Small town violence

[hogdogs]

Well i was gonna brag on my local county and tell ya'll the childish "NA-NA-NAA-NAERRR" but it seems ye' ol' hogdogs is facing a recently increased risk of crime. keep in mind that most of said crime occurs "beachside" where a vast majority of both year around residents live as well as the seasonal influx of disrespectful pukes from larger populated cities arrive to "party"...
http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/Content/...es/Walton.aspx
From there, ya'll can peruse the whole breakdown although it doesn't seperate the "south walton" burden from the "real" walton county.
We are faced with a super high number of meth labs and heads due to the high number of remote locations suited to making the crap.
Brent

[bikerbill]

I too live in a small town (6k and we just got our first traffic light!) and I tend to pay attention to police reports ... the big crime news here in recent months -- a restaurant was burgled and some idiot was busted growing pot in his garage ... crime is almost a non-issue here, even tho we're just 30 miles or so from a major city ... that doesn't mean I don't have a loaded gun, etc., in my nightstand or that I ever leave the house unarmed ... it only takes one lost crackhead to ruin your day ...

[FyredUp]

8,000 is a ssmall town? Really? I live in a small rural village in Wisconsin about 30 miles north of Madison and about 100 miles west of Milwaukee. The population is a whopping 717. We have part-time police officers and about 80 hours of coverage. Otherwise we wait for the sheriff's department. Depending on where their patrol cars are the wait can be anazingly brief or up to 15 minutes or more.

Crime, or at least violent crime is not an issue here...YET. Property crime and obnoxious [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] head teenagers hanging around are the biggest issues. (Yeah, Yeah, we were all obnoxious [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] head teenagers hanging around.)

The problems arise from the influx of people from Madison and other larger cities. They have no ties to the community and some have lived here for years and remain virtual strangers. It is like this community is nothing more to them than a place to sleep and keep their stuff. The kids grow bored and restless because they are used to the city entertaining them and here they have to be imaginative or actually get up and do something, ride their bike, play sports, fish in the creek or go to the library. Nothing organized in this community for kids because, well frankly, we didn't need it. We found plenty to do and most kids still do. The greatest curse for this generation is the damn internet, 500 digital channels, xBox, Wii, Nintendo, Play Station, iPods, and cell phones. We don't interact face to face and actually seek ways to not have to. I pity this generation, I really do. Actual communication is becoming a lost art and because of it misunderstandings during communication occur all the time.

Turn the other cheek, as often as I can without compromising my integrity. Fighting over traffic behavior, or someone cutting in line, or saying something stupid? Not likely. Something that petty isn't worth dieing over.

[Master Blaster]

What has happened to us when we have to cower, conceal and hide your middle finger (when someone ticks you off). Let's just be courteous to those scum bags who insult you? What do you deserve, no respect? Don't you deserve honest and decency from the low lifes of the world? Sooner or later you have to stand up for what you believe in, or we are all lost....

Note: That is not to say you have to start something in return for everything that happens to you. Then again, you just can't just walk away from everything either. Depends on each situation.

In the olden days a gentleman had his honor to consider. If you flipped me the bird or insulted my momma, or called my wife a fat cow, in public I would have challenged you to a duel. Pistols or swords or both would have been your choice. A duel to the death or if one was wounded the aggreived party might consider his honor satisfied. People were more polite and respectful, then dueling was outlawed what a shame.

Among the lower classes one might have simply pulled a knife or a club and whopped the tar out of the other person. Since there were really no police forces back when you only had to worry aboutthe other person's relatives taking revenge.

Google Alexander Hamilton duel.

[Brian Pfleuger]

I too live in a small town (6k and we just got our first traffic light!)

Dude, 17 years ago my graduating class was 37 people....

6000 is a small CITY, not a small town...

[Ian0351]

In the olden days a gentleman had his honor to consider.

As far as I'm concerned, a gentleman still does... sadly, there are very few of us left. I agree that not every rudeness deserves a fist-fight or a duel, but some things simply are not 'forgive and forget' territory. Then again, this is not necessarily a firearms related issue for me, as the types of things I would respond to 'out of honor' I would not be using a gun for... most likely.

[Eskimo]

8,000 is a ssmall town? Really? I live in a small rural village in Wisconsin about 30 miles north of Madison and about 100 miles west of Milwaukee. The population is a whopping 717. We have part-time police officers and about 80 hours of coverage. Otherwise we wait for the sheriff's department. Depending on where their patrol cars are the wait can be anazingly brief or up to 15 minutes or more.

