Why no .32acp revolvers?

raftman · September 22, 2011, 01:49 PM

Seems like it could be an idea that would work. It likely has enough rim to be used in a revolver without some sort of moon clips, after all they do make aftermarket .32acp cylinders for Nagant revolvers. The .32 auto is a more potent round than .32 S&W Long (though not by far), and it's much cheaper and easier to find, so it may have range gun potential.

If we're to talk about a carry revolver, the smaller diameter of the round would likely lend itself to a higher ammo capacity, smaller dimensions and lighter weight than even something like the Ruger LCR. The uber light .38 special snubbies can be punishing to shoot, even with standard pressure loads, but a .32acp revolver would likely be very mild-shooting and thus there's potential for greater accuracy.

I realize there are "better" .32 revolver rounds out there like .32H&R mag or .327, but these tend to be expensive and difficult to find; I for one have never seen any local gun shops carry the former cartridge at all. The .32acp is well established, and by comparison quite cheap and available, as cheap as $11/box in fact.

I suppose some might dub it a solution in search of a problem, but still... interested in opinions.

Bill DeShivs · September 22, 2011, 02:06 PM

I have often said that if a major manufacturer made a .32 acp double action revolver scaled to the cartridge, it would sell like crazy.
The Judge is a solution in search of a problem-look how many they have sold.
If the little .32 had an alloy frame and stainless parts, even better.
A S&W 642-style gun scaled down, or a modern top break would be great.

2damnold4this · September 22, 2011, 02:14 PM

I haven't tried it but I've heard that you can shoot .32acp in some revolvers chambered for .32 S&WL due to the semi rim.

Compared to the smaller hand ejector "I" frames of old, the J Frame does seem a bit over sized for the .32 Long.

BlackJackID · September 22, 2011, 02:16 PM

The cost of R&D and marketing for this gun, I believe, would outweigh its potential sales. I see your point from an objective standpoint, however I dont think it would be practical on a larger scale.

On Paper, yes it would work, and it does have enough rim to work in a revolver (as you said, the mosin is an example) however, I dont think it would be as reliable as revolvers should be. The smaller "rim" may cause extraction failure at times or at least make it more prone.

And with the .32 lack of a reputation as an adequate defensive round, it wouldnt be looked at as anything more than a novelty.

Jim Watson · September 22, 2011, 02:18 PM

Well there was such a thing a hundred years ago.
The 1911 Alfa (Adolf Frank, Hamburg, Ger.) catalog reprint shows a round dozen different models of small 7.65/.32 ACP revolver. Most are of the folding trigger hammer or hammerless "velodog" type, but a couple are of more conventional layout.

raftman · September 22, 2011, 03:09 PM

Quote:

The cost of R&D and marketing for this gun, I believe, would outweigh its potential sales. I see your point from an objective standpoint, however I dont think it would be practical on a larger scale.

I can see your point, but I don't think the R&D aspect would be too much of an issue, one could simply base the design on the countless existing revolver designs around today and simply scale it appropriately to the .32acp round. It's already not uncommon for firearms manufacturers to chamber a handgun of essentially the exact same design around 3, 4 or even more different cartridges. If a sufficiently reputable manufacturer were to do it, it would almost market itself.

Quote:

On Paper, yes it would work, and it does have enough rim to work in a revolver (as you said, the mosin is an example) however, I dont think it would be as reliable as revolvers should be. The smaller "rim" may cause extraction failure at times or at least make it more prone.

You me right on this. I simply am not sure how easy it would be to design a reliably-extracting revolver around a semi-rimmed cartridge like .32 auto. It may well be that this is what's been killing the idea, or it may in fact be as easy a design as one built around a rimmed cartridge.

Quote:

And with the .32 lack of a reputation as an adequate defensive round, it wouldnt be looked at as anything more than a novelty.

There's some truth to that. I suspect a fair number of people would look at as a potential defensive option, in particular for recoil-sensitive shooters and the like. But even if most people do see it as a novelty, keep in mind several manufacturers produce derringers in a variety of calibers, there's also NAA mini-revolvers, and of course, as has been mentioned, the Taurus Judge; all of these guns are seen by most people as little more than novelties, but they sell, and not only do they sell, but they sell well enough for the makers to keep making them.

Chettt · September 22, 2011, 03:20 PM

I'd buy one. It could be Kel-tec's first revolver.

aarondhgraham · September 22, 2011, 03:27 PM

No demand for them maybe?

