454 Casull and 357 Mag reloading Questions

Big Yac · January 10, 2014, 05:39 PM

I've been reloading the 454 Casull for years now using Winchester 296, Hornady 300gr XTP mag bullets and WSR primers. These loads shoot nicely and are very accurate. Would I gain any advantage if I start using magnum primers? I will add that I know you dont use reduced loads with 296 which I dont.
My second question is with the 357 magnum, can I use Winchester 296 or would Ramshot Enforcer be better for a nice shooting 158 gr load?

cdoc42 · January 10, 2014, 06:20 PM

I bought my Freedom Arms .454 Casull at a time when the load data supplied was a bit more powerful than anticipated and it blew the extractor rod off the revolver. FA replaced it and the reload data and I've not had any problems since. At that time the cases were used with Large Pistol Primers but they quickly changed to small RIFLE primers. I use both Remington 7-1/2 bench rest and CCI 400 Small Rifle Primers. My 300 gr bullet load uses 31.0 gr of H110 which I understand is exactly the same powder as W296.

In the .357 Mag I've not used anything other than 2400, 17.0gr with a 125gr JHP with CCI Small Pistol MAGNUM primer.

Although I experiment constantly with the 17 calibers I reload I've never been interested in changing these 2 loads.

Nick_C_S · January 10, 2014, 06:40 PM

How long is the barrel on your 357?

Mike / Tx · January 10, 2014, 06:45 PM

Well if you shot that 454 a LOT in the conditions you folks have had over the past week or so I might say yes. However for the most part I firmly believe the SR primers have plenty of punch in them to light off most any charge of 296 that you would feel comfortable shooting.

If you want to give it a try though I wold back off the load a good 3% or even a touch more to start with. Then work back up to see how they shoot against your standard loads.

With my Raging Bull I found that the Winchester and CCI SRP's work about the same in the standard flavors and give about 75fps or so more velocity to the same loads using Wolf SR primers. The funny thing is that the Wolf primers give tighter groups even if I back the loads down to about the same FPS. I sure wished I had stocked up on those when I had the chance a few years back. They have turned in some great groups and are about all I use.

Big Yac · January 10, 2014, 07:14 PM

I should say the charge of 296 in the 454 is not a reduced load but not quite max...as you should load with 296. The primers I use are winchester small rifle primers. Was just curious if I'd see a difference with small rifle magnum primers. My combo shoots nicely and has never failed to light.

The 357 is a Ruger GP 100 with a 6" barrel. The bullets I have are 158 gr hollow points from Nosler and Hornady. I have available Winchester 296 and Enfrorcer but am willing to try another powder.

Nick_C_S · January 10, 2014, 09:08 PM

I asked about the barrel length because both 296 and Enforcer are slow powders and are best suited for long barrels. 6" is long enough for either.

I have no experience with Enforcer, but since it's a Ramshot product, I have no doubt that it's excellent stuff.

I have extensive experience with W296. W296 with 158g bullets (assuming they're jacketed) is a great combination. Load away. And yes, use magnum primers, crimp robustly, and don't underload. They'll have serious authority

WESHOOT2 · January 11, 2014, 02:54 PM

357 Magnum 158g hint: AA9

Sevens · January 13, 2014, 03:13 AM

I've been reloading the 454 Casull for years now using Winchester 296, Hornady 300gr XTP mag bullets and WSR primers. These loads shoot nicely and are very accurate.
If you like how they shoot -and- they are accurate...
Is there really, truly, any tangible way that you'd ever have any idea that a different primer might boost their speed by a little bit? If the net result is an increase in velocity -- would you notice, and/or, would you witness some manner of a gain?

Would I gain any advantage if I start using magnum primers?
It won't ever fit the guidelines of safe and proper handloading technique to merely switch primers and substitute a different (and hotter!) primer in to an already established load. That's a bad idea and most manuals have very specific warnings against it.

Thus, if you follow established safety related guidelines, you'd have to drop the load, and basically re-do your load development with a new primer. So... even -if- changing to a magnum primer might get you even better results than what you have now, there's no safe way for you to TRY that without re-developing the load.

And if you re-develop the load...
You'll have the answer of "will I gain?" far better by doing it than pretty much anyone could answer with either a guess or even their own hands-on experience. They don't have your revolver.

It sounds like you have a great "go-to" handload that gives you what you want right now. I don't see a lot of benefit in trying to improve upon it unless deep down... you aren't actually happy with the load.