Crime, or at least violent crime is not an issue here...YET. Property crime and obnoxious [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] head teenagers hanging around are the biggest issues. (Yeah, Yeah, we were all obnoxious [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] head teenagers hanging around.)

The problems arise from the influx of people from Madison and other larger cities. They have no ties to the community and some have lived here for years and remain virtual strangers. It is like this community is nothing more to them than a place to sleep and keep their stuff. The kids grow bored and restless because they are used to the city entertaining them and here they have to be imaginative or actually get up and do something, ride their bike, play sports, fish in the creek or go to the library. Nothing organized in this community for kids because, well frankly, we didn't need it. We found plenty to do and most kids still do. The greatest curse for this generation is the damn internet, 500 digital channels, xBox, Wii, Nintendo, Play Station, iPods, and cell phones. We don't interact face to face and actually seek ways to not have to. I pity this generation, I really do. Actual communication is becoming a lost art and because of it misunderstandings during communication occur all the time.

Turn the other cheek, as often as I can without compromising my integrity. Fighting over traffic behavior, or someone cutting in line, or saying something stupid? Not likely. Something that petty isn't worth dieing over.

You are 100% right, all these electronics are the curse on my generation (i'm 20). I do use the computer/TV a lot, and I would say I have more conversation over text than actually talking to someone. YES, it does fry your brain in a way; it makes you uninterested and unamused.

One thing some of you older fellows need to understand.. I know that millions of young adults have the same story I do - had no friends, so I began joining chat rooms (full of millions of other kids in my situation).. Pretty soon it's all you want to do. My dad would yell at me about it, telling me to go out and get some real friends, etc.. Last year my parents divorced and my dad began using chat clients to meet new people, and I made the mistake of impersonating him - "YOU NEED TO GO OUT AND MEET PEOPLE IN REAL LIFE". This is the maddest I've ever seen him : D

On the upside, I think something about growing up on the internet has made me more intelligent than I would have been otherwise. I'm definitely a deep thinker and not much a talker, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

My children will never be allowed to use the internet more than a half-hour or so a day, and we won't have any kind of TV programming at all.

[Dragon55]

Wow

""My children will never be allowed to use the internet more than a half-hour or so a day, and we won't have any kind of TV programming at all.""
__________________

I'm sorry but as grandiose as that sounds... it will never happen.

Shucks they'll need 2 hrs of internet just to do their homework.

[Eskimo]

Well, it's obviously a different story for homework. A lot of my ideas seem a little extreme to most people.

All the time, I hear people tell me "you just think that now, wait until it happens.." but they never seem to be right. Why base your life on another person's shortcomings?

Edit - that last bit isnt directed towards you at all, Dragon.

Wow

""My children will never be allowed to use the internet more than a half-hour or so a day, and we won't have any kind of TV programming at all.""
__________________

I'm sorry but as grandiose as that sounds... it will never happen.

Shucks they'll need 2 hrs of internet just to do their homework.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by Eskimo

My children will never be allowed to use the internet more than a half-hour or so a day, and we won't have any kind of TV programming at all.

I fully understand and have great respect for that stance.

[Ian0351]

I totally agree with the no tv portion of your position Eskimo. I used to have free cable, and when I got home from work I'd sit down, scroll through 75 channels, finding nothing to watch and settle on something I had seen or didn't care about simply to kill time while I 'decompressed'. Then I moved, the current apt. doesn't provide cable and I certainly won't pay for it, and I am so much happier. For background noise I listen to music, and when I have a couple of hours to kill I take my dog to the river (last apt. didn't allow dogs, but they supplied the tv). I do, in fact, have a very nice tv I got as a christmas present which I use for video games and movies. However, we are having an exceptionally nice July in western Washington and I can honestly say that I haven't turned it on in weeks... even though I just bought a new playstation game I am very excited about.

As far as the internet goes, I think we're all guilty of overdoing that on occasion.

[orionengnr]

"Eye for an eye" was meant to LIMIT retribution. It was meant to prevent people getting killed for offenses that did not merit such.
The problem we have today is that we want LIFE for an eye, or life for a stereo, as the case may be.

I could not disagree more.

The problem is that we are continually faced with idiot DAs, idiot juries, and idiot judges accepting plea bargains, probation, etc, for serious offenses.

[Brian Pfleuger]

I could not disagree more.

The problem is that we are continually faced with idiot DAs, idiot juries, and idiot judges accepting plea bargains, probation, etc, for serious offenses.

