Effects of an Lee lead 148 grain Wadcutter on an young crocodile (photo) - Page 2

T. O'Heir · November 2, 2016, 01:01 PM

"...sleeps in his hole the whole winter and gathers food in summer..." Any employment openings doing that? snicker.
An FMJ out of anything does not expand. Any lead bullet expands astronomically. A 148 grain WC(is a target bullet that should be loaded flush with the case mouth, not inside the case) will flatten completely upon impact with semi-hard stuff. Really isn't suitable for hunting or keeping the local fauna away from your chickens though.
A tegu(not tagua) is a monitor-like omnivorous lizard that apparently likes being around people and can be domesticated. Supposedly can be house broken too.
http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Liza...rgentine-Tegu/

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · November 2, 2016, 01:21 PM

T O heir

"sleeping the whole winter and working only on summer" that reminds me of the canadian construction industry. They have it similar like that over there (wages are astronomical for short summer work in order they can stand "the winter sleep" when the ice comes and they get layed off).
You may apply there for work.
Joke aside.

You say: <<Really isn't suitable for hunting>>
So you say an lead bullet (Wadcutter) is useless for hunting? What is the WC then worth for other than shooting paper?
Due to the lead material the WC is flattening but same is true for other meplats and bullet shapes and weights. I found the flattening of the WC is due to it's lead nature since the same does the Truncated Cone I have.
As I understand the american pioneers and settlers have hunted Hundreds of years with pure lead bullets.
Did the ancestors it all wrong?

zxcvbob · November 2, 2016, 01:35 PM

Wadcutter bullets hit like a hammer, whether they expand or not. And whether they expand or not depends a lot on what alloy they are cast from (pure lead, or a hard alloy) It's a good self-defense load for snubnose revolvers, except they don't work too well in a speedloader.

I wouldn't load them seated that deep in the cases. I don't even load them flush with the case mouth, I leave about 2mm out of the case. I think I remember from another discussion thread that you're doing it to conserve powder and achieve 9mm Luger-like performance with a "civilian" cartridge.

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · November 2, 2016, 01:40 PM

zxcvbob,

Yes that is correct.
To reduce empty airspace in the case (reduce volumen).

mikld · November 3, 2016, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Look man,this is a reloading forum.
Whether you eat your prey or not is your business,this animal posed no thtreat to you and the pictures of the damage you inflicted to it are irrelevant and offensive.You claim to kill ostriches even though there are none in S.A.and crocodiles which species does not range in Paraguay.You kill living creatures and don't even know what you kill.You obviously have issues.

Look man, I'm not a fan of TheGuyFromSouthAmerica, and I rarely read his posts anymore, but this post/attack is out of line. Bullet performance is quite relevant in a reloading forum, or are we only to post questions about theory?

I can't understand much of the PETA thinking but it sounds like you do. Killing an animal that is no threat to him? Would you sacrifice your livestock to protect a poor little alligator/crocodile/cayman/monitor lizard? Or what if small children are in the area? As the OP stated, his english isn't the best so his descriptions may not be familiar to many, and I think the zoologists here would forgive a slight mistake. I found nothing offensive in the OP's posts and no reason for this attack...

While I'm on a rant; for those that think wadcutters are only for shooting paper, one of my house gun loads is a 150 gr. DEWC over a hefty load of W231 for my 2" 38 Special. I get a bit below 800 fps, it's accurate out to 25 yds, and it will impart a lot of tissue damage without over penetration. I think it's a good SD round and I'd hunt small game and vermin with it out to mebbe 30-40 yds...

zxcvbob · November 3, 2016, 03:43 PM

Quote:

While I'm on a rant; for those that think wadcutters are only for shooting paper, one of my house gun loads is a 150 gr. DEWC over a hefty load of W231 for my 2" 38 Special. I get a bit below 800 fps, it's accurate out to 25 yds, and it will impart a lot of tissue damage without over penetration. I think it's a good SD round and I'd hunt small game and vermin with it out to mebbe 30-40 yds...

You might be fooling yourself about it not over-penetrating. I agree with everything else.

briandg · November 3, 2016, 05:20 PM

I truly believe that a 148 wadcutter even at a slightlly lower velocity compared to the old standard of a 158 round nosed lead at maybe 900 is the better round by a long shot.

Get it? I worked a funny into there! Laugh, boy, laugh!

The flat impact site is going to punch a pretty good hole and it won't slip through the tissues like a needle. I don't know what expansion you can get with a round nose lead from a .38, but I suppose it isn't going to be terribly effective.

