SC Whitetail Deer with a .30 Carbine?

bigjack59 · October 15, 2009, 06:19 PM

Okay, a few parameters first: Deer I hunt average 85 to 150lbs. The two blinds/stands I would hunt have ranges from 25 to 100 yards. Assume I can hit the deer in the right place, heart lung shot, neck/head shot. Given those things, would you consider a .30 Carbine enough gun? Good shot placement under 100 yards, not so big deer. I ask because I have had people tell me the Carbine is woefully underpowered for any game larger than rabbits, etc. It killed a lot of the other side in several wars, and has about 975 ft pounds at the muzzle. What gives?

Doyle · October 15, 2009, 06:32 PM

Nope, not enough power. Even the GI's who used it in WWII recognized it as being underpowered.

ZeroJunk · October 15, 2009, 07:00 PM

If it is all you have and you can find some ammo with premiun hunting bullets you could succeed up close.
I looked and the usual suspects only have FMJ in stock which would probably be a disappointment.

HShack · October 15, 2009, 08:50 PM

Sure, go ahead. Or any .22 is good; just head shoot 'em. Oh! And let's do it at 600 yards.............

Good grief! You guys who want to use these itty bitty guns on big game- see how you feel when that deer leaves a little blood trail a half a mile long ,then you can't find it.

Use enough gun & realize you limitations. You owe it to the animal.

Shack

30-30remchester · October 15, 2009, 09:01 PM

I shot my first deer with one when I was 10 years old. A SMALL mule deer at 75 yards. Hit it in the heart, the bullet stopped in the heart, about 6" of penatration is all. Way to underpowered for even small deer.

bcarver · October 15, 2009, 09:18 PM

I would avoid it.
It is a pistol caliber in carbine form.
Shotgun with buck shot would be better.
But they are fun to tote around the woods.

The carbine was designed for rear guard troops (cooks, quartermasters, officers, secretaries at HG. Basicly anyone who was not expected to shoot at an enemy personel. It is great for armadillo shooting and coyote/feral dog/cats.

However if I was in alaska with a 30 carbine and hungry I would try a caribou.

It would be like eating soup with a fork. It is gonna be a lot of work to get just a little sucess. And you would only do it if you were stupid or without a spoon.

Here is an idea. Imagine you are gonna be shot and left to die in the woods. What caliber and chamber do you want to be with?
I like blowing the heart to jello. They run but only so far.

Friends don't let friends shoot weak guns. Or go home with the ugly chick in the tank top yelling "I am so Drunk" It sounds fun but you always regret it.

cat9x · October 16, 2009, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Sure, go ahead. Or any .22 is good; just head shoot 'em. Oh! And let's do it at 600 yards.............

Good grief! You guys who want to use these itty bitty guns on big game- see how you feel when that deer leaves a little blood trail a half a mile long ,then you can't find it.

Use enough gun & realize you limitations. You owe it to the animal.

Shack

Sometimes I think the same thing.

GeauxTide · October 16, 2009, 09:09 AM

They weren't good with people........................................................

bigjack59 · October 16, 2009, 09:17 AM

Here's my deal: Most everyone would tell you a .357 in a lever gun is plenty for deer. The Carbine out performs the .357 in energy and penetration at all ranges.

The .30 Carbine was said to be underpowered by some soldiers. Well, having been there, soldiers will always say their weapon is underpowered, has too much recoil, jams, is too long/short/heavy or light. Anecdotal evidence aside, it was a sidearm, not a main battle rifle. In fact some sources say that up to 70% of all infantry inflicted casualties on Okinawa were inflicted by Carbines fitted with the first night vision device at ranges of less than 100 yards. (pretty ballsy shooting!) I have heard anecdotal evidence that it was a short range killer or a bb gun.

So other than tying up my neighbors 100 pound dog and doing some ballistic testing, has anyone shot deer, within my parameters, and had good or bad experience?

bigjack59 · October 16, 2009, 09:21 AM

Interesting article: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=content;col1

Dr. Strangelove · October 16, 2009, 09:52 AM

Many things have killed deer over the years, hunters, bobcats, cars, wolves, etc., but the only thing I am certain never has is an internet discussion forum.

You have to make the decision. If it's legal in SC, then give it a "shot". You sound like you have the right concerns regarding range and bullet placement, so if it's an ethical shot to you, take it.

