7th Grader suspended for Airsoft in his own yard

[Yankee Traveler]

Ok, this is my first thread in the L & CR section, not 100% sure it belongs here so mods, move at will.

Found this on Fox this morning...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/24...n-in-own-yard/

I am astounded. A few kids were playing with some airsoft pistols and a neighbor called 911. My first thought is a grump with a beef against the kid, could be wrong.

But there is a comment about the schools zero tolerance policy extends to private property. How? Under what authority can a school district decide they have authority over students that are not at school, or even during school time?

I am truly astounded that they feel they have this power and will be even more suprised if it goes unchecked in VA. But, I have not lived in VA Beach in 10-11 years so things may have changed.

Somebody please explain to me how a school district can do this?

[Yankee Traveler]

More info from the local station

http://www.wavy.com/web/wavy/news/lo...e-gone-too-far

This seems to me to be a Law Enforcement issue that VBPD has decided not to press charges, so again, where does the school find it's authority to suspend or expel these kids for something not school related?

[SHE3PDOG]

An air soft gun isn't a firearm, so I can't imagine the school has a leg to stand on in his expulsion. Furthermore, I wonder how this would affect kids who go hunting or target shooting that have actual firearms. This seems like a very ignorant policy.

[Aguila Blanca]

I weep for my country and what the future holds in store for my daughter and potential grandchildren ...

This is unbelievable. I hope the parents sue the school board and I hope they take them to the cleaners. This nonsense of schools punishing students for things they do outside of school and off school property has to be stopped.

If there's a legal fund, someone please post the address. I sent a check to support Jared, the kid with the NRA tee shirt. I could scrape up a few bucks to send for this kid, as well.

Originally Posted by article

A neighbor saw Khalid shooting the airsoft gun in his front yard. She told the dispatcher, "He is pointing the gun, and it looks like there's a target in a tree in his front yard."

WAVY.com located the 911 caller and spoke to her. She confirmed Khalid was taking target practice using a zombie hunter airsoft gun to kill the zombies. There is also a net behind the target to catch the plastic pellets.

The caller also knew the gun wasn't real and said so. "This is not a real one, but it makes people uncomfortable. I know that it makes me 9uncomfortable), as a mom, to see a boy pointing a gun," she told the 911 dispatcher.

I hope this "mom" is really proud of herself. She KNEW the gun was a toy, but she went ahead and called the cops on a couple of boys who were using TOY guns to do what boys do -- shoot toy guns.

Sheesh.

[Musketeer]

By the school's interpretation even shooting a a range under supervision is an offense. They have gone way overboard.

[Kimio]

The Brainwashing continues, yet another push to further indoctrinate the youth of tomorrow into believing that all firearms are bad and need to be abolished from "civil" society and legally owned by the civilian populace.

This is absolutely disgusting and completely disheartening. I can understand if the kids brought them to school, but since when did schools have jurisdiction over MY kids when they're on MY property? I hope the school gets torched in the courts, this crap is getting so far out of line that I can't even think straight on the matter anymore.

[TLeo]

I can not see how it is possible for the school to suspend any kid for this when it did not occur on school property. They were in his yard playing...not on a bus or school grounds. Even had they been standing beside the road waiting for their bus....they were still not on any type of property that a school has any say over. This matter should be totally between the kids, local police and the parents and since the local police found no reason to bring any charges, the over reaching school admin needs to back the hell off. If I am his parents I find a lawyer and sue the crap out of the school and administrator.

[BigD_in_FL]

I hope they file a lawsuit not only against the school district but against that mom who called 911; she did file a false 911 report as there was no danger.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by BigD in FL

I hope they file a lawsuit not only against the school district but against that mom who called 911; she did file a false 911 report as there was no danger.

It would appear that she did NOT file a false report. It appears that the 911 caller acknowledged that the "gun" was a toy. The municipality apparently has an ordinance addressing the use of airsoft guns (I can't bring myself to call them either "firearms" or "weapons"), so a call to report that someone appeared to be violating that ordinance is not a false report. Is it ridiculous and hysterical? You betcha ... but not false.

