The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 30, 2017, 06:53 AM   #1
OhioGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 11, 2016
Posts: 1,089
First Sig M17 pistols now fielded

https://www.army.mil/article/197497/...handgun_system

I found it odd that their publicity photo depicts soldiers holding the gun with their support hand in a very low position.

Does the army instruct people to shoot with their hands positioned like this? I've shot with this sort of grip before and definitely cannot control recoil very well.

More photos: https://www.military.com/kitup/2017/...un-system.html

One is even using the "teacup" grip.

Last edited by OhioGuy; November 30, 2017 at 07:49 AM.
OhioGuy is offline  
Old November 30, 2017, 08:35 AM   #2
ThesNazud
Member
 
Join Date: June 3, 2013
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 98
First thought on that, Publicity Photo... I would think the photographer was like, "We cant see the gun too well, is there any way you could lower your other hand so we can get a good look at it???"
ThesNazud is offline  
Old November 30, 2017, 10:53 AM   #3
Fishbed77
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2010
Posts: 4,862
Quote:
"The specific performance improvements from MHS over the M9 include better accuracy, tighter dispersion, and better ergonomics, which combined result in a far more lethal pistol."
Far more lethal? Ummm. Sure.
Fishbed77 is offline  
Old November 30, 2017, 12:11 PM   #4
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 12,181
They have to justify it somehow.

I think the P320 will be fine. But I think a number of options would have been fine. I’m at the point of saturation when it comes to talking about this pistol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
TunnelRat is offline  
Old November 30, 2017, 12:20 PM   #5
OhioGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 11, 2016
Posts: 1,089
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishbed77 View Post
Far more lethal? Ummm. Sure.
Not if they keep holding it like that!
OhioGuy is offline  
Old November 30, 2017, 05:16 PM   #6
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,486
Silly.
If you are authorized a pistol, you will get the gun, holster, magazine pouch, magazines.
If you are lucky, you will get to pick which size grip "module" suits your hand.
The rest of that kibble ; other grips, other holster brackets, will stay on the shelf.
"If I issue, it, I won't HAVE it." heard from many a supply sergeant.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old November 30, 2017, 05:47 PM   #7
GarandTd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2016
Location: Rural PA
Posts: 1,639
What's up with the funky mottled finish.
__________________
22lr, 20 gauge, 8mm Mauser, 35 Remington, 30-06, 5.56x45/223, 9mm, 380acp
GarandTd is offline  
Old December 1, 2017, 09:26 AM   #8
arquebus357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 19, 2016
Location: Atlanta, Georgia area
Posts: 455
Actually, the fire control module in my Ruger American is better made than the P320's.

arquebus357 is offline  
Old December 1, 2017, 11:55 AM   #9
Fishbed77
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2010
Posts: 4,862
Quote:
What's up with the funky mottled finish.
I think they are just slathered in rust preventative grease/oil from the factory.
Fishbed77 is offline  
Old December 1, 2017, 09:26 PM   #10
BOOGIE the oily
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2017
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 110
Please forgive my ignorance, but I need to ask this question:
In this image:



you can see the shooter with his left thumb hugging his right hand, behind the gun. Is this a proper way to do it? Seems to me like a good way to get a knuckle shave...
__________________
"The world is my country, mankind is my brethren, and to do good is my religion." (Thomas Paine)

"Alcohol doesn't solve anything, but then again, neither does milk."
BOOGIE the oily is offline  
Old December 1, 2017, 10:15 PM   #11
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 12,181
First Sig M17 pistols now fielded

https://www.military.com/daily-news/...gun-system.htm



Quote:
The MHS is designed to provide soldiers with more of an offensive weapon than the Cold-War era M9 pistol it is replacing, according to Daryl Eastlick, the deputy of the Lethality Branch at the Maneuver Center of Excellence at Fort Benning, Georgia.


Well thankfully the M17 is more offensive than the M9. Interesting how they plan to be equipping it to far more soldiers than was typical in the past.

Last edited by TunnelRat; December 2, 2017 at 10:40 AM.
TunnelRat is offline  
Old December 1, 2017, 10:54 PM   #12
James K
Member In Memoriam
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 24,383
" Is this a proper way to do it? Seems to me like a good way to get a knuckle shave... Is this a proper way to do it? Seems to me like a good way to get a knuckle shave..."

It isn't the way I would hold that gun, but ifit works for him, I won't second guess it.

I am not sure about the idea of issuing pistols to almost everybody, though. Soldiers through the ages have tended to "lose" items that added to their burden without showing a positive return. I suspect a lot of pistols will fall into that category if the carry choice is a pistol or extra rations.

Jim
James K is offline  
Old December 1, 2017, 10:55 PM   #13
jr24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 29, 2011
Posts: 870
Those are some terrible shooting grips.

Gotta love the hyperbole, much like when the Brits switched frim the Hi Power to the Glock 17 and ranted that now they could "safely carry with a round chambered" with the Glock.

