Share your .327 Federal Mag load data - Page 7

Real Gun · November 24, 2017, 10:45 AM

Advice I follow is to use small rifle primers on the hotter stuff.

Sevens · November 24, 2017, 12:26 PM

I suppose I would question the application of the term "minor" when the leakage is from a high pressure cartridge case. I have successfully used more than 4,000 S&B primers in the last 2 years and have had zero issues. I have never used them in .327 Federal.

I'm always for and have always been staunchly on the side of "freedom and experimentation" but before I get there, I'm always doing a simple risk/reward analysis.

What do I gain by using an S&B primer in .327 Federal Mag?

What do I risk when I elect to use a non-magnum primer in a 45k psi max cartridge?

I continue to use both CCI-400 small rifle and Win-SR primers. Question #1 just never has any answers that approach the answers for question #2.

FWIW, I'm still goofing with the Xtreme 123gr rifle slug... so yes, experimenting rates high on my list.

jimbob86 · December 23, 2017, 03:19 PM

I'm also getting ready to start re-stuffing spent .327 cases ..... what's everybody's favorite powder for use with 100gr XTP's?

Real Gun · December 23, 2017, 04:11 PM

First I had to find a data source, and a common powder among them was AA#9. I bought a 4-pounder and have been doing well with it. I use the 12.0 gr load with XTP and 11.0 gr with 95-100 gr lead RNFP.

jimbob86 · December 24, 2017, 10:52 AM

Looks like AA#9 and H110?

Sevens · December 24, 2017, 01:50 PM

Hahaha, this thread exists so that adventurous handloaders can share what they have tried and the results they saw. There are four pages of discussion on what powders we have used!

I find almost the entire thread to be extremely interesting as someone who handloads .327 Federal -- if you are just about to begin with it, why not read the whole thread?

jimbob86 · December 24, 2017, 04:24 PM

Oh, I have read it... though not all 7 pages at once .... and did not take notes.... near as I can recall, AA#9 and H110 were the top powders for the 100gr XTP.....

Real Gun · December 25, 2017, 08:58 AM

On the subject of H110, I am not so sure there is a proper primer for use in 327 (small rifle magnum).

Sevens · December 25, 2017, 10:13 AM

Small rifle primer for .327 Federal AND small rifle (non-magnum) for H110, both are perfect for the application.

Real Gun · December 25, 2017, 10:29 AM

H110 data for other cartridges typically calls for a magnum primer. A small rifle primer has a stouter cup, but I think that's the only difference from small pistol. We have other magnum powder choices that are believed compatible with small rifle primers.

This is likely only an issue when loading toward max. Most of the max loads I see are rated well below the 45k mentioned for the 327 Federal Magnum.

Sevens · December 25, 2017, 08:06 PM

I've never heard the suggestion that a more stout anvil exists -- I've been of the thought that a harder, thicker cup (to contain pressure) and a hotter, more intense flame of a longer duration are the differences of a small rifle primer over a small pistol, but I don't make them so I'll likely never know.

We've been offered evidence directly from ATK that their small pistol magnum primer and their small rifle (non-magnum) primer are exactly the same product in two different packages.

H110 has always carried the magnum pistol primer recommendation, but it isn't typically used in many rifle applications. I looked at two rifle data publications, both from Hodgdon (since they market this powder) and no, they don't recommend a magnum small rifle primer in either .22 Hornet or .30 Carbine, two genuine rifle rounds that are commonly loaded with H110.

For what it's worth, Hodgdon data for .327 Federal and H110 recommends the small pistol magnun primer.

Real Gun · December 26, 2017, 09:38 AM

my more stout= your harder, thicker

ATK's own Speer manual says that 327 factory ammo uses small rifle primers and that [small rifle magnum] is "neither required not recommended". The idea that ATK can be quoted as "small pistol magnum is the same as small rifle" would not apply to all brands.

Sevens · December 26, 2017, 01:17 PM

Your more stout, in your words, was a description of the ANVIL, not the primer cup. We like a stout primer cup in any/every high pressure round because it is a safeguard against the potential for leaking pressure at the most weak point in cartridge brass.

Again, nobody is arguing the use of small rifle magnum primers, neither in .327 Federal nor in any cartridge that H110 uses.

Agreed that what applies to ATK primers doesn't necessarily apply to other brands -- much like any assertion that a blanket "small rifle magnum" is some sort of bad or detrimental primer for use in either .327 Federal or a load built with H110 powder.

Real Gun · December 26, 2017, 01:52 PM

Quote:

I've never heard the suggestion that a more stout anvil exists

Fixed to read "cup".

