need help with a 6.5mm carcano rifle

[bearhunter_canada]

i just recently purchased what i beleive is a 6.5mm rifle wich is i,m told a carcano.now i,ve done some checking up and i cant seem to find wich is the one i have.it is stamped 6.5mm on the rear sight,on the right side of the barrel it,s stamped 1941 xix,on top of barrel it has a crown like drawing and just below R.E TERNI,on left side of barrel it has what i beleive a serial number BA461.it has a 21 inch barrel,fix sights and side sling attachement on stock.althought i,ve been shooting it i,m missing the clip to hold the bullets.i bought the rifle for 60$ and had to pay 45$ for a box of shell wich was very hard to find.NORMA 6.5x52 156 grains,10.1 grams, no on box is 16535.
what i would like to know is wich model rifle do i own ,wich is best ammo for accuracy and effective kill power,how does it compare to a 270 with same load at 200 or 300 yards.is there any way i could have a scope mounted on this rifle for open country deer hunting and last where can i find a clip.someone please help me on this .thank you very much.

i had to join this forum to be able to ask all this ,i hope it was a good move ....lol

[Jim Watson]

Clips on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Italian-Carcan...QQcmdZViewItem

or any of several selling sites like
http://www.colbubbie.com/index.asp?P...ROD&ProdID=353

6.5 Italian is substantially less powerful than a .270, about like a .30-30 with a better bullet. Still ok for deer as far as you can get good hits.

I do not now know of a scope mount for a Carcano, there have probably been some made that you could find. Mount and installation would likely be more than you paid for the rifle and expensive Norma ammunition.

Hornady lists 6.5 Carcano ammunition, if you can get it there.

Sounds like you have the standard military carbine; the rifle has about a 30" barrel.

[resugun]

A Weaver side-mount w/rings is available for your military Carcano. Contact Brownells in Montezuma, Iowa 1-800-741-0015. In case you don't know, a Carcano was the rifle used by Lee Harvey Oswald to assasinate President Kennedy. The Carcano, never known for exceptional accuracy, it is still a wonder that Oswald was able to make such an accurate shot from a sixth-story window on a moving target.

[carcanoshooter]

i recommend you buy norma, or have the ammo custom made. i have a sporterized carcano, and i use the norma ammo. it is the best, but it comes at a price, i pay 40 bucks for 20 rounds, but i only use those for hunting, for anything else, buy the hornaday metric ammo, they sell 6.5 carcano ammo that is very good, just not as good as norma

[James K]

In my limited experience, the Carcano rifles and carbines are very accurate, certainly as accurate as most military rifles. The long heavy (relatively) bullet has excellent stability and I have loaded the 139 grain pointed bullet with good results, 2" groups at 100 yds. They are one of the very few rifles to ever have gain twist, meaning the pitch of the rifling increases from the breech to the muzzle.

FWIW, and in spite of a lot of nonsense from people trying to prove something, a Carcano is certainly capable of keeping its shots in an 8" diameter circle at 60 yards.

Jim

[ljcortez]

if you go to ebay and put in search bar 6.5 carcano there's a few clips on there right now for sale and there6.5 carcano bullets for sale on gunbroker.com

[TEDDY]

sarco has clips and GRAFS has privi partizian ammo.much cheaper than norma.
whats with the kennady connection,forget that. and besides it was not that much of a shot as it was tops 80 yrds.

[Tom2]

Of course you realise that if you drill holes in it to mount sights or a scope, you degrade or destroy any collector value it might have, if in fact, it is in it's original military configuration without modifications. I think myself that I would sporterise a Mosin Nagant before a Carcano, in nice condition. MN's are much more common right now and shoot a much more powerful cartridge. Plenty of inexpensive surplus and European soft point ammo for them right now. And they do make scope mounts for them. Something like a mount that fits in place of the original rear sight and uses a long eye relief scope. An inexpensive surplus Mauser would be even better to sporterise. But I suppose if you take game with the Carcano, it will be something you can boast about as I suspect few ever do.