I wonder how many of the folks above have ever shot a deer with a .30 carbine? I have not, in fact I haven't fired a .30 carbine in probably 30 years. I'm certainly no expert, but it seems reasonable enough to me staying within the OP's parameters.

rodwhaincamo · October 16, 2009, 09:57 AM

The HP/SP bullets aren't designed for medium game. Maybe it would work OK (and by that I mean barely OK) from a carbine at 25 yds. If you can pull off head and neck shots I'd say it could be done out to 100 yds. But I would strongly recommend getting/using a much more qualified gun for the task of hunting.
You really need to be fair and respect the game you hunt by choosing the right tools for the sake of a humane kill. No needless suffering. Oh, and I've heard that the 30 Carb was very underpowered and unliked for that reason, but carried and used because it was compact and light. Was more a paratrooper/vehicle rifle where the overall length was an issue.

bigjack59 · October 16, 2009, 09:58 AM

A voice of reason in the wilderness! I was just trying to flush out someone with some real time over the gun shooting deer. I think I am going to take my little Carbine to the range and then to my "punchbowl" and wait on some whitetail with my "hunting" load .30 Carbines. If I don't shoot one, not a good day wasted, my little punchbowl overlooks a nice stream and is always cool and shaded. I think falling asleep is the biggest threat to my deer harvesting!

rodwhaincamo · October 16, 2009, 10:18 AM

The big difference between the 357 and 30 is the bullet design. I just checked both Federal and Winchester, and your info is incorrect about the 30 Carb being more powerful. @ 100 yds the Fed 30 Car 110 grn has 597 ft/lbs, Win 357 158 grn has 715, and Fed 180 grn has 657. The 30 cal being as light weight with a small sectional density coupled with a bullet design not intended for madium game spells animal suffering if everything doesn't work out perfectly. That's why I said a heart/lung shot under 25 yds may work. Now a head or neck shot will definately work. People do it with 22s.

rodwhaincamo · October 16, 2009, 10:22 AM

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing you. If it was all I had I'd take it and go for neck shots, which I'm fond of. They drop right there. If given the choice I'd rather get a caliber more suited for medium game so that I wasn't hindered by the range or shot placement (head/neck). So if that's all you have access to then use it.

bigjack59 · October 16, 2009, 11:58 AM

I have a bunch of other guns, but I just love this dang carbine. My wife got it for me for my birthday. I guess first things first, I need to make sure I can pull off the shot reliably before I try anything else.

Yellowfin · October 16, 2009, 12:07 PM

For dirt cheap just go get a used .30-30 lever gun and not have to wonder.

bigjack59 · October 16, 2009, 12:16 PM

You're right, but I love the stupid carbine! Haven't you ever carried a weapon and just felt like it was special? Yes, I am crazy.

ZeroJunk · October 16, 2009, 12:25 PM

Midway shows that CarBon makes a 30 with a Barnes Triple X.
If you could round up a box I'm sure they would kill a deer within 100 yards with a heart/lung shot.

But, as has been said it ain't the best for the job. But, try to get a consensus on what is.

Yellowfin · October 16, 2009, 12:34 PM

I certainly have had special feelings about certain guns, that's for sure, and still do. My pre '64 Model 70 in .264 Mag is one like that, it feels like a lightning bolt. Another is a Marlin 336 I got for home defense--I almost can't put it down it feels so good. Maybe give that one a try, bigjack.

Art Eatman · October 16, 2009, 12:46 PM

Bullet selection is the obvious problem, even for a reloader. Whatever decent hunting bullet you choose must also feed properly.

Next, of course, is the intended use: In military combat, you're not concerned with ethical kills, nor do you have to stop shooting just because an enemy falls to the ground. In civilian self-defense, you're not concerned with ethical kills, either, but you are supposed to stop shooting when the immediate threat ceases. In hunting, the optimum is a clean and ethical DRT kill.

Hey, I really, really enjoyed driving open-wheel race cars, but they don't haul loads of cargo as nearly as well as does my pickup truck.

Maromero · October 16, 2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

ALWAYS BRING ENOUGH GUN

Follow your own advice.

cat9x · October 16, 2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

ALWAYS BRING ENOUGH GUN

almost ironic considering the original question

sc928porsche · October 16, 2009, 03:16 PM

The 30 carbine was designed to replace the sidearm, NOT to replace the battle rifle. In that respect, it was very successful.

cole k · October 16, 2009, 05:55 PM

Blackjack, the .30 Carbine isn't enough gun. I'd get a .30-30.