Uhh, what?
jr24 is offline  
Old December 2, 2017, 02:01 AM   #14
Sequins
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2014
Posts: 394
I think thumbs forward is the best grip but that's a publicity photo and showing the slide is more important than accuracy in a still media pic. I cant wait to get a p320 personally, I'm going to wait a year for any other launch bugs to be resolved and then dive in. The US army tends to pick exceptional handguns- I love the 1911 and the 92FS.
Sequins is offline  
Old December 2, 2017, 03:46 AM   #15
mete
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 14, 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,575
jr24, the Brits and others have required pistols to be carried empty chamber for many years . The Sykes -Fairborn technique did also which I never understood. They never questioned the added time to draw and load !
__________________
And Watson , bring your revolver !
mete is offline  
Old December 2, 2017, 11:14 AM   #16
tipoc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 11, 2004
Location: Redwood City, Ca.
Posts: 4,114
I never make too much of pics like this, the main reason is that unless you ask someone to "please hold the gun in your normal firing position so I can take a pic of you holding the gun" and strike a pose, you can't be sure that that's what you are getting.

A pic captures a split second of a person moving. It can't show what they did a split second before or after and can't show motion. So if a fella said, "don't hold your gun like this" and they took a pic at that moment, well somewhere someone will ask, "Does the Army really teach them that?".

Nice guns.

tipoc
__________________
1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger till you are ready to shoot.
4. Identify your target and know what is beyond it.
tipoc is offline  
Old December 2, 2017, 11:27 AM   #17
Brownstone322
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2017
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by TunnelRat View Post
They have to justify it somehow.

I think the P320 will be fine. But I think a number of options would have been fine. I’m at the point of saturation when it comes to talking about this pistol.
Amen to that. The Army was due for a new pistol, and they really had two choices:

• Stick with the Beretta ecosystem.

• Move to a more-modern platform.

What else could they do? Modern polymer guns from the major manufacturers are simply good. The P320 is fine, but, as you said, I suspect that other options would've served just fine as well. (I can personally vouch for the Glock and S&W M&P platforms, but the list goes on.)

I love the Beretta, I own an M9, and I love to shoot it at the range. But I wouldn't wanna tote that thing around (A3 included), not with all the Plastic Fantastics out there.
__________________
"To me it doesn't matter if your hopes are dreams are shattered." -- Noel Gallagher
Brownstone322 is offline  
Old December 4, 2017, 07:39 PM   #18
Viper225
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2009
Location: SC Missouri
Posts: 663
A local Sheriff's Dept has went to the Sig 320. I got to handle a Full Size 320 with Medium size grip this last Saturday at our Defensive Pistol Match. I really liked the feel of it in my hand. The Trigger Pull and Trigger Reset felt like a Glock with a good trigger job.

Sig has had a couple issues with them firing when dropped. I sure hope the fix is not messing up the Terrific Trigger on them.

Bob
Viper225 is offline  
Old December 4, 2017, 07:52 PM   #19
qwiksdraw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 23, 2012
Posts: 534
Quote:
... Sig has had a couple issues with them firing when dropped. I sure hope the fix is not messing up the Terrific Trigger on them.
The drop issue got out of control so fast there was no way Sig Sauer could respond other than they did; the p320 was always safe.

However, I took advantage of the free upgrade on both of my P320s. Sig took an awesome trigger and made it awesomer.
__________________
Quote:
"I Miss America."
qwiksdraw is offline  
Old December 6, 2017, 10:03 PM   #20
IMightBeWrong
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 22, 2009
Posts: 814
Would a lot of other pistols have been good choices? Absolutely. Is the P320 a great choice as well? Absolutely. I think it’s a great choice.
__________________
"Intelligence is nothing more than discussing things with others. Limitless wisdom comes of this." - 山本 常朝
IMightBeWrong is offline  
Old December 7, 2017, 12:16 AM   #21
USMCGrunt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2000
Location: Somewhere in 14T NT
Posts: 730
Fear not America. You can rest easy knowing that the US Marines still use a normal grip!
USMCGrunt is offline  
Old December 7, 2017, 01:48 AM   #22
Model12Win
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2012
Posts: 5,854
Thank god the M9 will soon be a distant memory, a road bump in military handgun history, sandwiched between the phenomenal, legendary M1911A1 and the modern masterpiece of engineering that is the M17.
Model12Win is offline  
Old December 7, 2017, 02:06 AM   #23
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 12,181
^I get that you're being sarcastic, but you've said the same thing a number of times now across various threads. I'm all for beating a dead horse, but even I find it gets old after awhile.
__________________
Know the status of your weapon
Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges
Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture
Maintain situational awareness
TunnelRat is offline  
Old December 7, 2017, 02:48 PM   #24
jr24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 29, 2011
Posts: 870
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipoc View Post
I never make too much of pics like this, the main reason is that unless you ask someone to "please hold the gun in your normal firing position so I can take a pic of you holding the gun" and strike a pose, you can't be sure that that's what you are getting.

A pic captures a split second of a person moving. It can't show what they did a split second before or after and can't show motion. So if a fella said, "don't hold your gun like this" and they took a pic at that moment, well somewhere someone will ask, "Does the Army really teach them that?".

Nice guns.

tipoc
Sadly from the video there are some poor grips in the 101 (some good ones too) and with the one fella you can really see how it causes significantly more muzzle flip.

https://youtu.be/sc-pQH9GSxA
jr24 is offline  
Old December 7, 2017, 02:50 PM   #25
jr24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 29, 2011
Posts: 870
Quote:
Originally Posted by mete View Post
jr24, the Brits and others have required pistols to be carried empty chamber for many years . The Sykes -Fairborn technique did also which I never understood. They never questioned the added time to draw and load !
I am well aware. The article I recall was implying the Glock 17 was somehow safer.to carry than a BHP with a round chambered.

I submit it is not.
jr24 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.08979 seconds with 8 queries