S&W Pre Model 10 snub nose in .38 S&W?

kh1911 · April 7, 2018, 01:48 AM

I just bought a Smith and Wesson Pre-Model 10 Snub nose on gunboker which was advertised as .38 Special, however the gun shop I got it deliver to said that .38 spl didn't fit in the cylinder and neither did .357 magnum, but .38 S&W did fit. I haven't been able to get over to the shop to pick it up yet so I haven't seen it up close. It has no caliber markings. Did they make K frame Smiths in .38 S&W? I haven't come across one before, Or did the gun shop possibly try the wrong round or something? Thanks

10-96 · April 7, 2018, 01:56 AM

That's a head scratcher... S&W was always pretty good about putting the caliber/chambering on their sidearms. Oh yeah, they made a boatload of K-frames (pre 1957 numerical modeled revolvers mostly) in .38 S&W. I think they even made some post 1957 mostly for export to such places that didn't cotton to their citizenry having firearms chambered in what was once military cartridges. I don't know when they dropped that ctg from it's line-up for good.

Not having a caliber stamped on it might lead me to suspect it as a frankengun or a Spanish knock-off. Stranger things happen though. Check it out real good.

The most commonly seen K-framed .38S&W's these days are kinda crudely finished Victory Models. If it's a factory snub Victory- it might pay to do some research on that- them run on the rare side.

**Mike Irwin** · April 7, 2018, 05:41 AM

Yes, S&W made K frames in .38 S&W, primarily for the British during WW II, but they were sold on the civilian market after WW II.

One pertinent question...

Under the barrel, the tip of the ejector rod... Does it fit into a lug on the barrel? Or is it unsupported?

My guess is that you have a WW II era Victory model made for the British in .38 S&W, but which has had the barrel chopped down to make a snub nose.

CajunBass · April 7, 2018, 06:46 AM

While I suspect it's most likely a British surplus I'd think if the barrel had been chopped, they would have reamed the chambers out to 38 Special.

I wonder if it might be a Model 11? The Model 11 was sort of an odd duck being a K-frame chambered for 38 S&W, but I remember seeing them in the Shooters Bible many years ago. Probably most went overseas to British Commonwealth countries. I've never actually seen one mind you, but I remember reading about them.

Bayou · April 7, 2018, 08:12 AM

I have a 1951 vintage pre-model 10 S&W in 38 SPL that my Dad bought new back then. Here are a couple of pics. Notice the half moon front sight and diamond grips:

Jim Watson · April 7, 2018, 09:04 AM

Highly likely that Mike is right and you bought a pig in a poke which turned out to be a sawn off BSR. I hope it was cheap.
Of course if Cajun is right and you have a factory short Model 11, you have just about struck gold.

SaxonPig · April 7, 2018, 09:23 AM

IMO 99% likely you bought a butchered British Victory Model. S&W did make the M&P in 38 S&W for Canada and it was the Model 11 after 1958. If this is what you bought then you scored. I would love to have one.

Question. Is there a lanyard ring or a filled hole for one? Sign it's a chopped VM.

BAYOU take note. Your gun is actually a pre-M11, not M10.

Driftwood Johnson · April 7, 2018, 09:56 AM

Howdy

If it is a chopped down British Victory model it will probably have a V prefix in front of the Serial Number on the bottom of the butt. Or perhaps a SV prefix for the ones with the modern hammer block installed.

Also, look for some British acceptance marks. Perhaps a small crown stamped on the bottom of the butt.

**Mike Irwin** · April 7, 2018, 11:28 AM

The US civilian version of the K frame .38 S&W continued in production after World War II. It wasn't a big seller for the company, but it did see sales overseas to British colonies and the like.

After 1957 it became the Model 11 and continued in production for some years after that.

I'm not 100% certain, but I do not believe that it was ever offered commercially with a 2" barrel.

I don't think that it was manufactured for the British with a 2" barrel, either.

All 2" barreled K frames from WW II, and there were very few of them, were .38 Special and were intended for US use.

It's possible that a few were manufactured, but Jinks & Nahaus don't mention a 2" version .38 S&W, either in WW II production, civilian production after the war, or production as the Model 11 after 1957.

kh1911 · April 7, 2018, 12:57 PM

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This Is the gun I bought

lechiffre · April 7, 2018, 02:35 PM

Chopped.

Jim Watson · April 7, 2018, 02:50 PM

Chopped, and Bubba Bumper Chromed. Or maybe nickel but still done at Bubba's.
Plastic stags.
Lanyard not only removed but the hole globbed full of something. Weld, maybe, since it too the plating.

They did these things by the barge load. They had lots of surplus and US television and bookstores were covered up with detective stories, so the "snubnose .38" was an easy sell. Unusual this one didn't get reamed to kinda sorta shoot Specials.

Rob228 · April 7, 2018, 03:27 PM

Why was the gunshop you shipped it to playing with it?