Aarond

Magnum Wheel Man · September 22, 2011, 03:53 PM

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=252041436

raftman · September 22, 2011, 04:44 PM

That is cool and may be an example of one of he guns Jim Watson was referring to, although the auction guy says he's unsure that it genuinely is chambered for 7.65/.32acp.

In any case, I would think the idea of a .32acp revolver would benefit from more recent developments in design and technology.

Bill DeShivs · September 22, 2011, 04:45 PM

NAA sells thousands and thousands of .22 mini revolvers, and they are single action guns. Many carry them. This sort of defeats the ".32 is marginal for defense" theory.
The next largest size revolver is the "J" frame/Charter/Taurus 5 shot .38 special.
There is a definite gap there- from tiny to "too big to comfortably fit in a pocket."

S&W tools up for .50 cal revolvers. How big is that market?
A small, reliable, well made 5 shot .32 acp revolver would be in a lot of pockets and purses!

Bill DeShivs · September 22, 2011, 04:47 PM

BTW- Taurus is offering a 5 shot .380 revolver with short cylinder. This is a step in the right direction, but it's still as thick as the .38 model.
Now, if they scaled it down to .32 acp size.....

igousigloo · September 22, 2011, 04:58 PM

I have a ruger sp101 in 327 mag. I have fired a couple of hundred 32 acp rounds through it with no problems.

James K · September 22, 2011, 05:04 PM

Until fairly recently, there was almost no demand for .32 anything. Sales of the superb M1903 Colt were in the tank before the war, and after that any demand there was for the .32 ACP was met by German "bring back" pistols and a few like the Walther PP/PPK and Mauser HSc. The cartridge was so little thought of that the GCA 68 made it nearly impossible to import guns in that caliber, and even pro-gun people declared that nothing less than the .380 was even marginally acceptable in a defense gun.

The resurgence of concealed carry and the marketing of guns like the KelTec has brought back the .32 ACP. It is today no better or worse than ever, but it is also expensive and often hard to get.

But in a revolver? While the semi-rim makes it feasible for revolver use, the rim is too small for a revolver extractor to get a good bite, plus I think there is some concern about making a revolver in that caliber because too many people would think it is OK to use it in old break tops and other guns designed for low pressure or black powder rounds with less than half the pressure of the .32 ACP.

If one wants to shoot a .32 bullet out of a revolver, there are some good revolvers chambered for the .327 Magnum, a much more potent round than the .32 ACP.

Jim

savit260 · September 22, 2011, 05:13 PM

I"d rather see something roughly the size of a 5 shot .32 Safety Hammerless, (lemon squeezer) of modern design and materials, in 32 Magnum, or .327 mag. Decent enough power with positive extraction. The cylinder would obviously need to be longer.

The extraction issues of the .32acp would be a problem in my mind, unless it was a small single action.. like a scaled up NAA mini.

carguychris · September 22, 2011, 06:07 PM

Quote:

...there's also NAA mini-revolvers... these guns are seen by most people as little more than novelties, but they sell, and not only do they sell, but they sell well enough for the makers to keep making them.

A tiny DA/SA mini-revolver has been sold, albeit in .22 Long- the S&W .22 Hand Ejector aka "Ladysmith" (lowercase "s"). However, S&W's experience trying to sell this gun uncovered several problems with the idea:

The very small size of the DA lockwork made for difficult fitment and high manufacturing costs.
High costs forced S&W to sell the gun for more money than comparable derringers, constraining sales.
The small and delicate lockwork parts weren't strong enough to withstand double-action fire. This makes sense; if you have to transmit X amount of force to crush the primer and fire the round, but you can't use larger levers to do it, you must work those levers harder, which means that they break more often. This led to a high rate of service returns.

S&W discontinued the .22HE because (a) it sold slowly, (b) it wasn't profitable, and (c) the high rate of breakage was costing the company money, not to mention threatening their reputation as a high-quality gunmaker. (The fanciful myths about its popularity with women of the night are just that- fanciful myths.

)

Single-action guns work better when shrunk to miniature size because the lockwork doesn't have to transmit the force necessary to cock the hammer.

IMHO the prospects for profitably selling a miniature .32ACP DA/SA revolver are not good.

raftman · September 22, 2011, 06:37 PM

Quote:

I have a ruger sp101 in 327 mag. I have fired a couple of hundred 32 acp rounds through it with no problems.