Real Gun · December 26, 2017, 01:54 PM

We are highlighting why it is not a good idea to mess with the hammer springs in a 327 Federal Magnum revolver, should it be necessary to fire a primer with a heavier cup.

Sevens · December 26, 2017, 02:27 PM

Agree, depending on your requirements and/or the role of the revolver. But that would be good advice for any firearm in a role where the shot may be critical.

I don't believe that a small rifle magnum primer is any liability in a .327 Federal load, in any platform, with even H110. I also don't believe that it is a necessity. I do believe that a small rifle primer is absolutely a necessity in .327 Federal loads.

RKG · December 29, 2017, 09:16 AM

I refer the OP to Brian Pearce's article in Handloader #294, February 2015. Using empiracal data and extensive personal experience, the author answers all of your questions.

For what it may be worth, I have two pet loads for my .327: a 115 gr. Penn Bullets SWCL pushed by Unique to about 1200 fps (15' instrument) and the 100 gr. Hornady XTP, pushed by A9 to about 1400 (ditto). CCI non-magnum small pistol primers are used for both.

Real Gun · December 29, 2017, 01:06 PM

A 100 gr XTP at 1400 fps is merely the starting load, so no, I wouldn't expect a small rifle primer (heavier cup) to be necessary. However, small rifle is what the load calls for, and who should feel qualified to really second guess that?

RKG · December 30, 2017, 10:59 AM

Read the cited article.

Real Gun · December 30, 2017, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Read the cited article.

I have had a copy for some years now, reread it, and am not sure what point you had hoped to make. My comment about load levels was based more on Federal's own data via Speer, another ATK division. Hornady's 100 gr XTP loads place 1400 fps results farther up the chain.

Sevens · December 30, 2017, 05:05 PM

Typically, the short hand "OP" in discussion forums means specifically either "original post" or "original poster" so I'm a little confused at what you are trying to solve by citing an article (without adding a link... I don't have that magazine) and mentioning the OP.

The original post in this thread predates your article by four years and I am the OP.

This thread exists by and for handloaders of the .327 that want to share the things they've done -- successes and failures.

RKG · December 30, 2017, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sevens

Typically, the short hand "OP" in discussion forums means specifically either "original post" or "original poster" so I'm a little confused at what you are trying to solve by citing an article (without adding a link... I don't have that magazine) and mentioning the OP.

The original post in this thread predates your article by four years and I am the OP.

This thread exists by and for handloaders of the .327 that want to share the things they've done -- successes and failures.

Quite right. I was actually responding to Post #134, which was the first unread for me. My brain equated that to OP. And it isn't even a full moon!

ss30378 · December 30, 2017, 11:25 PM

5.5" single seven
S&B SP primer
Federal cases.

Power Pistol loads
60gr xtp 10.0g PP 1.440" OAL= 1952fps
(200fps extreme spread, weak neck tension suspected. Will turn expander ball down .0015" and retest. A couple rounds were in the 2040fps range others were mid 1800s)

100gr xtp 8.0gr PP 1.470" OAL= 1459fps
(Mid range load, very accurate, 18fps extreme spread)

75gr rim rock rnfp 6.0gr PP 1.415" OAL= 1396fps
(My squirrel hunting load, low recoil, very accurate 24fps extreme spread)

AA9 load
125gr rim rock swc 10.8gr AA9 1.450" OAL= 1490fps
(My bigger critter load, accurate, stout recoil, 20fps extreme spread)

I'll be testing 300mp powder next with the 100xtp and 125swc in the next few weeks. I'll try SP, SR, and SRM primers to see if there's a noticeable difference. I'll post my results for y'all to see.l

Sevens · December 31, 2017, 01:03 AM

NOTE on the above posted 60gr Gold Dot load...

This was specifically warned against to me by Ben Amonette(ballistician) at ATK. In words more eloquent than I happen to have at the moment, he explained that extreme force on a lightly constructed bullet run FAR outside it's design scope will warp the shape of the bullet as it makes the leap from cylinder to forcing cone and damage to forcing cone over time is the result.

Similarly, Speer and Hornady offer XTP-Mag and specific (Deep Curl...?) slugs in the .452" size for use at the 60k PSI range of the .460 Magnum to hopefully keep folks from wrecking their revolvers with lightly constructed .45 Colt bullets at velocities WAY beyond their ability.

You may get away with the 60 grain XTP at 1,800+ FPS in a lever action rifle or any .327 Federal arm that doesn't have a flash gap, but you're risking damage to your Single Seven with those bullets at that speed.

Inspect and report back if you can find damage and/or if you elect to continue.

TruthTellers · December 31, 2017, 01:22 AM

If you got 2000+ fps out of a 5.5 inch barrel, I would wonder what you'd get out of a lever action and then I'd wonder if the jacket for those .32 ACP bullets would have issues being driven down a bore at those speeds.