I agree with your point. However, that has nothing to do with the origin of the "Eye for an eye" concept. It WAS meant to LIMIT retribution, to prevent people getting killed because they stole a donkey, for example, or getting an arm cut off for trampling a crop, etc.

The problem that you, and I, have with the modern system is that it is NOT "eye for an eye", it is far, far less.
The system has forgotten that cocaine can kill just as easily as a gun but the "murderer" gets life and the dealer gets a plea. Even the murderer getting a life sentence is minimalist, IMO. Take a life, lose your life, not sit in jail for 30 years with heat and air conditioning and weight rooms and cable tv...

[Hellbilly5000]

I do think with all the technology we have today it makes kids feel entitled to being entertained. I am 30 I grew up in the age of nintendo.
I played video games as a kid. If my parents thought i was inside to long they kicked me out and I went to a friends house and we played football or basketball for the rest of the day
When we were all younger parents did not worry about us if they did not see us or hear from us from 10 am till it was dark. We all did it as a kid Mom tells us to be home at dark (dark is a very subjective and debatable word for a kid) and we showed up at the last possible moment.
To some degree its the tv with all the crime dramas and video games like grand theft auto that's raising the children of today and not so much the parents.
If I had children no I would not trust them outside alone like my parents did me for fear of them not for fear that they would get in trouble.

Think about 10 years ago
You could walk out of your house with out a cell phone and you did not think twice about now I cant walk from room to room with out my iphone

more and more people are getting tired of the traffic and the crime and what not that goes with a larger city so they move to a small town and don't realize that by them moving their bringing that same element they want to get away from to the small town.
Criminals go where the nice cars nice houses and money is
Pardon the expression But criminals don't typically take a dump where they eat

[Southern_guy]

I wouldn't say everywhere is getting worse.

The small town I'm posting this from has had a long history of violence.
In the 1920s, during a feud between two different families over property (let's call them "Family A" and "Family B"), many were killed.
It started with a member of family A getting blasted off his plow with a deer rifle, then escalated to the point where a member of family B walked into church and gunned down 4 members of A with a WW1 souvenir.

During the anarchy of the 30's, an apparent member of the New Orleans mob hid here, and often picked fights with out-of-towners and killed them for fun.

And let's just say that there's a reason that nearly every minority resident until the 1970s or so "moved" "ran off" "went missing" or "had a hunting accident."

Also during the 70s, a man was disemboweled with a knife in a fight over a varsity basketball game, and a dispute between ranchers led to flocks being poisoned and booby-traps being placed, one of which killed a woman when she started her husband's truck.

But since 1980 or so? Next to nothing beyond a few vandals.

To some degree its the tv with all the crime dramas and video games like grand theft auto that's raising the children of today and not so much the parents.

Then that's the fault of the parents, not the media.

[Hellbilly5000]

Then that's the fault of the parents, not the media.

That was my point exactly Its parents not paying attention to there kids and letting sponge bob raise them

[Eskimo]

Then that's the fault of the parents, not the media.

The same idea can be applied with sending your kids to school or even bringing them along when you go shopping. They're going to run into bad things and bad people.. and that's fine, if you're a good parent.

I was brought up watching those crime movies and even playing Grand Theft Auto; if you have sensible parents that teach you right from wrong, it's not a problem at all.

I am completely unbiased on this subject, and I can tell you that the overall content of media is NOT the problem. Having your face glued to a screen is.

[Hellbilly5000]

the overall content of media is NOT the problem. Having your face glued to a screen is.

True but if the kid plays grand theft auto and the parent does not tell them that it is wrong to do that in real life Its still an issue of bad parents and parents letting a plastic box raise there kids

[Nnobby45]

What has happened to us when we have to cower, conceal and hide your middle finger (when someone ticks you off). Let's just be courteous to those scum bags who insult you? What do you deserve, no respect? Don't you deserve honest and decency from the low lifes of the world? Sooner or later you have to stand up for what you believe in, or we are all lost....

Right. We must always react in anger like a robotic puppet on a string, as we demand respect from someone who disrespected us, in the first place, just to make us angry so they'd be in control.

[BlueTrain]

I grew up in a small town of perhaps 9,000, then moved to the country when I was in high school. The small town is even smaller now because the main industry closed up shop (railroad shops for the Virginian, then the N&W railroad) and moved to another town (Roanoke). In the country I was considered to be from the city and to be frank, the small town was much more city-like than living in the suburbs. And people had all the big city complaints about the traffic and parking. If nothing else, those complaints have evaporated. Many of the local business moved to the mall outside of town and there's still no Wal-Mart, or wasn't the last time I was there. Other small towns are even worse off but there doesn't seem to be much difference in the way of crime. But some things have changed.