April 7, 2018, 01:48 AM	#1
kh1911 Member Join Date: July 15, 2012 Posts: 54	S&W Pre Model 10 snub nose in .38 S&W? I just bought a Smith and Wesson Pre-Model 10 Snub nose on gunboker which was advertised as .38 Special, however the gun shop I got it deliver to said that .38 spl didn't fit in the cylinder and neither did .357 magnum, but .38 S&W did fit. I haven't been able to get over to the shop to pick it up yet so I haven't seen it up close. It has no caliber markings. Did they make K frame Smiths in .38 S&W? I haven't come across one before, Or did the gun shop possibly try the wrong round or something? Thanks

April 7, 2018, 01:56 AM	#2
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,159	That's a head scratcher... S&W was always pretty good about putting the caliber/chambering on their sidearms. Oh yeah, they made a boatload of K-frames (pre 1957 numerical modeled revolvers mostly) in .38 S&W. I think they even made some post 1957 mostly for export to such places that didn't cotton to their citizenry having firearms chambered in what was once military cartridges. I don't know when they dropped that ctg from it's line-up for good. Not having a caliber stamped on it might lead me to suspect it as a frankengun or a Spanish knock-off. Stranger things happen though. Check it out real good. The most commonly seen K-framed .38S&W's these days are kinda crudely finished Victory Models. If it's a factory snub Victory- it might pay to do some research on that- them run on the rare side. __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

April 7, 2018, 05:41 AM	#3
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	Yes, S&W made K frames in .38 S&W, primarily for the British during WW II, but they were sold on the civilian market after WW II. One pertinent question... Under the barrel, the tip of the ejector rod... Does it fit into a lug on the barrel? Or is it unsupported? My guess is that you have a WW II era Victory model made for the British in .38 S&W, but which has had the barrel chopped down to make a snub nose. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

April 7, 2018, 06:46 AM	#4
CajunBass Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2005 Location: North Chesterfield, Virginia Posts: 4,767	While I suspect it's most likely a British surplus I'd think if the barrel had been chopped, they would have reamed the chambers out to 38 Special. I wonder if it might be a Model 11? The Model 11 was sort of an odd duck being a K-frame chambered for 38 S&W, but I remember seeing them in the Shooters Bible many years ago. Probably most went overseas to British Commonwealth countries. I've never actually seen one mind you, but I remember reading about them. __________________ For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 (NKJV)

April 7, 2018, 08:12 AM	#5
Bayou Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2016 Location: SE Louisiana Posts: 300	I have a 1951 vintage pre-model 10 S&W in 38 SPL that my Dad bought new back then. Here are a couple of pics. Notice the half moon front sight and diamond grips: __________________ Bayou NRA Life Member "Keep Calm and Reload"

April 7, 2018, 09:04 AM	#6
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,538	Highly likely that Mike is right and you bought a pig in a poke which turned out to be a sawn off BSR. I hope it was cheap. Of course if Cajun is right and you have a factory short Model 11, you have just about struck gold.

April 7, 2018, 09:23 AM	#7
SaxonPig Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2006 Posts: 1,900	IMO 99% likely you bought a butchered British Victory Model. S&W did make the M&P in 38 S&W for Canada and it was the Model 11 after 1958. If this is what you bought then you scored. I would love to have one. Question. Is there a lanyard ring or a filled hole for one? Sign it's a chopped VM. BAYOU take note. Your gun is actually a pre-M11, not M10.

April 7, 2018, 09:56 AM	#8
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	Howdy If it is a chopped down British Victory model it will probably have a V prefix in front of the Serial Number on the bottom of the butt. Or perhaps a SV prefix for the ones with the modern hammer block installed. Also, look for some British acceptance marks. Perhaps a small crown stamped on the bottom of the butt.

April 7, 2018, 11:28 AM	#9
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	The US civilian version of the K frame .38 S&W continued in production after World War II. It wasn't a big seller for the company, but it did see sales overseas to British colonies and the like. After 1957 it became the Model 11 and continued in production for some years after that. I'm not 100% certain, but I do not believe that it was ever offered commercially with a 2" barrel. I don't think that it was manufactured for the British with a 2" barrel, either. All 2" barreled K frames from WW II, and there were very few of them, were .38 Special and were intended for US use. It's possible that a few were manufactured, but Jinks & Nahaus don't mention a 2" version .38 S&W, either in WW II production, civilian production after the war, or production as the Model 11 after 1957. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

April 7, 2018, 12:57 PM	#10
kh1911 Member Join Date: July 15, 2012 Posts: 54	[IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] This Is the gun I bought

April 7, 2018, 02:35 PM	#11
lechiffre Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Location: phoenix,az Posts: 513	Chopped. __________________ if God hadn't meant us to shoot he wouldn't have given us trigger fingers do the interns get glocks ?

April 7, 2018, 02:50 PM	#12
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,538	Chopped, and Bubba Bumper Chromed. Or maybe nickel but still done at Bubba's. Plastic stags. Lanyard not only removed but the hole globbed full of something. Weld, maybe, since it too the plating. They did these things by the barge load. They had lots of surplus and US television and bookstores were covered up with detective stories, so the "snubnose .38" was an easy sell. Unusual this one didn't get reamed to kinda sorta shoot Specials.

April 7, 2018, 03:27 PM	#13
Rob228 Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2010 Location: Hampstead NC Posts: 1,450	Why was the gunshop you shipped it to playing with it?