I think 75-85 grains is plenty light enough for the .327.

November 24, 2017, 10:45 AM	#151
Real Gun Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: SC Posts: 2,743	Advice I follow is to use small rifle primers on the hotter stuff. __________________ Not an expert, just a reporter.

November 24, 2017, 12:26 PM	#152
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	I suppose I would question the application of the term "minor" when the leakage is from a high pressure cartridge case. I have successfully used more than 4,000 S&B primers in the last 2 years and have had zero issues. I have never used them in .327 Federal. I'm always for and have always been staunchly on the side of "freedom and experimentation" but before I get there, I'm always doing a simple risk/reward analysis. What do I gain by using an S&B primer in .327 Federal Mag? What do I risk when I elect to use a non-magnum primer in a 45k psi max cartridge? I continue to use both CCI-400 small rifle and Win-SR primers. Question #1 just never has any answers that approach the answers for question #2. FWIW, I'm still goofing with the Xtreme 123gr rifle slug... so yes, experimenting rates high on my list. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

December 23, 2017, 04:11 PM	#154
Real Gun Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: SC Posts: 2,743	First I had to find a data source, and a common powder among them was AA#9. I bought a 4-pounder and have been doing well with it. I use the 12.0 gr load with XTP and 11.0 gr with 95-100 gr lead RNFP. __________________ Not an expert, just a reporter.

December 24, 2017, 01:50 PM	#156
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Hahaha, this thread exists so that adventurous handloaders can share what they have tried and the results they saw. There are four pages of discussion on what powders we have used! I find almost the entire thread to be extremely interesting as someone who handloads .327 Federal -- if you are just about to begin with it, why not read the whole thread? __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

December 25, 2017, 08:58 AM	#158
Real Gun Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: SC Posts: 2,743	On the subject of H110, I am not so sure there is a proper primer for use in 327 (small rifle magnum). __________________ Not an expert, just a reporter.

December 23, 2017, 03:19 PM	#153
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	I'm also getting ready to start re-stuffing spent .327 cases ..... what's everybody's favorite powder for use with 100gr XTP's?

December 24, 2017, 10:52 AM	#155
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	Looks like AA#9 and H110?

December 24, 2017, 04:24 PM	#157
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	Oh, I have read it... though not all 7 pages at once .... and did not take notes.... near as I can recall, AA#9 and H110 were the top powders for the 100gr XTP.....

December 25, 2017, 10:13 AM	#159
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Small rifle primer for .327 Federal AND small rifle (non-magnum) for H110, both are perfect for the application. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

December 25, 2017, 10:29 AM	#160
Real Gun Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: SC Posts: 2,743	H110 data for other cartridges typically calls for a magnum primer. A small rifle primer has a stouter cup, but I think that's the only difference from small pistol. We have other magnum powder choices that are believed compatible with small rifle primers. This is likely only an issue when loading toward max. Most of the max loads I see are rated well below the 45k mentioned for the 327 Federal Magnum. __________________ Not an expert, just a reporter. Last edited by Real Gun; December 26, 2017 at 01:49 PM.

December 25, 2017, 08:06 PM	#161
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	I've never heard the suggestion that a more stout anvil exists -- I've been of the thought that a harder, thicker cup (to contain pressure) and a hotter, more intense flame of a longer duration are the differences of a small rifle primer over a small pistol, but I don't make them so I'll likely never know. We've been offered evidence directly from ATK that their small pistol magnum primer and their small rifle (non-magnum) primer are exactly the same product in two different packages. H110 has always carried the magnum pistol primer recommendation, but it isn't typically used in many rifle applications. I looked at two rifle data publications, both from Hodgdon (since they market this powder) and no, they don't recommend a magnum small rifle primer in either .22 Hornet or .30 Carbine, two genuine rifle rounds that are commonly loaded with H110. For what it's worth, Hodgdon data for .327 Federal and H110 recommends the small pistol magnun primer. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

December 26, 2017, 09:38 AM	#162
Real Gun Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: SC Posts: 2,743	my more stout= your harder, thicker ATK's own Speer manual says that 327 factory ammo uses small rifle primers and that [small rifle magnum] is "neither required not recommended". The idea that ATK can be quoted as "small pistol magnum is the same as small rifle" would not apply to all brands. __________________ Not an expert, just a reporter.