I don't think that either of them is going to be optimal. Either of them should be pretty close or equal to the 9mm round using the FMJ round nose, using in real life situations, not compating them in jello simulations and measuring by penetration depth. Obviously, either of them would probably lose, but compare wounding capabilities, I can't see where either of the three would hold a solid advantage.

polyphemus · November 3, 2016, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Would you sacrifice your livestock to protect a poor little alligator/crocodile/cayman/monitor lizard?

A:yes,I have livestock(do you?) and don't shoot the predators.

Quote:

I can't understand much of the PETA thinking but it sounds like you do.

Sounds like you are the one who has trouble understanding.

Quote:

As the OP stated, his english isn't the best so his descriptions may not be familiar to many

OP claims he's Canadian,last I checked that was a British colony.

Quote:

I think the zoologists here would forgive a slight mistake.

He doesn't know what he's talking about and neither do you.

Quote:

I found nothing offensive in the OP's posts and no reason for this attack..

Well I did and and I responded as I pleased.

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · November 3, 2016, 06:53 PM

Yes polyphemus,

You have all right of expressing your opinion. TFL is certainly way more democratic than Cast Boolits were they started to bully-mobbing me after I expressed myself "pro Christian". Finally they (Cast Boolits) kicked me out as I wrote that the only choice there is as an General tendency in politics, is eighter "Osama or Hillarious". Seems they (Cast Boolits) got an saur throw up from this.
Remember the freedoms which are left in the world are due to the Christian heritage of the correspondant Society.

Personally I have nothing against: "God save the Queen". Anyways better than "Deutschland Deutschland ueber alles, ueber alles in der Welt". Christianity is the all decisive.

Mainstream thinking and heard behaviour has made People unable to understand other cultures and ways of thinking even if they speak english better than any englishmen.

My observations on LEAD bullets:
I have found that the lead nature of the lead bullet wheter it is an round nose, WC, SWC, Speer point or Truncated Cone makes it mushroom completely and NOT the meplat. If it's lead (mine are Wheel Wheights), any semi hard Surface will flatten it completely. if it hits soft tissue it will not expand or flatten at all and remain it's deep Penetration abilities.

But this lead vs meplat, bullet shape vs bullet material referred to Penetration and expanding has to be studied further in real life to come to an definite conclusion.

mikld · November 3, 2016, 07:00 PM

Nope, no livestock now, but I wouldn't allow foxes or coyotes in my henhouse. Same with skunks or weasels. You raise livestock to feed the wild critters? I don't know anyone (that's sane) that would.

As I understand PETA they wouldn't step on a worm and allow all the vermin to bankrupt them on principle. Sounds like you think the same, allowing predators to feed on your livestock freely.

As I read the OP he stated he was Canadian-German descent, not an ex-patriot of Canada. Really plain explanation in his third post. Just read. Besides, Canada is a country standing alone, not a colony, at least for the last few hundred years.

Your right, I'm not psychic (as you seem to be) and only understand what I read (and only what I read in black and white. I don't pretend to know all the stuff you read between the lines.).

I found your first post to be a childish, bigoted reply to a simple non-english speaking informational thread. I just think you are arguing just to make yourself feel important, and I'll not bother reading anymore of your threats/attacks, so don't bother with a reply, I won't be reading it...
.

**JohnKSa** · November 3, 2016, 07:03 PM

Cleanup work on this thread is not worth the effort, I fear.

In the future, members who have concerns about the content of a post should report the post to the staff for official action rather than attempting to perform the function of staff themselves.

November 2, 2016, 01:01 PM	#26
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...sleeps in his hole the whole winter and gathers food in summer..." Any employment openings doing that? snicker. An FMJ out of anything does not expand. Any lead bullet expands astronomically. A 148 grain WC(is a target bullet that should be loaded flush with the case mouth, not inside the case) will flatten completely upon impact with semi-hard stuff. Really isn't suitable for hunting or keeping the local fauna away from your chickens though. A tegu(not tagua) is a monitor-like omnivorous lizard that apparently likes being around people and can be domesticated. Supposedly can be house broken too. http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Liza...rgentine-Tegu/ __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