One is, I think people are less tolerant now. That is particularly ironic because one thinks of the 1950s as being very conformist. A rebel was someone who had a D.A. haircut and wore his shirt-tail out. If he was really bad, he had a motorbike, and we had our share of those. Yet it was also a time when people would come to your door asking for handouts, showing you dog eared cards that said they couldn't speak. It was a time when small towns had characters who shuffled around collecting empty soda bottles (we said "pop" bottles), dressed strangely and were incredibly dirty. And there were old timers who were obviously poor and would talk about delivering mail on horseback. In fact, I guess you could say we lived in a working section of town. There was a sporting goods store that seemed to have more boats than anything. These days they have way more guns than they did then. I don't recall them ever displaying handguns when I lived there.

There was a police department, which occupied half of the building shared with the fire department. On warm summer days they opened the garage door and you could see their gun cabinet. The policemen were about like Barney Fife and had swivel holsters. I suspect the policemen are a little different these days with Prussian haircuts and an attitude. But perhaps I'm being unfair.

It wasn't much different in the country, except everyone seemed to own guns, mostly long guns. No one I knew had a revolver and only one person had a .22 automatic. I got to fire it and I don't even know what kind it was. Hunting was popular but because they would shoot anything that moved, if it would hold still long enough, there was no hunting locally. A few people owned rather ancient guns, though I never saw a muzzleloader in the country, though I saw lots and lots in the "city," oddly enough. The place I moved had been in my stepmother's (my mother having died) family for over a hundred years and it was a log house (not a cabin, a house). They had a Winchester single-shot in, I think, .32-40, or some such old cartridge. It weighted what seemed like 15 pounds but I never saw anyone shoot it.

I always wondered whatever happened to that old rifle.

[Double Naught Spy]

The perception of small towns as having less crime is just that, a perception. You don't hear about it as much from small towns, historically, because small towns tended to not have news organizations and were often somewhat isolated. That isn't the case these days. We know a lot more about what happens in small towns because they are wired with the rest of the world.

The other aspect is that many small towns don't have law enforcement. Crimes happen without being reported.

I will say this based on a county social worker's insights here. Domestic violence certainly is an issue in small towns, maybe even higher than in large towns. It seems domestic abusers, like meth heads and their labs, feel security in small towns, security to not be bothered for their illegal acts.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Part of the problem of the perception of small town violence is the perception of what constitutes a small town.

6, 7, 9 thousand people is NOT a small town. It is a small CITY, which yes, is completely different than a small town.

The town I grew up in had about 600 people, maybe 2500 people in the entire school district (which is probably 10 square miles), 400 kids in the ENTIRE school, K-12.


Truly small TOWNS generally have much lower levels of violence and crime in general. Sometimes, it may not show up statistically because one guy who happens to cause trouble every weekend when he gets drunk can skew the statistics of the entire area but the people who live there know the truth.

[Hellbilly5000]

The town I grew up in had about 600 people

pete my h/s graduation class larger then your city

for the record I think anything above 2500 or so people no longer constitutes a town its a city
less then 500 is a village
less then 150 is a dot on the map if your lucky

[Brian Pfleuger]

Pete my h/s graduation class larger then your city

Holy smokes!

I think that part of the reason the crime rate tends to be lower in small towns is because you really can't help but know just about everybody. I mean, I knew absolutely every person in my class on a personal level. I knew most of the next class down and a fair number of the kids two years behind me. My mother, who runs the bus garage, can tell you the names of the parents of darn near every kid in our ENTIRE school, K-12.

It's hard to get away with much in such a place.

[Ian0351]

The best answer I can find to defines towns, cities and villages has nothing to do with population (I got this from several googled sourced not worth citing, such as yahoo answers):

A city has a Cathedral
A town has a Church and a Communal Hall
A village or hamlet is a group of houses and a Church

This may not be totally relevant to American settlement hierarchy, especially considering the plethora of denomination for which we have churches... but it is interesting.

I grew up in a town called Maple Valley, WA which incorporated (became a 'city') when I was 16, with a population of approximately 15,000 people. I think village is appropriate for places without government services (police, fire, etc) and rely on the county for such. Towns have their own services, are generally less than 25,000 people (a 'small town' is <10,000) and do not have a democratically elected City Council. Cities have said elected government, services independent from county services... particularly their own jail.