Remington 1858. Replica Vs. original

wogpotter · May 21, 2011, 07:31 PM

Today I had my first change to actually see & handle a couple of original C&B revolvers.
An (actually 2) 1860 Colts & a Remington-Beales & I was surprised by the differences between the more modern replicas & the originals. Let me explain a little.

The Remington-Beales second model (1858) original as compared to the replica I own.
The "safety notches" were more rounded, softer edged & wider than those I have. The shields on the nipple cuts in the cylinder were totally different too. Not just wider but more tapered, almost rounded, & vastly easier to access with a capper. Maybe this is why replica Remington "1858 New Army" is difficult to use with a capper?

Now the (2) 1860 Colts....
One had a MUCH shallower front sight ( 1/16" tall, maybe) & NO & I mean NO rear sight notch in the hammer! Were these ever cut by the user from scratch? Some kind of zeroing process for user loads maybe? ( just guessing).
The second 1860 had a very shallow hammer notch & a slightly bigger ( taller) front sight blade. Is this just individual model-to-model variations or something else?

Sorry no pictures possible "No flash photography" museum rules applied .

pohill · May 21, 2011, 07:39 PM

I just acquired a Remington-Beals .36. It doesn't have any safety notches. Where did you handle the originals? I went to the Colt Collection at the Hartford, Ct State Library and the only guns you could handle were two Gatling guns, which was pretty cool.

Hawg · May 21, 2011, 08:43 PM

There were three models. The original Beals didn't have notches. The web under the loading lever was shorter and it had a silver cone front sight. Then there was the transition 1861 revolvers that had the safety notches and a slot over the loading lever so the cylinder pin could be removed without dropping the lever. Then the final version came about in 63. The 63 version is what the clones are copied from.

pohill · May 21, 2011, 08:48 PM

This is the one I just got. I'm trying to name the engraver.

Hawg · May 21, 2011, 08:53 PM

I'd say it was factory altho I've never seen a factory engraved Beals. You might do some searching and find out who was doing factory engraving at the time.

pohill · May 21, 2011, 09:00 PM

I'll start a new thread so I don't hijack this one.

wogpotter · May 22, 2011, 08:48 AM

I was at the Army Heritage museum.
I'm guessing the .44 I had a chance to examine would be second model?
Notches, blade front-sight with a round shaft Long web & no cutout for the reload lever.
The nut for the cross bolt holding the grip panels on was different as well it had 2 little tabs (wings) I guess to prevent it turning when the bolt was tightened?

Smokin_Gun · May 26, 2011, 12:39 PM

That's a Beauty there Pohill and Glad to hear about the apraisal :O)

I have an 1861 Old army and it wasn't a transition but it was only made a couple years ...mine was made in 1862 and there are no safety notches on the Old Army Models... 1863 was the 2nd one made for the Federals and they accepted and issued them in the Civil War that would be the Rem known to most as the 1858 NMA ... in .44 & .36 cal.

wogpotter · May 27, 2011, 03:56 PM

Sorry if I made the OP misleading. It wasn't intended to be about 1st, 2nd or 3rd model variations but about the different (wider more rounded) shape of the nipple's cut in the original as compared to modern reproductions. I was interested mainly in how if at all this would have an effect on using a capper, something that is tricky with modern versions.
The point being that maybe the originals with more wiggle room would have (maybe) been easy to cap with a capper.

May 21, 2011, 07:31 PM	#1
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Remington 1858. Replica Vs. original Today I had my first change to actually see & handle a couple of original C&B revolvers. An (actually 2) 1860 Colts & a Remington-Beales & I was surprised by the differences between the more modern replicas & the originals. Let me explain a little. The Remington-Beales second model (1858) original as compared to the replica I own. The "safety notches" were more rounded, softer edged & wider than those I have. The shields on the nipple cuts in the cylinder were totally different too. Not just wider but more tapered, almost rounded, & vastly easier to access with a capper. Maybe this is why replica Remington "1858 New Army" is difficult to use with a capper? Now the (2) 1860 Colts.... One had a MUCH shallower front sight ( 1/16" tall, maybe) & NO & I mean NO rear sight notch in the hammer! Were these ever cut by the user from scratch? Some kind of zeroing process for user loads maybe? ( just guessing). The second 1860 had a very shallow hammer notch & a slightly bigger ( taller) front sight blade. Is this just individual model-to-model variations or something else? Sorry no pictures possible "No flash photography" museum rules applied . __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

May 22, 2011, 08:48 AM	#7
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	I was at the Army Heritage museum. I'm guessing the .44 I had a chance to examine would be second model? Notches, blade front-sight with a round shaft Long web & no cutout for the reload lever. The nut for the cross bolt holding the grip panels on was different as well it had 2 little tabs (wings) I guess to prevent it turning when the bolt was tightened? __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

May 26, 2011, 12:39 PM	#8
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	That's a Beauty there Pohill and Glad to hear about the apraisal :O) I have an 1861 Old army and it wasn't a transition but it was only made a couple years ...mine was made in 1862 and there are no safety notches on the Old Army Models... 1863 was the 2nd one made for the Federals and they accepted and issued them in the Civil War that would be the Rem known to most as the 1858 NMA ... in .44 & .36 cal. __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php Last edited by Smokin_Gun; May 27, 2011 at 07:13 PM.

May 27, 2011, 03:56 PM	#9
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Sorry if I made the OP misleading. It wasn't intended to be about 1st, 2nd or 3rd model variations but about the different (wider more rounded) shape of the nipple's cut in the original as compared to modern reproductions. I was interested mainly in how if at all this would have an effect on using a capper, something that is tricky with modern versions. The point being that maybe the originals with more wiggle room would have (maybe) been easy to cap with a capper. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

May 21, 2011, 07:39 PM	#2
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	I just acquired a Remington-Beals .36. It doesn't have any safety notches. Where did you handle the originals? I went to the Colt Collection at the Hartford, Ct State Library and the only guns you could handle were two Gatling guns, which was pretty cool.

May 21, 2011, 08:43 PM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	There were three models. The original Beals didn't have notches. The web under the loading lever was shorter and it had a silver cone front sight. Then there was the transition 1861 revolvers that had the safety notches and a slot over the loading lever so the cylinder pin could be removed without dropping the lever. Then the final version came about in 63. The 63 version is what the clones are copied from.

May 21, 2011, 08:48 PM	#4
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	This is the one I just got. I'm trying to name the engraver.

May 21, 2011, 08:53 PM	#5
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	I'd say it was factory altho I've never seen a factory engraved Beals. You might do some searching and find out who was doing factory engraving at the time.

May 21, 2011, 09:00 PM	#6
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	I'll start a new thread so I don't hijack this one.