November 2, 2016, 01:35 PM	#28
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Wadcutter bullets hit like a hammer, whether they expand or not. And whether they expand or not depends a lot on what alloy they are cast from (pure lead, or a hard alloy) It's a good self-defense load for snubnose revolvers, except they don't work too well in a speedloader. I wouldn't load them seated that deep in the cases. I don't even load them flush with the case mouth, I leave about 2mm out of the case. I think I remember from another discussion thread that you're doing it to conserve powder and achieve 9mm Luger-like performance with a "civilian" cartridge. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

November 3, 2016, 05:20 PM	#32
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	I truly believe that a 148 wadcutter even at a slightlly lower velocity compared to the old standard of a 158 round nosed lead at maybe 900 is the better round by a long shot. Get it? I worked a funny into there! Laugh, boy, laugh! The flat impact site is going to punch a pretty good hole and it won't slip through the tissues like a needle. I don't know what expansion you can get with a round nose lead from a .38, but I suppose it isn't going to be terribly effective. I don't think that either of them is going to be optimal. Either of them should be pretty close or equal to the 9mm round using the FMJ round nose, using in real life situations, not compating them in jello simulations and measuring by penetration depth. Obviously, either of them would probably lose, but compare wounding capabilities, I can't see where either of the three would hold a solid advantage. __________________ None.

November 3, 2016, 07:00 PM	#35
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	Nope, no livestock now, but I wouldn't allow foxes or coyotes in my henhouse. Same with skunks or weasels. You raise livestock to feed the wild critters? I don't know anyone (that's sane) that would. As I understand PETA they wouldn't step on a worm and allow all the vermin to bankrupt them on principle. Sounds like you think the same, allowing predators to feed on your livestock freely. As I read the OP he stated he was Canadian-German descent, not an ex-patriot of Canada. Really plain explanation in his third post. Just read. Besides, Canada is a country standing alone, not a colony, at least for the last few hundred years. Your right, I'm not psychic (as you seem to be) and only understand what I read (and only what I read in black and white. I don't pretend to know all the stuff you read between the lines.). I found your first post to be a childish, bigoted reply to a simple non-english speaking informational thread. I just think you are arguing just to make yourself feel important, and I'll not bother reading anymore of your threats/attacks, so don't bother with a reply, I won't be reading it... . __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

November 3, 2016, 07:03 PM	#36
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,992	Cleanup work on this thread is not worth the effort, I fear. In the future, members who have concerns about the content of a post should report the post to the staff for official action rather than attempting to perform the function of staff themselves. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

November 2, 2016, 01:21 PM	#27
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	T O heir "sleeping the whole winter and working only on summer" that reminds me of the canadian construction industry. They have it similar like that over there (wages are astronomical for short summer work in order they can stand "the winter sleep" when the ice comes and they get layed off). You may apply there for work. Joke aside. You say: <<Really isn't suitable for hunting>> So you say an lead bullet (Wadcutter) is useless for hunting? What is the WC then worth for other than shooting paper? Due to the lead material the WC is flattening but same is true for other meplats and bullet shapes and weights. I found the flattening of the WC is due to it's lead nature since the same does the Truncated Cone I have. As I understand the american pioneers and settlers have hunted Hundreds of years with pure lead bullets. Did the ancestors it all wrong?

November 2, 2016, 01:40 PM	#29
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	zxcvbob, Yes that is correct. To reduce empty airspace in the case (reduce volumen).

November 3, 2016, 06:53 PM	#34
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	Yes polyphemus, You have all right of expressing your opinion. TFL is certainly way more democratic than Cast Boolits were they started to bully-mobbing me after I expressed myself "pro Christian". Finally they (Cast Boolits) kicked me out as I wrote that the only choice there is as an General tendency in politics, is eighter "Osama or Hillarious". Seems they (Cast Boolits) got an saur throw up from this. Remember the freedoms which are left in the world are due to the Christian heritage of the correspondant Society. Personally I have nothing against: "God save the Queen". Anyways better than "Deutschland Deutschland ueber alles, ueber alles in der Welt". Christianity is the all decisive. Mainstream thinking and heard behaviour has made People unable to understand other cultures and ways of thinking even if they speak english better than any englishmen. My observations on LEAD bullets: I have found that the lead nature of the lead bullet wheter it is an round nose, WC, SWC, Speer point or Truncated Cone makes it mushroom completely and NOT the meplat. If it's lead (mine are Wheel Wheights), any semi hard Surface will flatten it completely. if it hits soft tissue it will not expand or flatten at all and remain it's deep Penetration abilities. But this lead vs meplat, bullet shape vs bullet material referred to Penetration and expanding has to be studied further in real life to come to an definite conclusion.