Not even with extraction?

Quote:

A tiny DA/SA mini-revolver has been sold, albeit in .22 Long- the S&W .22 Hand Ejector aka "Ladysmith" (lowercase "s"). However, S&W's experience trying to sell this gun uncovered several problems with the idea...

But I wonder how fair a comparison that is. The .22 Long is much smaller than .32acp, in fact smaller than .22lr as well. If I am thinking of the same gun, the S&W in question ceased production some 90 years ago, so I am thinking when you couple the fact that you wouldn't need to scale down the lockwork and so on to the same extent for a .32, with the fact that today we have more modern manufacturing techniques, materials, and so forth that idea would be feasible. If course, it can be made to extract reliably.

graysmoke · September 22, 2011, 06:43 PM

I prefer a .25 over a .32acp.....I have heard a .32 caliber bullet ricoched (bouced) off a black mans head.
How true was that...Who knows?...No offence to any fine black folk readers.

The .32 has no penetration capability.....The .32 Mag does.

Dragline45 · September 22, 2011, 07:11 PM

Quote:

NAA sells thousands and thousands of .22 mini revolvers, and they are single action guns. Many carry them. This sort of defeats the ".32 is marginal for defense" theory.
The next largest size revolver is the "J" frame/Charter/Taurus 5 shot .38 special.
There is a definite gap there- from tiny to "too big to comfortably fit in a pocket."

S&W tools up for .50 cal revolvers. How big is that market?
A small, reliable, well made 5 shot .32 acp revolver would be in a lot of pockets and purses!

I have been thinking the same exact thing for a while now, as some may remember the thread I started wondering if people would be interested in a 5 shot .32 caliber revolver for a BUG or pocket carry.

Also for those that say a small .32 pocket gun wont sell then please explain why seecamp sells so many of those tiny pistols. The revolver would offer a wider variety of ammo possibilities, since in the Seecamp you are limited to a hollow point round and have to try a bunch of different brands to find what works best.

bossman · September 22, 2011, 07:35 PM

why? to small 38 is good to go.

Seaman · September 22, 2011, 07:37 PM

The S&W Model 30 J-frame revolver, 6-shot 1.30" wide cylinder, barrel stamped '32 LONG CTG' (circa 1950s) also chambers and shoots and ejects 32 ACP cartridges just fine, no problemo. Furthermore, it is accurate.

Have also tried 32 H&R Mag thru it and that penetrates slightly better than the the 32 ACP, but not by much...however the gun doesn't like hotter 32 H&R Mag....jammed the cylinder, so I'll stick to 32 ACP.

It is slightly smaller than a 38 spl S&W J-frame, about 1/4 inch less OAL.

Nice pocket carry, a keeper.

igousigloo · September 22, 2011, 07:50 PM

Extraction is all six at the same time. No Problem. This was range shooting, If I am carrying this it will be loaded with 327 mag. ammo.

Dragline45 · September 22, 2011, 09:26 PM

Quote:

why? to small 38 is good to go.

If there was a 5 shot .32 revolver the cylinder would be thinner than the current J frame cylinder, hence making it very slim and a nice pocket or BUG gun.

Joe the Redneck · September 22, 2011, 09:45 PM

I don't think there is much support for light and moderate revolvers.

Look at all the "Sasquatch Revolvers" that are on the market. No one wants a revolver that doesn't cost $3 a round and snap your wrist back like a mousetrap.

Much as don't really care for their looks, I thnk a 6 shot "polyvolver" in 32 acp would be great. I don't want a 32 cannon. I want a light gun that fires light bullets that go where I need them to go.

In my heart, I feel "iffy" about autos. They can jam or stovepipe, or even the dreaded "rimlock"

Revolvers just shoot. I like that.

joegator · September 22, 2011, 09:46 PM

I have an old .32 S&W lemon squeezer as well as several "j" frames. There is a considerable size difference. A .32 ACP based on the old S&W lemon squeezer frame would be a very compact pocket pistol even with a 3" barrel. I'd probably buy one. It might be a novelty but it would fill a niche and I think if it were well made it would find a market.