TimSr · January 13, 2014, 07:40 AM

I have loaded both .454 and .357 for years. 296/110 performance cannot be beat in heavy magnum loads.

For my 6" GP100 I shoot published maxs of 296/110 with both 158gr jacketed and hard cast SWC with 6" groups at 50 yards behind iron sights and poor vision.

With Casull I prefer the 240 XTP-MAG bullets.

Every published source of reloading data I have ever seen will always recommend magnum primers for any 296/110 loads, including Casull brass that takes rifle primers. Considering they are the same price as standard primers, I cannot understand why so many people insist on using standard primers just to prove the published sources werong. It may make no difference at all or you may find out that on a 10 degree Ohio opening day that that 4 cent component really does matter in some cases. I just kind of assume that published sources do more testing than I do under a wider range of conditions when they make those recommendatons.

Big Yac · January 13, 2014, 10:59 PM

I should have went back and read my original post. I am not trying to push the 454 any more, I have a load that works well, infact I loaded a bunch of them. I asked the question because when I went to buy some more small rifle primers all they had were magnum primers but after trying several other stores I found the small rifle primers I normally use.

On the 357 side the only 158gr bullets they had were Noslers. I bought 250 of them so now I'll have to work on a good shooting 357 load. This actually leads to my final 357 question. I also want a light shooting 357 load to plink with, besides the 296, I have Herco, Longshot, Titegroup, Trail Boss, and some American Select. I can pick up another size of bullet if needed.

AlaskaMike · January 15, 2014, 12:07 PM

Your powder choice for light .357 loads probably depends on how light do you want to go? Midrange .357? Standard .38 Special?

Your Herco would be good for midrange .357 (900 - 1100 fps with your 158 gr. Noslers and 6" barrel). The faster powders would probably be good for loads lighter than that, but I'll defer to others who have experience with them--I use 231 or Clays for my light .357 loads.

Mike

WESHOOT2 · January 15, 2014, 05:03 PM

Do not reduce jacketed bullet loads below published data.

Mix Titegroup and/or TrailBoss with 158g lead bullets.

Dry Creek
Meister
Penn Bullets
local casters ?

January 10, 2014, 05:39 PM	#1
Big Yac Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 422	454 Casull and 357 Mag reloading Questions I've been reloading the 454 Casull for years now using Winchester 296, Hornady 300gr XTP mag bullets and WSR primers. These loads shoot nicely and are very accurate. Would I gain any advantage if I start using magnum primers? I will add that I know you dont use reduced loads with 296 which I dont. My second question is with the 357 magnum, can I use Winchester 296 or would Ramshot Enforcer be better for a nice shooting 158 gr load? __________________ "...and that's the bottom line, because Big Yac said so."

January 10, 2014, 06:40 PM	#3
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	How long is the barrel on your 357? __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

January 10, 2014, 06:45 PM	#4
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	Well if you shot that 454 a LOT in the conditions you folks have had over the past week or so I might say yes. However for the most part I firmly believe the SR primers have plenty of punch in them to light off most any charge of 296 that you would feel comfortable shooting. If you want to give it a try though I wold back off the load a good 3% or even a touch more to start with. Then work back up to see how they shoot against your standard loads. With my Raging Bull I found that the Winchester and CCI SRP's work about the same in the standard flavors and give about 75fps or so more velocity to the same loads using Wolf SR primers. The funny thing is that the Wolf primers give tighter groups even if I back the loads down to about the same FPS. I sure wished I had stocked up on those when I had the chance a few years back. They have turned in some great groups and are about all I use. __________________ LAter, Mike / TX

January 10, 2014, 07:14 PM	#5
Big Yac Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 422	I should say the charge of 296 in the 454 is not a reduced load but not quite max...as you should load with 296. The primers I use are winchester small rifle primers. Was just curious if I'd see a difference with small rifle magnum primers. My combo shoots nicely and has never failed to light. The 357 is a Ruger GP 100 with a 6" barrel. The bullets I have are 158 gr hollow points from Nosler and Hornady. I have available Winchester 296 and Enfrorcer but am willing to try another powder. __________________ "...and that's the bottom line, because Big Yac said so."