[csmsss]

The caller also knew the gun wasn't real and said so, "This is not a real one, but it makes people uncomfortable. I know that it makes me (uncomfortable), as a mom, to see a boy pointing a gun," she told the 911 dispatcher

This is where it should have ended. The dispatcher or his/her supervisor should have told the caller that 911 is to be used only for the reporting of actual crimes and emergencies, and NOT because people feel uncomfortable. The police officer(s) should never have been dispatched to the scene.

[Yankee Traveler]

I could understand if they were at the bus stop harassing other kids. It's still stretching, but I could almost wrap my head around the fact that parents do expect their kids to be safe from doorstep to doorstep, and they also expect someone else to be liable for them.

But not in his own yard, 70 yards from the bus stop. And how did the school find out? Did the "concerned" neighbor not get the answer or result she wanted from the 911 dispatcher so she went to the school? Very curious.

[Yankee Traveler]

Principal was notified by police...

http://www.wavy.com/

There is a link to his letter, a pdf, as well as audio of the 911 call.

[Kimio]

Hmm, this does shed some light on the situation. As the letter states, it sounds like they children were taking shots at other students rather than just at each other.

Setting my initial outrage aside, it certainly brings in some interesting information, provided that is really what was happening.

So the question now stands, if the kids were indeed shooting at other students, does the jurisdiction of the school extend to the sidewalks where students travel as well?

More information is needed. Don't I feel like a fool now reacting without proper data.

the plot thickens

[jimbob86]

An air soft gun isn't a firearm, so I can't imagine the school has a leg to stand on in his expulsion.

A pointed finger or a cookie bitten into a gun-like shape is not a firearm, either, but with the brainless zero tolerance policies they have these days, those things result in suspensions/expulsions, too.

[SamNavy]

If the boy was shooting at kids who had just gotten off the bus, then I would strongly argue that the school has some jurisdiction.

You can always argue/claim a "distance" to or from the bus-stop where the schools responsibility ends... the easy example is if there was a crazy wild-eyed homeless man in tench-coat standing at the bus-stop and the driver let the kids out in front of him... vs. the kid half-a-block away with an airsoft gun shooting from his yard. What about a kid who's house is directly in front of the bus-stop vs. a kid who has to walk 1/4 mile... tough one to try and say that one kid is completely covered for his walk down the driveway while the other kid runs that gauntlet and hopes not to get shot.

So what responsibility does the school have? If we can remove "guns" from the equation and simply focus on simple battery, covered by city ordnance, then the child is guilty of some crime (so are the parents) and should be charged.

But I'm pretty sure that ALL KIDS, regardless of whether or not they ride the bus, are governed under some sort of school rule that prohibits "fighting" at the bus-stop. So again, if we can remove "guns" from the equation and simply say that this kid was "fighting/shooting airsoft", then he's in violation of school policy... and should be suspended.

I'm not a lawyer, but I simply don't see a lawsuit panning out just because the police decided not to press charges.

REAL WORLD: On separate occasions, my wife and I have both had to stop at the bus-stop at the end of our street... middle-school kids... to stop a fight. My wife almost ran over a kid who was pushed into the street. We waited until the bus came and spoke to the driver who separated the kids on the bus. We learned where the kids lived and went to their houses that evening to speak to the parents. On the second occasion, I followed the bus to the school and spoke directly to the principal about a solution. I personally won't stand for that stuff, nor do I want it to escalate. On the next occasion, I'm going to break up the fight and call the police to the scene... see how well that goes.

[JWT]

Guess they'd really have a problem with the BB gun fights we had with the Red Ryder carbines eons ago....(We knew it wasn't the brightest idea, but did it anyhow. Never had anyone hurt)

[glh17]

I'm not sure where I stand on this. If the kids were just playing with airsoft guns in the kid's yard, well away from the bus stop, I don't see a problem. However, if they're shooting at other kids on their way to bus stop I understand the school's concern. Principals have some authority when it comes to bus stops and buses.