September 22, 2011, 01:49 PM	#1
raftman Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,890	Why no .32acp revolvers? Seems like it could be an idea that would work. It likely has enough rim to be used in a revolver without some sort of moon clips, after all they do make aftermarket .32acp cylinders for Nagant revolvers. The .32 auto is a more potent round than .32 S&W Long (though not by far), and it's much cheaper and easier to find, so it may have range gun potential. If we're to talk about a carry revolver, the smaller diameter of the round would likely lend itself to a higher ammo capacity, smaller dimensions and lighter weight than even something like the Ruger LCR. The uber light .38 special snubbies can be punishing to shoot, even with standard pressure loads, but a .32acp revolver would likely be very mild-shooting and thus there's potential for greater accuracy. I realize there are "better" .32 revolver rounds out there like .32H&R mag or .327, but these tend to be expensive and difficult to find; I for one have never seen any local gun shops carry the former cartridge at all. The .32acp is well established, and by comparison quite cheap and available, as cheap as $11/box in fact. I suppose some might dub it a solution in search of a problem, but still... interested in opinions. __________________ "My momma, she done told me, there's heart and then there's hate If one of 'em's inside of you, the other one, it aint."

September 22, 2011, 02:06 PM	#2
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,986	I have often said that if a major manufacturer made a .32 acp double action revolver scaled to the cartridge, it would sell like crazy. The Judge is a solution in search of a problem-look how many they have sold. If the little .32 had an alloy frame and stainless parts, even better. A S&W 642-style gun scaled down, or a modern top break would be great. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

September 22, 2011, 03:27 PM	#8
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	No demand for them maybe? Aarond __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

September 22, 2011, 03:53 PM	#9
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	Cool... http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=252041436 __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

September 22, 2011, 04:44 PM	#10
raftman Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,890	That is cool and may be an example of one of he guns Jim Watson was referring to, although the auction guy says he's unsure that it genuinely is chambered for 7.65/.32acp. In any case, I would think the idea of a .32acp revolver would benefit from more recent developments in design and technology. __________________ "My momma, she done told me, there's heart and then there's hate If one of 'em's inside of you, the other one, it aint."

September 22, 2011, 02:14 PM	#3
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,526	I haven't tried it but I've heard that you can shoot .32acp in some revolvers chambered for .32 S&WL due to the semi rim. Compared to the smaller hand ejector "I" frames of old, the J Frame does seem a bit over sized for the .32 Long.

September 22, 2011, 02:16 PM	#4
BlackJackID Senior Member Join Date: September 14, 2011 Posts: 159	The cost of R&D and marketing for this gun, I believe, would outweigh its potential sales. I see your point from an objective standpoint, however I dont think it would be practical on a larger scale. On Paper, yes it would work, and it does have enough rim to work in a revolver (as you said, the mosin is an example) however, I dont think it would be as reliable as revolvers should be. The smaller "rim" may cause extraction failure at times or at least make it more prone. And with the .32 lack of a reputation as an adequate defensive round, it wouldnt be looked at as anything more than a novelty.

September 22, 2011, 02:18 PM	#5
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	Well there was such a thing a hundred years ago. The 1911 Alfa (Adolf Frank, Hamburg, Ger.) catalog reprint shows a round dozen different models of small 7.65/.32 ACP revolver. Most are of the folding trigger hammer or hammerless "velodog" type, but a couple are of more conventional layout.

September 22, 2011, 03:20 PM	#7
Chettt Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2006 Posts: 238	I'd buy one. It could be Kel-tec's first revolver.

September 22, 2011, 04:45 PM	#11
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,986	NAA sells thousands and thousands of .22 mini revolvers, and they are single action guns. Many carry them. This sort of defeats the ".32 is marginal for defense" theory. The next largest size revolver is the "J" frame/Charter/Taurus 5 shot .38 special. There is a definite gap there- from tiny to "too big to comfortably fit in a pocket." S&W tools up for .50 cal revolvers. How big is that market? A small, reliable, well made 5 shot .32 acp revolver would be in a lot of pockets and purses! __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

September 22, 2011, 04:47 PM	#12
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,986	BTW- Taurus is offering a 5 shot .380 revolver with short cylinder. This is a step in the right direction, but it's still as thick as the .38 model. Now, if they scaled it down to .32 acp size..... __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

September 22, 2011, 04:58 PM	#13
igousigloo Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2011 Location: central Ohio Posts: 135	32 acp revolver I have a ruger sp101 in 327 mag. I have fired a couple of hundred 32 acp rounds through it with no problems.