October 15, 2009, 06:19 PM	#1
bigjack59 Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2008 Location: greenville sc Posts: 221	SC Whitetail Deer with a .30 Carbine? Okay, a few parameters first: Deer I hunt average 85 to 150lbs. The two blinds/stands I would hunt have ranges from 25 to 100 yards. Assume I can hit the deer in the right place, heart lung shot, neck/head shot. Given those things, would you consider a .30 Carbine enough gun? Good shot placement under 100 yards, not so big deer. I ask because I have had people tell me the Carbine is woefully underpowered for any game larger than rabbits, etc. It killed a lot of the other side in several wars, and has about 975 ft pounds at the muzzle. What gives? __________________ ALWAYS BRING ENOUGH GUN

October 15, 2009, 08:50 PM	#4
HShack Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2009 Location: Lexington, SC Posts: 106	.30 carbine on deer? Sure, go ahead. Or any .22 is good; just head shoot 'em. Oh! And let's do it at 600 yards............. Good grief! You guys who want to use these itty bitty guns on big game- see how you feel when that deer leaves a little blood trail a half a mile long ,then you can't find it. Use enough gun & realize you limitations. You owe it to the animal. Shack __________________ Shack

October 15, 2009, 09:18 PM	#6
bcarver Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2007 Location: Jackson,Mississippi Posts: 838	30 cal I would avoid it. It is a pistol caliber in carbine form. Shotgun with buck shot would be better. But they are fun to tote around the woods. The carbine was designed for rear guard troops (cooks, quartermasters, officers, secretaries at HG. Basicly anyone who was not expected to shoot at an enemy personel. It is great for armadillo shooting and coyote/feral dog/cats. However if I was in alaska with a 30 carbine and hungry I would try a caribou. It would be like eating soup with a fork. It is gonna be a lot of work to get just a little sucess. And you would only do it if you were stupid or without a spoon. Here is an idea. Imagine you are gonna be shot and left to die in the woods. What caliber and chamber do you want to be with? I like blowing the heart to jello. They run but only so far. Friends don't let friends shoot weak guns. Or go home with the ugly chick in the tank top yelling "I am so Drunk" It sounds fun but you always regret it. Last edited by bcarver; October 15, 2009 at 09:49 PM.

October 16, 2009, 09:17 AM	#9
bigjack59 Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2008 Location: greenville sc Posts: 221	Here's my deal: Most everyone would tell you a .357 in a lever gun is plenty for deer. The Carbine out performs the .357 in energy and penetration at all ranges. The .30 Carbine was said to be underpowered by some soldiers. Well, having been there, soldiers will always say their weapon is underpowered, has too much recoil, jams, is too long/short/heavy or light. Anecdotal evidence aside, it was a sidearm, not a main battle rifle. In fact some sources say that up to 70% of all infantry inflicted casualties on Okinawa were inflicted by Carbines fitted with the first night vision device at ranges of less than 100 yards. (pretty ballsy shooting!) I have heard anecdotal evidence that it was a short range killer or a bb gun. So other than tying up my neighbors 100 pound dog and doing some ballistic testing, has anyone shot deer, within my parameters, and had good or bad experience? __________________ ALWAYS BRING ENOUGH GUN

October 16, 2009, 09:21 AM	#10
bigjack59 Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2008 Location: greenville sc Posts: 221	Interesting article: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=content;col1 __________________ ALWAYS BRING ENOUGH GUN

October 15, 2009, 06:32 PM	#2
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	Nope, not enough power. Even the GI's who used it in WWII recognized it as being underpowered.

October 15, 2009, 07:00 PM	#3
ZeroJunk Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2006 Location: Browns Summit NC Posts: 2,589	If it is all you have and you can find some ammo with premiun hunting bullets you could succeed up close. I looked and the usual suspects only have FMJ in stock which would probably be a disappointment.

October 15, 2009, 09:01 PM	#5
30-30remchester Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2009 Location: mountains of colorado Posts: 977	I shot my first deer with one when I was 10 years old. A SMALL mule deer at 75 yards. Hit it in the heart, the bullet stopped in the heart, about 6" of penatration is all. Way to underpowered for even small deer.

October 16, 2009, 09:09 AM	#8
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,423	They weren't good with people........................................................

October 16, 2009, 09:52 AM	#11
Dr. Strangelove Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2008 Location: Athens, GA Posts: 1,436	Many things have killed deer over the years, hunters, bobcats, cars, wolves, etc., but the only thing I am certain never has is an internet discussion forum. You have to make the decision. If it's legal in SC, then give it a "shot". You sound like you have the right concerns regarding range and bullet placement, so if it's an ethical shot to you, take it. I wonder how many of the folks above have ever shot a deer with a .30 carbine? I have not, in fact I haven't fired a .30 carbine in probably 30 years. I'm certainly no expert, but it seems reasonable enough to me staying within the OP's parameters.

October 16, 2009, 09:57 AM	#12
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	The HP/SP bullets aren't designed for medium game. Maybe it would work OK (and by that I mean barely OK) from a carbine at 25 yds. If you can pull off head and neck shots I'd say it could be done out to 100 yds. But I would strongly recommend getting/using a much more qualified gun for the task of hunting. You really need to be fair and respect the game you hunt by choosing the right tools for the sake of a humane kill. No needless suffering. Oh, and I've heard that the 30 Carb was very underpowered and unliked for that reason, but carried and used because it was compact and light. Was more a paratrooper/vehicle rifle where the overall length was an issue.