[DocSmokey]

I have been given, by my elder Mother-In-Law, a U.N model 1941 BARETTA GARDONE CARCANO 6.5 small rifle with attached Bayonet which I believe is a CARCANO 1938 CAVALRY CARBINE 6.5MM.
It has matching U.N. serial numbers on the stock and behind the rear sight and is dated 1941.. The numbers by the sight are...1941-X1X and the matching U.N. numbers on the stock & by the rear sight are...U.N. 7784...
It also has a Baretta Gardone 1941 indent seal on the stock.
I would like to know something about this little rifle, the availability of magazines/stripper clips and if this rifle has any value.. Any info will be helpful, Thanks...
SMOKEY

[Masteraceman123]

A very accurate rifle used by the Italians to eliminate enemy forward observers, but it uses a .268 caliber bullet, if you will check most ammo sold for it those are slightly smaller, leading to degraded accuracy. Hornady ammo is the correct size, try that, then Norma.

[Pigeon408]

Most of the hype about Carcano inaccuracy pertains to Bubbas cutting down the long barrel model to make a sporter. By doing this, it removes the gain twist portion making it pathetically inaccurate with any but short light weight projectiles.

I handload .268" diameter Hornady bullets using Graf brass with great results in the 6.5x52 model 91 rifle.

My real surprise came when I bought a Type I in 6.5 x 50. With the long 32" barrel and .264" bullets it is a tack driver with the original open sights. Unfortunately this rifle has a cut down stock with turned down bolt. Most of the Type I Carcanos I have looked over have mint bores, as does mine.

[eppe1]

i have just bought an old carcano im working on it i took the bolt apart and now cant get it back together any ideas or help

[James K]

Most of the nonsense that the Carcano is inaccurate or has no power comes from people wanting to "prove" that Oswald could not have killed JFK. One man of my acquaintance, who should have known better, assured me that a Carcano wouldn't shoot that far (60 yards), thus "proving" his pet conspiracy theory.

Others, citing the lackluster performance of Italian armies in WWII (a war Italy was dragged into by Mussolini against the wishes of most Italians), say the Carcano was worthless. In fact, it was as good as many of the military rifles of that type; the Dutch, Greeks, Portuguese, Japanese and Swedes all adopted 6.5 rifles in that era, though some, including the Italians, later switched to a larger caliber.

Jim

[ISC]

My Carcano is the most inaccurate rifle in my collection. It's a M38 calavary carbine. Short barrel, fixed sights, 6.5 mm caliber, folding bayonet.

I've shot original miltary ammo through it as well as reloads made from mannlicher shoenaur (SP?) brass.

What I've read said that the gain twist rifling was abandoned on rifles made in WWII since it did little if anything to increase accuracy, but greatly complicated manufacture.

[madd trapper]

I bought a Carcano M38 several years ago for sixty dollars. The top of the receiver is stamped by some importer made in italy. I bought a scope rail and slide scope rings from Kalinka optics .com . I drilled and tap the side of the receiver and notch some of the stock away to allow the scopemount to slide on or off. The rifle has the ballistics of a 30.30 but with a better bullet for more penetration. I would limited your distance on deer to about a hundred yards. I plan on using my carcano this deer season in the thick forest areas. Good Luck.

[Webleymkv]

There are a lot of misconceptions about Carcanos that contribute to their poor reputation. Probably chiefly among these is improperly loaded ammunition. Carcanos are somewhat unique among 6.5mm rifles in that they have .268 bores. Unfortunately, the vast majority of the 6.5 Carcano ammunition that has been made over the years (Norma, Prvi Partizan, FNM, various reloads) are are loaded with the more common .264 diameter bullets. While many Carcanos will shoot these undersize bullets acceptably, many will not. The only two types of ammunition that I'm aware of that is available with .268 bullets are Hornady and Italian surplus. Italian surplus, IMHO, should only be bought for the clips if it comes on them as it is Berdan primed, corrosive, prone to both misfire and hangfire (I got multiple misfires per magazine when I tried it), and typically just as expensive if not more so than new production ammo. Hornady is unquestionably the best ammo as it's loaded with proper diamter bullets (Hornady also sells .268 160grn RNSP component bullets for the reloader). Prvi Partizan and FNM are OK, but they're loaded with undersize bullets so they may or may not shoot well (if anything, they're a source for boxer-primed brass). I see no reason to buy Norma unless it's all that's available as it's the most expensive and is also loaded with undersize bullets.

