22-250 Hand Loads - Page 2

**44 AMP** · June 28, 2014, 10:45 AM

Quote:

If some here like to believe that the more shots you shoot to see how a gun groups why not just shoot a even one hundred rounds. If more is better to determine an average shoot just keep shooting.

Mathematics says the more (larger) your sample, the more precise (accurate) your average will be. But the real world throws in its own modifiers.

Old school science experiment, kids were sent out to measure the football field. Some with a yardstick, some with a ruler (12"). Guess who's result was most "accurate"?

Science says the smaller the measuring units, the more precise the measurement.

BUT,
The real world showed otherwise, in this case. Those using the ruler had results further off than those using the yardstick. Tiny errors and variations of placement were magnified by the ruler needing to be placed 3x more often than the yardstick, to get the measurements.

I see no point to shooting groups of more rounds than the rifle holds. And shooting a large number of groups to get an "average" of what your rifle will do, while interesting, might, or might not give you actual useful information.

Brian Pfleuger · June 28, 2014, 11:02 AM

Besides the practicality of burning 25% of your barrel life just confirming a single load.

If you're wrong twice, you might as well throw the barrel out and start over since even if you find the accurate one on the 3rd try you've only got a few hundred shots left.

My accuracy standard goes like this... I need to know that when my finger touches the trigger after the crosshairs have settled on that woodchuck at 350 yards, if the woodchuck is still alive after recoil recovery, it was MY fault and not the gun or load.

I've never had any trouble doing that with 3 shot groups.

I'm less concerned with pure MOA than I am distance from POA. I can shoot a 3 shot group one time that measures 1/4 MOA and another one next time that also measures 1/4 MOA but one has shot farthest from POA high and left and the other low and right. Those two groups if shot as one would be 1/2 MOA instead of 1/4. Guess what, the worst shots are still only 1/4 MOA from POA.

Very dead Mr Woodchuck.

Bart B. · June 28, 2014, 12:24 PM

I agree with Brian that burning up a fourth of your barrel life developing a load's not too wise.

But I've never worked up any load for .308's, .270's, .30-06's and a couple of 30 caliber magnums save once for Sierra's new Palma bullet in .308 cases and once for a 264 Win magnum because no data was available for the nickel plated bullets used. Why reinvent a wheel that's spun well enough to be the best?

603Country · June 28, 2014, 12:24 PM

Working up loads, I shoot 3 shot groups till I find one that looks like a keeper, and then I'll shoot a few 5 shot groups to confirm things. If I was a benchrester, that probably wouldn't be good enough, but it works for me. Once I have that good load, I'll then (when the mood strikes me) test the gun, scope, and load with cold bore single shots.

Like a lot of you guys, I've been doing this for a long time. If I grab a rifle and wander out to my shooting bench, settle in and put 3 shots where they should be, I'm happy and comfortable that all is as it should be. I don't need 5 or 10 shots, unless I just feel like doing some more shooting.

June 28, 2014, 11:02 AM	#27
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Besides the practicality of burning 25% of your barrel life just confirming a single load. If you're wrong twice, you might as well throw the barrel out and start over since even if you find the accurate one on the 3rd try you've only got a few hundred shots left. My accuracy standard goes like this... I need to know that when my finger touches the trigger after the crosshairs have settled on that woodchuck at 350 yards, if the woodchuck is still alive after recoil recovery, it was MY fault and not the gun or load. I've never had any trouble doing that with 3 shot groups. I'm less concerned with pure MOA than I am distance from POA. I can shoot a 3 shot group one time that measures 1/4 MOA and another one next time that also measures 1/4 MOA but one has shot farthest from POA high and left and the other low and right. Those two groups if shot as one would be 1/2 MOA instead of 1/4. Guess what, the worst shots are still only 1/4 MOA from POA. Very dead Mr Woodchuck.

June 28, 2014, 12:24 PM	#28
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	I agree with Brian that burning up a fourth of your barrel life developing a load's not too wise. But I've never worked up any load for .308's, .270's, .30-06's and a couple of 30 caliber magnums save once for Sierra's new Palma bullet in .308 cases and once for a 264 Win magnum because no data was available for the nickel plated bullets used. Why reinvent a wheel that's spun well enough to be the best?

June 28, 2014, 12:24 PM	#29
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Working up loads, I shoot 3 shot groups till I find one that looks like a keeper, and then I'll shoot a few 5 shot groups to confirm things. If I was a benchrester, that probably wouldn't be good enough, but it works for me. Once I have that good load, I'll then (when the mood strikes me) test the gun, scope, and load with cold bore single shots. Like a lot of you guys, I've been doing this for a long time. If I grab a rifle and wander out to my shooting bench, settle in and put 3 shots where they should be, I'm happy and comfortable that all is as it should be. I don't need 5 or 10 shots, unless I just feel like doing some more shooting.