high at 100 (fairly standard) you would have to Kentucky windage it down at that range to be perfect B eye. I was not aiming for a bullseye, I was aiming for a mid section. Best my hunting gun did was 1.5 inches. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

March 5, 2018, 11:48 AM	#9
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	Go with the OAL that the bullet manufacturer suggests and disregard the cannalure's location... __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

March 5, 2018, 03:19 PM	#11
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	T. O'Heir, Ah! I didn't catch that the COL came from Hodgdon. OK. That makes sense because it is a different brand of bullet, so, of course, the length isn't identical and the cannelure is not in the same place. Apples and oranges. mikld, If he uses the Hornady suggested length, the cannelure will be in the right location anyway. ReloadKY, All that Hodgdon info is for the test bullet listed. When you change that or any other component, you go back to the bottom load and work back up, watching for pressure signs, but use the manufacturer-suggested COL until you get comfortable enough with reloading to experiment more. One reason for using the manufacturer's length is will ensure the particular ogive radius they used (the nose side shape) doesn't jam into the lands of a standard SAAMI chamber, thereby raising pressure. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

March 5, 2018, 08:48 PM	#15
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	Yes, correct. The cannelure is for semi-auto and such where the bullet may get slammed into the feed ramp and crimping can prevent bullet set back. There should be significant neck tension in all bottleneck cartridge loads such that even then a cannelure and crimping often is not necessary. I only crimp on my bulk practice 55 gr FMJ loads in .223 and 150gr FMJ in .30-06. Target bullets I do not crimp and they run fine in the Garand and AR15. Bolt actions like your .270 should never need crimping. Maybe very heavy bullets and magnums like .458WM need crimping, I don't know, but the inertia and recoil could require it. BTW, UncleNick has great advice on reloading and you will benefit from what he recommends any time. I doubt I have ever disagreed with anything he has said. and if I did then I just have not yet learned that I am wrong. __________________ "The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone. ... The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition." - James Madison

March 4, 2018, 05:09 PM	#1
ReloadKy Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2018 Posts: 191	loading cannelure question I have hornady sst in 140 grain for my 270. When loading my minimum OAL is 3.280 inches. When I seat the bullet to get an OAL OF 3.280 the cannelure of the bullet is not on the rim of the case and thus not really serving its purpose for a crimping groove. It is getting very close just not on the mouth of the case. I have shot a few groups like this and gotten just over an inch. I obviously want better. Any suggestions?

March 4, 2018, 05:24 PM	#2
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	Don't get all hung up on OAL. It mostly has to do with feeding through the magazine. Too long and it won't feed....or even fit. If it's pretty close, just seat the bullet in the cannelure and shoot it. OAL is a guide, not gospel.

March 4, 2018, 07:01 PM	#4
Yosemite Steve Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2017 Posts: 460	You don't need the cannelure for your 270. You can use it if you like and roll crimp into it but I and many others have seen no benefit. Go with the suggest OAL... or find your lands and seat .020" off the lands. It was suggested to me and .020" off the lands shoots pretty good out of my gun. I get better groups closer to the lands but then my pressure starts to get too high. SST's are good accurate bullets! If you try to tweak seating depth, do it after you have found a good powder load for your gun and have read up on it.

March 5, 2018, 05:12 AM	#5
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	Don't worry about the cannelure. Heck i wouldn't worry about crimping. Unless it's a semi auto, pump, or lever action.

March 5, 2018, 09:13 AM	#6
cptjack Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2014 Posts: 314	try jack o'conner's load with 130 gr. 1/2 or less

March 5, 2018, 12:55 PM	#10
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Forget the cannelure altogether. Just like you can ignore the 3.280" OAL(that is not a minimum length) given by Hodgdon, et al and load to the SAAMI max of 3.340". Pointy part to flat part with no ogives involved. Forget the off the lands stuff too. It's unnecessary and your rifle may or may not like 20 thou off the lands. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

March 5, 2018, 06:44 PM	#12
gw44 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2015 Location: Michigan Posts: 311	I use the cannelure ring I crimp all my bullets, I set the bullet to the ring, it has always worked for me !!!

March 5, 2018, 07:47 PM	#14
ReloadKy Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2018 Posts: 191	Thanks for all the responses. It seems as if the consensus is that I really do not need to pay that much attention to the cannelure. Just make a round that is safe, will fit in the magazine and shoot!!

March 6, 2018, 09:13 PM	#17
ReloadKy Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2018 Posts: 191	I’ll make sure to read Unclenick’s posts with intentions of learning all I can.

March 13, 2018, 09:24 AM	#18
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	I tried some Barnes bullets in my 7-08 and at the crimp ring accuracy was horrible. I can see a crimp ring and half another one and they punch dime holes all day. I don't crimp magazine fed bullets in a bolt action. Longer oal works for me but I have to try different oal lengths because I want all the accuracy I can get. Take accuracy over speed any day. __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!