December 26, 2017, 01:17 PM	#163
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Your more stout, in your words, was a description of the ANVIL, not the primer cup. We like a stout primer cup in any/every high pressure round because it is a safeguard against the potential for leaking pressure at the most weak point in cartridge brass. Again, nobody is arguing the use of small rifle magnum primers, neither in .327 Federal nor in any cartridge that H110 uses. Agreed that what applies to ATK primers doesn't necessarily apply to other brands -- much like any assertion that a blanket "small rifle magnum" is some sort of bad or detrimental primer for use in either .327 Federal or a load built with H110 powder. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

December 26, 2017, 01:54 PM	#165
Real Gun Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: SC Posts: 2,743	We are highlighting why it is not a good idea to mess with the hammer springs in a 327 Federal Magnum revolver, should it be necessary to fire a primer with a heavier cup. __________________ Not an expert, just a reporter.

December 26, 2017, 02:27 PM	#166
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Agree, depending on your requirements and/or the role of the revolver. But that would be good advice for any firearm in a role where the shot may be critical. I don't believe that a small rifle magnum primer is any liability in a .327 Federal load, in any platform, with even H110. I also don't believe that it is a necessity. I do believe that a small rifle primer is absolutely a necessity in .327 Federal loads. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

December 29, 2017, 09:16 AM	#167
RKG Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2009 Location: Boston Posts: 562	I refer the OP to Brian Pearce's article in Handloader #294, February 2015. Using empiracal data and extensive personal experience, the author answers all of your questions. For what it may be worth, I have two pet loads for my .327: a 115 gr. Penn Bullets SWCL pushed by Unique to about 1200 fps (15' instrument) and the 100 gr. Hornady XTP, pushed by A9 to about 1400 (ditto). CCI non-magnum small pistol primers are used for both.

December 29, 2017, 01:06 PM	#168
Real Gun Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: SC Posts: 2,743	A 100 gr XTP at 1400 fps is merely the starting load, so no, I wouldn't expect a small rifle primer (heavier cup) to be necessary. However, small rifle is what the load calls for, and who should feel qualified to really second guess that? __________________ Not an expert, just a reporter.

December 30, 2017, 10:59 AM	#169
RKG Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2009 Location: Boston Posts: 562	Read the cited article.

December 30, 2017, 05:05 PM	#171
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Typically, the short hand "OP" in discussion forums means specifically either "original post" or "original poster" so I'm a little confused at what you are trying to solve by citing an article (without adding a link... I don't have that magazine) and mentioning the OP. The original post in this thread predates your article by four years and I am the OP. This thread exists by and for handloaders of the .327 that want to share the things they've done -- successes and failures. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

December 30, 2017, 11:25 PM	#173
ss30378 Member Join Date: October 31, 2012 Location: Alabama Posts: 21	Couple more 5.5" single seven S&B SP primer Federal cases. Power Pistol loads 60gr xtp 10.0g PP 1.440" OAL= 1952fps (200fps extreme spread, weak neck tension suspected. Will turn expander ball down .0015" and retest. A couple rounds were in the 2040fps range others were mid 1800s) 100gr xtp 8.0gr PP 1.470" OAL= 1459fps (Mid range load, very accurate, 18fps extreme spread) 75gr rim rock rnfp 6.0gr PP 1.415" OAL= 1396fps (My squirrel hunting load, low recoil, very accurate 24fps extreme spread) AA9 load 125gr rim rock swc 10.8gr AA9 1.450" OAL= 1490fps (My bigger critter load, accurate, stout recoil, 20fps extreme spread) I'll be testing 300mp powder next with the 100xtp and 125swc in the next few weeks. I'll try SP, SR, and SRM primers to see if there's a noticeable difference. I'll post my results for y'all to see.l

December 31, 2017, 01:03 AM	#174
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	NOTE on the above posted 60gr Gold Dot load... This was specifically warned against to me by Ben Amonette(ballistician) at ATK. In words more eloquent than I happen to have at the moment, he explained that extreme force on a lightly constructed bullet run FAR outside it's design scope will warp the shape of the bullet as it makes the leap from cylinder to forcing cone and damage to forcing cone over time is the result. Similarly, Speer and Hornady offer XTP-Mag and specific (Deep Curl...?) slugs in the .452" size for use at the 60k PSI range of the .460 Magnum to hopefully keep folks from wrecking their revolvers with lightly constructed .45 Colt bullets at velocities WAY beyond their ability. You may get away with the 60 grain XTP at 1,800+ FPS in a lever action rifle or any .327 Federal arm that doesn't have a flash gap, but you're risking damage to your Single Seven with those bullets at that speed. Inspect and report back if you can find damage and/or if you elect to continue. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

December 31, 2017, 01:22 AM	#175
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,888	If you got 2000+ fps out of a 5.5 inch barrel, I would wonder what you'd get out of a lever action and then I'd wonder if the jacket for those .32 ACP bullets would have issues being driven down a bore at those speeds. I think 75-85 grains is plenty light enough for the .327. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."