September 22, 2011, 05:04 PM	#14
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Until fairly recently, there was almost no demand for .32 anything. Sales of the superb M1903 Colt were in the tank before the war, and after that any demand there was for the .32 ACP was met by German "bring back" pistols and a few like the Walther PP/PPK and Mauser HSc. The cartridge was so little thought of that the GCA 68 made it nearly impossible to import guns in that caliber, and even pro-gun people declared that nothing less than the .380 was even marginally acceptable in a defense gun. The resurgence of concealed carry and the marketing of guns like the KelTec has brought back the .32 ACP. It is today no better or worse than ever, but it is also expensive and often hard to get. But in a revolver? While the semi-rim makes it feasible for revolver use, the rim is too small for a revolver extractor to get a good bite, plus I think there is some concern about making a revolver in that caliber because too many people would think it is OK to use it in old break tops and other guns designed for low pressure or black powder rounds with less than half the pressure of the .32 ACP. If one wants to shoot a .32 bullet out of a revolver, there are some good revolvers chambered for the .327 Magnum, a much more potent round than the .32 ACP. Jim

September 22, 2011, 05:13 PM	#15
savit260 Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2006 Posts: 702	I"d rather see something roughly the size of a 5 shot .32 Safety Hammerless, (lemon squeezer) of modern design and materials, in 32 Magnum, or .327 mag. Decent enough power with positive extraction. The cylinder would obviously need to be longer. The extraction issues of the .32acp would be a problem in my mind, unless it was a small single action.. like a scaled up NAA mini.

September 22, 2011, 06:43 PM	#18
graysmoke Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2011 Location: Tennessee Posts: 378	I prefer a .25 over a .32acp.....I have heard a .32 caliber bullet ricoched (bouced) off a black mans head. How true was that...Who knows?...No offence to any fine black folk readers. The .32 has no penetration capability.....The .32 Mag does. __________________ "Keep your powder dry, and eyes on the target". -R. Lee Ermey

September 22, 2011, 07:35 PM	#20
bossman Senior Member Join Date: November 16, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 996	why? to small 38 is good to go. __________________ NRA life member When the going gets tough, I just open another beer.

September 22, 2011, 07:37 PM	#21
Seaman Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2011 Posts: 654	S&W did make a 32 ACP revolver The S&W Model 30 J-frame revolver, 6-shot 1.30" wide cylinder, barrel stamped '32 LONG CTG' (circa 1950s) also chambers and shoots and ejects 32 ACP cartridges just fine, no problemo. Furthermore, it is accurate. Have also tried 32 H&R Mag thru it and that penetrates slightly better than the the 32 ACP, but not by much...however the gun doesn't like hotter 32 H&R Mag....jammed the cylinder, so I'll stick to 32 ACP. It is slightly smaller than a 38 spl S&W J-frame, about 1/4 inch less OAL. Nice pocket carry, a keeper. __________________ For 20 years the sea was my home, always recall the sun going down, and my trusty friend, a 1911 pistol, strapped to my side.

September 22, 2011, 07:50 PM	#22
igousigloo Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2011 Location: central Ohio Posts: 135	32 acp revolver Extraction is all six at the same time. No Problem. This was range shooting, If I am carrying this it will be loaded with 327 mag. ammo. Last edited by igousigloo; September 22, 2011 at 08:02 PM.

September 22, 2011, 09:45 PM	#24
Joe the Redneck Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 1998 Location: New port richey FL us Posts: 473	I don't think there is much support for light and moderate revolvers. Look at all the "Sasquatch Revolvers" that are on the market. No one wants a revolver that doesn't cost $3 a round and snap your wrist back like a mousetrap. Much as don't really care for their looks, I thnk a 6 shot "polyvolver" in 32 acp would be great. I don't want a 32 cannon. I want a light gun that fires light bullets that go where I need them to go. In my heart, I feel "iffy" about autos. They can jam or stovepipe, or even the dreaded "rimlock" Revolvers just shoot. I like that.

September 22, 2011, 09:46 PM	#25
joegator Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 537	I have an old .32 S&W lemon squeezer as well as several "j" frames. There is a considerable size difference. A .32 ACP based on the old S&W lemon squeezer frame would be a very compact pocket pistol even with a 3" barrel. I'd probably buy one. It might be a novelty but it would fill a niche and I think if it were well made it would find a market.