The other issue that plauges Carcanos' reputations are the crudely made wartime guns. Remember, the WWII started going badly for the Italians fairly early on and this is reflected in the quality of Carcanos produced during that time (they're comparable to the "last ditch" Arisakas and Mausers), early or pre-war Carcanos are of much better quality. Generally, the M1891 Long Rifles and M1891 Calvarly Carbines will be of higher quality than the M38 Short Rifles as the former two were produced in greater numbers before the war. My '91 Calvary Carbine was made in 1936 and is of similar quality to most other military rifles of the period. Generally 7.35mm rifles are less desirable than 6.5mm ones both because ammunition is even more scarce, and because the majority of 7.35mm guns were wartime production.

The only really legitimate complaint that I can find with the design of the Carcano is the sights. Later wartime guns are often found with rather crude fixed sights and my Calvary Carbine has somewhat coarse sights which are graduated at a very optomistic 300-1500 meters (an awfully long shot for a rifle with a 17" barrel and correspondingly short sight radius). Even so, with a bit of Kentucky windage I'm still able to shoot the rifle reasonably well out to 100 yards. I am fortunate that while Hornady unquestionably shoots the best, Prvi Partizan shoots acceptably from my rifle even with it's undersized bullets.

Finally, occasionally one will encounter a M38 Short Rifle chambered in 8x57 JS Mauser. DO NOT FIRE THESE RIFLES WITH SURPLUS OR IMPORTED 8MM MAUSER AMMO!!! These rifles were a desparate attempt by the Germans for a substitute-standard rifle that used their standard issue ammo and they are not up to the pressure of full-power 8mm ammo and there have been numerous catastrophic failures (i.e. KB's) reported when they're fired with surplus ammo, particularly Turkish surplus. Also, clips for the rifles are pretty well impossible to find (though I have read of people modifying standard Carcano clips to work). If you must shoot one of these, use either light handloads or the lighter loaded U.S. manufactured commercial ammo such as Remington Core-Lokts.

[SuperTodd]

That was my first gun, my dad traded 4 boxes of 30-06 for it. He took his ist deer with one- my cousin has that gun a 38 cav carbine.. I took my first deer with mine. its a model 91 cav. carbine but someone ground the bayonet mounting off-professonal job, and put a taller front site blade in. other than that it is all orginal. I found mine liked 120-140 grn bullets. It did not shoot good with norma 156 grn bullets.

[Millbilly]

I have an old carcano rifle.....I have shot 12 inch groups with it at 50 yards....Thats about as good as I can get with it.........now its just for lookin at not shootin....

[rob619]

I recently bought a itilian 6.5mm stamped 1941 xix,on top of barrel it has a crown like drawing and just below R.E TERNI.. I found the clip for it know know I need to know it it 6.5mm carcano ammo or is it 6.5x52mm.. I inlcuded pictures of this rifle in the thread... I would love to shoot it however till I get the right ammo.. I do not what to take that chance... I even thought about useing it has a deer gun..

[rob619]

Some more picture I took of the rifle

[James K]

6.5 Carcano and 6.5x52 are the same cartridge under different names.

Jim

[Magnum Wheel Man]

mine is a Beretta manufacture... is it any "better"... more "collectable" than the others ??? BTW... when I bought mine, I got 6-8 boxes of milsurp ammo & a box of Norma, as well as 100 empty boxer primed cases, & a set of loading dies, as well as a handfull of empty clips... I stripped off the clips of the Milsurp ammo & tabled that for gun show sales... a couple of the clips I have are brass, the balance are steel... are one or the other prefered, more functional, or more collectable ???

[James K]

Like the U.S. with the M1903, Italy went from brass to steel clips in WWII because they were cheaper and the material was easier to get.

Plus, of course, brass could be better used in cartridge cases, electrical equipment, etc.

Jim

[T. O'Heir]

Please join us at http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/

[publius]

this is a great site, please stay around, but you will get better info on this at surplusrifle.com