I don't really know what an "airsoft" gun is and what it's capable of. I googled and found it does shoot plastic balls but not nearly as hard as a bb gun shoots bbs. The question is whether kids not involved with the game where shot at and whether these plastic balls are capable of injury. I know if my dad had found me shooting other kids with a bb gun the least of my worries would be school suspension.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by SamNavy

If the boy was shooting at kids who had just gotten off the bus, then I would strongly argue that the school has some jurisdiction.

You could argue that, and I would even support your right to argue that ... but I would have to disagree with you.

However, that doesn't apply. They were not disembarking from the bus, they were waiting for the bus. And the other students who were shot at were not "random victims" who were shot at while waiting for the bus, they were his friends who had agreed to engage in an airsoft shoot-out.

In other words, the exact same kind of cops-n-robbers or cowboys-n-indians shoot-outs I used to engage in on the school playground when i grammar school, except that these kids had "guns" that expelled plastic pellets and all my friends and I had were inert toy guns, and mouths that yelled, "Bang! I gotcha ... you're dead." I must be a highlander, because despite all the times I was "killed" I seem to be still more or less alive.

[4runnerman]

Leaves you wanting to home school.

[jmr40]

It was at a school bus stop. The school is responsible for activites that happen there just as much as if it happened at school. This suspension will stand and hold up in any court.

Reading the OP made it sound as if it were far different than when reading the news in the link.

Given a choice between Fox and CNN I'll take Fox. But they can twist stories just as far from the truth as CNN when they want to

[Wreck-n-Crew]

It was at a school bus stop. The school is responsible for activites that happen there just as much as if it happened at school. This suspension will stand and hold up in any court.

Not according to reports.

The reports state that they were at home and a neighbor called LE.

They never left the private property with the air soft either according to the report. That's what makes this such an intolerable event by the people who mean to promote their ideology through our children.

[Tom Servo]

Piers Morgan (I know, I know...) had the boys on his show tonight, along with their parents.

As it turns out, they were shooting at other students and struck several. The boys also have a record of bullying. Khalid Caraballo has been disciplined six times in the last 18 months for it, and the other child admitted to a history of the same.

Neither of the parents inspired much confidence either.

That said, the charges are still bunk. The kids were suspended for “possession, handling and use of a firearm," but pellet guns aren't firearms as per federal law.

While there's certainly some anti-gun hysteria going on here, that's not all there is to it.

[JohnKSa]

An air soft gun isn't a firearm, so I can't imagine the school has a leg to stand on in his expulsion.

You have to be careful about this.

I have lived in two different municipalities that define the crime of discharging a firearm in city limits such that shooting an airgun is included and carries the same penalty.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

I have lived in two different municipalities that define the crime of discharging a firearm in city limits such that shooting an airgun is included and carries the same penalty.

My town is currently debating a new zoning ordinance that will effectively prevent anyone from opening a "gun store" in town. Based on their definitions of guns and ammunition, any novelty store that sells even good old BBs or plastic airsoft pellets (not the guns, just the projectiles) will be classified as a "gun store" and won't be able to open, because there is already one gun shop in the commercial district and they made the required separation distance long enough that a second one just can't happen.

At least that means we'll be safe from Wal-Mart ...

[Patriot86]

I am sorry, the person calling 911 on the kid shooting an airsoft gun should be charged with a crime. Isin't it an offence to misuse the 911 system? Where is the emergency? Where is the crime? This is like calling 911 because I don't like my neighbors new lawn ornament!


I am watching my bosses two high school aged sons go through this now, pretty much anything kids do now a days outside of school regardless of where it is can/is punished by the schools. One of them is at risk of being expelled for going being arrested at a house party in another state....home schooling really is the way to go; schools have just become too damn pervasive.