January 10, 2014, 09:08 PM	#6
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	I asked about the barrel length because both 296 and Enforcer are slow powders and are best suited for long barrels. 6" is long enough for either. I have no experience with Enforcer, but since it's a Ramshot product, I have no doubt that it's excellent stuff. I have extensive experience with W296. W296 with 158g bullets (assuming they're jacketed) is a great combination. Load away. And yes, use magnum primers, crimp robustly, and don't underload. They'll have serious authority __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

January 10, 2014, 06:20 PM	#2
cdoc42 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,687	I bought my Freedom Arms .454 Casull at a time when the load data supplied was a bit more powerful than anticipated and it blew the extractor rod off the revolver. FA replaced it and the reload data and I've not had any problems since. At that time the cases were used with Large Pistol Primers but they quickly changed to small RIFLE primers. I use both Remington 7-1/2 bench rest and CCI 400 Small Rifle Primers. My 300 gr bullet load uses 31.0 gr of H110 which I understand is exactly the same powder as W296. In the .357 Mag I've not used anything other than 2400, 17.0gr with a 125gr JHP with CCI Small Pistol MAGNUM primer. Although I experiment constantly with the 17 calibers I reload I've never been interested in changing these 2 loads.

January 11, 2014, 02:54 PM	#7
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	357 Magnum 158g hint: AA9 __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

January 13, 2014, 03:13 AM	#8
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	I've been reloading the 454 Casull for years now using Winchester 296, Hornady 300gr XTP mag bullets and WSR primers. These loads shoot nicely and are very accurate. If you like how they shoot -and- they are accurate... Is there really, truly, any tangible way that you'd ever have any idea that a different primer might boost their speed by a little bit? If the net result is an increase in velocity -- would you notice, and/or, would you witness some manner of a gain? Would I gain any advantage if I start using magnum primers? It won't ever fit the guidelines of safe and proper handloading technique to merely switch primers and substitute a different (and hotter!) primer in to an already established load. That's a bad idea and most manuals have very specific warnings against it. Thus, if you follow established safety related guidelines, you'd have to drop the load, and basically re-do your load development with a new primer. So... even -if- changing to a magnum primer might get you even better results than what you have now, there's no safe way for you to TRY that without re-developing the load. And if you re-develop the load... You'll have the answer of "will I gain?" far better by doing it than pretty much anyone could answer with either a guess or even their own hands-on experience. They don't have your revolver. It sounds like you have a great "go-to" handload that gives you what you want right now. I don't see a lot of benefit in trying to improve upon it unless deep down... you aren't actually happy with the load. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

January 13, 2014, 07:40 AM	#9
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	I have loaded both .454 and .357 for years. 296/110 performance cannot be beat in heavy magnum loads. For my 6" GP100 I shoot published maxs of 296/110 with both 158gr jacketed and hard cast SWC with 6" groups at 50 yards behind iron sights and poor vision. With Casull I prefer the 240 XTP-MAG bullets. Every published source of reloading data I have ever seen will always recommend magnum primers for any 296/110 loads, including Casull brass that takes rifle primers. Considering they are the same price as standard primers, I cannot understand why so many people insist on using standard primers just to prove the published sources werong. It may make no difference at all or you may find out that on a 10 degree Ohio opening day that that 4 cent component really does matter in some cases. I just kind of assume that published sources do more testing than I do under a wider range of conditions when they make those recommendatons.

January 13, 2014, 10:59 PM	#10
Big Yac Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 422	I should have went back and read my original post. I am not trying to push the 454 any more, I have a load that works well, infact I loaded a bunch of them. I asked the question because when I went to buy some more small rifle primers all they had were magnum primers but after trying several other stores I found the small rifle primers I normally use. On the 357 side the only 158gr bullets they had were Noslers. I bought 250 of them so now I'll have to work on a good shooting 357 load. This actually leads to my final 357 question. I also want a light shooting 357 load to plink with, besides the 296, I have Herco, Longshot, Titegroup, Trail Boss, and some American Select. I can pick up another size of bullet if needed. __________________ "...and that's the bottom line, because Big Yac said so."

January 15, 2014, 12:07 PM	#11
AlaskaMike Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 941	Your powder choice for light .357 loads probably depends on how light do you want to go? Midrange .357? Standard .38 Special? Your Herco would be good for midrange .357 (900 - 1100 fps with your 158 gr. Noslers and 6" barrel). The faster powders would probably be good for loads lighter than that, but I'll defer to others who have experience with them--I use 231 or Clays for my light .357 loads. Mike

January 15, 2014, 05:03 PM	#12
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	Do not reduce jacketed bullet loads below published data. Mix Titegroup and/or TrailBoss with 158g lead bullets. Dry Creek Meister Penn Bullets local casters ? __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"