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View Poll Results: With trigger mods becoming more prominent, are you comfortable carrying with a modified trigger? | |||
Yes, I am comfortable carrying a modified trigger, today. | 52 | 58.43% | |
No, I am not comfortable carrying a modified trigger, today. | 37 | 41.57% | |
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll |
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April 5, 2017, 09:37 AM | #126 | |
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Join Date: June 8, 2008
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It would, however, have underscored the weapon issue in the minds of he jurors, and the defense may not have wanted to do that. |
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April 5, 2017, 09:42 AM | #127 | |
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Join Date: March 25, 2017
Posts: 115
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Quote:
The prosecution already pointed out the 10mm caliber and the JHPs, and placed into evidence lies about them that were potentially very damaging to Fish's claim of self-defense. Fish chose to follow the route suggested by your advice; he left those lies unchallenged. We know where that got him. Some will choose to repeat that mistake if (G-d forbid) they are ever in a similar situation. I'll choose to learn from his mistake. I can't tell you you're wrong to do what you prefer; everyone should choose what they feel is best. You also may have the facts wrong. The typical commercial 10mm JHP round is loaded to FBI specs, significantly downloaded from "max" 10mm. So, the FBI 10mm is pretty much the same as the .40. In fact, that near-equivalence is the very reason the .40 came into existence: Smith & Wesson realized they could get "10mm" performance out of a 9mm-length cartridge and 9mm-sized pistols For example, Federal's current PD 10mm offering is a 180gr JHP listed at 1030 fps; their .40 180 gr offering is listed at 1000fps. PS: What is the effect, if the bailiff had a .40, of the 10mm being "even more powerful"? It generally means that, at higher velocity, the very same bullet would expand more quickly, shed more weight...and so penetrate less. |
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April 5, 2017, 09:54 AM | #128 | |||
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Join Date: March 25, 2017
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That was a mistake. Quote:
By the way, the courts call "inside baseball" by the term "special knowledge". It is exactly what jurors are NOT expected to possess (they have general knowledge), and exactly what expert witnesses are employed to tell jurors about. If the defendant can also, by discoverable documents, show the jury that he possessed that same special knowledge prior to the incident, so much the better. Last edited by Loosedhorse; April 5, 2017 at 10:10 AM. |
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April 5, 2017, 10:47 AM | #129 | |
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The prosecution had made big issue of the lethality of the 10MM and the hollow point bullets. By dwelling on it to try to make a point about "truth", the defense would likely have made the firearm issue an even bigger one in the minds of the jurors than it already was. Look at it this way: if a questionable homicide case is being tried and the prosecution introduces a black pistol grip shotgun with an ammunition holder and a flashlight on it as the "murder" weapon, would the defense be well advised to have someone to to explain why the gun isn't really "all that bad" because a 1 1/2 ounce buck load is a 1 1/2 bounce buck load? We know from Dr. Glenn Meyers' jury simulation experiments that the appearance of the gun may well be damaging, even if the prosecutor says nothing about it. Should the defense try to take the issue farther into the minds of the jurors than it already is? Attorneys with whom I have discussed the question say no. I agree with Lohman446. If the defense believed it prudent to try to influence the jury by arguing points about the gun issue, rather than trying to concentrate on other aspects of the case, that would best have been done by having an expert articulate why it would have been prudent for a hiker in the area to carry a 10MM in the first place--if the facts of the locale would support that. I do not know whether that would have been effective. In many areas, a 10MM would not reasonably be really needed for any probable threat. In others, carrying one might be a good idea. |
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April 5, 2017, 11:00 AM | #130 | |
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Join Date: March 25, 2017
Posts: 115
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OM, you remind me of a couple people I know. Only superficially, of course, since that's the only way that I "know" you. In any case, I learn much more from those I disagree with than from those I agree with, so once again I thank you, sincerely. Still, there can come a point in any conversation where I (perhaps both of us) feel that we've learned as much from each other as we're going to. So, again, I retire. Last edited by Loosedhorse; April 5, 2017 at 11:40 AM. |
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April 5, 2017, 11:57 AM | #131 | |
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Join Date: June 8, 2008
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But that just might be the basis for a juror's conclusion, should the subject come up in court. Shouldn't. but it might. And that was the subject at hand. I do not hike any more. If I did, I would likely strap on my five inch seven shot 686--even though the most dangerous predators around here are people, and my 9MM would suffice. Would it hurt me in court? I doubt it. Revolvers are likely to raise eyebrows than black guns with all knows of accessories on them. |
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April 5, 2017, 08:53 PM | #132 | ||
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Join Date: June 8, 2008
Posts: 4,022
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An extremely light trigger pull weight that is materially outside the range of customary factory specifications could still present problems, however, in a suit alleging an unintentional discharge. And it should be relatively easy to support a contention that there are, in fact, "accepted" factory standards. As Massad Ayoob put it in the aforementioned article, That trigger pull modifications can be harmful in terms of legal outcomes is not mere speculation. |
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April 5, 2017, 09:55 PM | #133 | ||
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Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
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A professional forming an opinion based on his education, training, and experience is not mere guessing.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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April 5, 2017, 10:58 PM | #134 |
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Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 9,471
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Gone on long enough.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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