October 16, 2009, 09:58 AM	#13
bigjack59 Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2008 Location: greenville sc Posts: 221	A voice of reason in the wilderness! I was just trying to flush out someone with some real time over the gun shooting deer. I think I am going to take my little Carbine to the range and then to my "punchbowl" and wait on some whitetail with my "hunting" load .30 Carbines. If I don't shoot one, not a good day wasted, my little punchbowl overlooks a nice stream and is always cool and shaded. I think falling asleep is the biggest threat to my deer harvesting! __________________ ALWAYS BRING ENOUGH GUN

October 16, 2009, 10:18 AM	#14
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	The big difference between the 357 and 30 is the bullet design. I just checked both Federal and Winchester, and your info is incorrect about the 30 Carb being more powerful. @ 100 yds the Fed 30 Car 110 grn has 597 ft/lbs, Win 357 158 grn has 715, and Fed 180 grn has 657. The 30 cal being as light weight with a small sectional density coupled with a bullet design not intended for madium game spells animal suffering if everything doesn't work out perfectly. That's why I said a heart/lung shot under 25 yds may work. Now a head or neck shot will definately work. People do it with 22s.

October 16, 2009, 10:22 AM	#15
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing you. If it was all I had I'd take it and go for neck shots, which I'm fond of. They drop right there. If given the choice I'd rather get a caliber more suited for medium game so that I wasn't hindered by the range or shot placement (head/neck). So if that's all you have access to then use it.

October 16, 2009, 11:58 AM	#16
bigjack59 Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2008 Location: greenville sc Posts: 221	I have a bunch of other guns, but I just love this dang carbine. My wife got it for me for my birthday. I guess first things first, I need to make sure I can pull off the shot reliably before I try anything else. __________________ ALWAYS BRING ENOUGH GUN

October 16, 2009, 12:07 PM	#17
Yellowfin Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2007 Location: Lancaster Co, PA Posts: 2,311	For dirt cheap just go get a used .30-30 lever gun and not have to wonder. __________________ Students for Concealed Carry on Campus http://www.concealedcampus.org "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things by passing insane laws--that's insane!" - Penn Jillette

October 16, 2009, 12:16 PM	#18
bigjack59 Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2008 Location: greenville sc Posts: 221	You're right, but I love the stupid carbine! Haven't you ever carried a weapon and just felt like it was special? Yes, I am crazy. __________________ ALWAYS BRING ENOUGH GUN

October 16, 2009, 12:25 PM	#19
ZeroJunk Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2006 Location: Browns Summit NC Posts: 2,589	Midway shows that CarBon makes a 30 with a Barnes Triple X. If you could round up a box I'm sure they would kill a deer within 100 yards with a heart/lung shot. But, as has been said it ain't the best for the job. But, try to get a consensus on what is.

October 16, 2009, 12:34 PM	#20
Yellowfin Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2007 Location: Lancaster Co, PA Posts: 2,311	I certainly have had special feelings about certain guns, that's for sure, and still do. My pre '64 Model 70 in .264 Mag is one like that, it feels like a lightning bolt. Another is a Marlin 336 I got for home defense--I almost can't put it down it feels so good. Maybe give that one a try, bigjack. __________________ Students for Concealed Carry on Campus http://www.concealedcampus.org "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things by passing insane laws--that's insane!" - Penn Jillette

October 16, 2009, 12:46 PM	#21
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Bullet selection is the obvious problem, even for a reloader. Whatever decent hunting bullet you choose must also feed properly. Next, of course, is the intended use: In military combat, you're not concerned with ethical kills, nor do you have to stop shooting just because an enemy falls to the ground. In civilian self-defense, you're not concerned with ethical kills, either, but you are supposed to stop shooting when the immediate threat ceases. In hunting, the optimum is a clean and ethical DRT kill. Hey, I really, really enjoyed driving open-wheel race cars, but they don't haul loads of cargo as nearly as well as does my pickup truck.

October 16, 2009, 03:16 PM	#24
sc928porsche Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2008 Location: now living in alabama Posts: 2,433	The 30 carbine was designed to replace the sidearm, NOT to replace the battle rifle. In that respect, it was very successful. __________________ No such thing as a stupid question. What is stupid is not asking it.

October 16, 2009, 05:55 PM	#25
cole k Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2008 Location: east of the Big Muddy Posts: 248	Blackjack, the .30 Carbine isn't enough gun. I'd get a .30-30.