I was shocked to learn.............

[OneFreeTexan]

Is bump stocks the only thing that matters?

[dogtown tom]

TruthTellers

I don't see how an organization that begs for money and pays the VP 6 million bucks (in salary and retirement benefit) while continually telling us they're fighting for change, but change never comes is something to say isn't corrupt.

First, what the NRA pays Wayne LaPierre has been public knowledge FOR DECADES.
Second, that you don't understand why the NRA begs for money explains everything. Absolutely ZERO dollars raised by the NRA ILA goes to LaPierre.....its used for lobbying and political action.
Third, If you don't aren't aware of the NRA accomplishment in the last twenty years it saddens me.

The GOA as an organization makes and spends literally half of what Wayne was paid.

And not worth a penny.
Until only recently, GOA didn't spend on political lobbying....letting the NRA ILA do the heavy lifting. It's easy to be "no compromise" when you don't really do jack squat.

You can throw stones in the glass house all you want, but to see a failure like Wayne LaPierre make that kind of money for being unable to deliver promises he always makes at the annual NRA convention is proof that Wayne's job isn't to protect gun rights, it's to keep money flowing, squeeze even more money out of the members.

I'm no fan of WLP, never have been.....but the NRA is the one the liberals fear for one reason, POWER. Power that the NRA has, that GOA has never had.

It's pretty simple to; by continually promising change and not delivering means you can keep asking for more money. All the money that the NRA raised during the Obama years went where exactly in 2017 and 2018 when it had two branches of gov't controlled by Republicans and what got done? The House passed HPA and it died in the Senate.

Incredible. As to "went where exactly".......look it up, its publicly available information.

You continue to show a complete lack of understanding of where NRA $$$ and NRA ILA $$$ are spent. How can you participate in a thread about the effectiveness of the NRA and not know the answer to your own question? That you think GOA is better pretty much ends the idea that you know much about how/where/when the NRA spends money.

Instead we got bump stocks taken away and now we're all cowering over the ATF walking back on braces and now we're looking at Anti's taking over the Senate and White House in 2021.

Your GOA will show 'em, right?

If that happens, the NRA's bank account is gonna crash over how many millions of dollars get donated and the cycle of failed promises and half-assed lawsuits begins again.

Lack of contributions to the NRA ILA means no $$$$ going to political campaigns. That means Soros and Bloomberg are outspending the NRA. Now, whose fault is it that the NRA ILA has little in the bank? You can whine and cry BUT WAYNE IS BAD MAN!!!! all day long..but the fact is he is the CEO and the board is happy with him. He's old, he isn't going to be around forever and then we'll be happy. In the meantime the LaPierreaphobes are upset over the price of his suits....not understanding that the NRA ILA didn't pay for those suits.

You are so worried about the NRA failed promises, yet conveniently ignore the GOA's complete and utter lack of ANYTHING.

A five minute examination of the NRA 990 vs the GOA should be required reading.

[TruthTellers]

When it comes to the GOA and the NRA, I'll tell you this: If the GOA got half of what the NRA does in donations, we'd see a massive shift in getting our gun rights back. It's impossible to do any lobbying when you're working with a million or two every year.

If you think that the NRA is going to stop the next AWB bill that comes next year if the wrong people get elected, you're a fool. If you think legal action and SCOTUS will grant cert to an AWB bill, you're wrong.

I'm not gonna argue, some are a lost cause who can't see the forest fire burning thru the trees.

[thallub]

The NRA is hemorrhaging money on lawsuits. After a very long corrupt and cozy relationship with their advertising agency, Ackermann-McQueen, WLP fired that agency and sued same. WLP blessed the miserably failed NRA TV show and the ill advised insurance program that got the NRA sued.

Everything that the NRA owns is mortgaged to the hilt. Wells Fargo eliminated the NRA credit line.

WLP refuses to allow an audit of NRA finances. We know that WLP has spent 100 million dollars on lawsuits: He admitted that. When the NRA blew up in May, 2019 the organization was spending $100,000 daily on lawsuits.

There is this recording of WLP:

The cost that we bore was probably about a hundred-million-dollar hit in lost revenue and real cost to this association in 2018 and 2019," LaPierre said, according to a tape recorded by a source in the room. "I mean, that's huge."

................................................................................................................


"The repeated statement from LaPierre about the $100 million cost to the NRA should have come with an apology for having manifested the situation," Carter told NPR. "The lack of accountability is troubling for many members."

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/21/83999...ation-100-mill

For sure Soros and Bloomberg are bankrolling the anti-gunners. Where are those "conservative" billionaires when we need them?

[dogtown tom]

TruthTellers When it comes to the GOA and the NRA, I'll tell you this: If the GOA got half of what the NRA does in donations, we'd see a massive shift in getting our gun rights back.

And what is that fantasy based on? Certainly nothing in the past.

It's impossible to do any lobbying when you're working with a million or two every year.

Well no kidding. VALUE FOR THE MONEY.....the NRA has it GOA doesn't. Most of GOA budget goes to Eric Pratt and his board and precious little to any program. Their IT $$$ go to a board members comapny...hows that for corrupt. Eric Pratt is no different than Wayne La Pierre....just less powerful.

If you think that the NRA is going to stop the next AWB bill that comes next year if the wrong people get elected, you're a fool. If you think legal action and SCOTUS will grant cert to an AWB bill, you're wrong.

"If I think"? I never wrote anything of the sort, but if YOU think the GOA will be better....then show us the proof. Show us where anytime in the past the GOA did anything beyond a strongly worded press release. Anything more than filing a friend of the court or piggybacking a lawsuit funded by someone else.

I'm not gonna argue, some are a lost cause who can't see the forest fire burning thru the trees.

Hey, I know the NRA is a dumpster fire, but the answer isn't the GOA. Its the equivalent of trading your Ford Pinto for a Yugo.

[Mike38]

Now, whose fault is it that the NRA ILA has little in the bank?

The NRA is at fault. People don't want to donate money to a corrupt organization. Even though the NRA and the NRA-ILA are two separate entities, people see it as one lumped together. Right or wrong, that is human nature. I know full well that the NRA and the NRA-ILA are two, but can understand how people see them as one.

[JJ45]

We need the NRA despite it's faults or maybe something similar and stronger.

BUT I'm getting sick and tired of seeing LaPIERRE'S mug shot on all the publications

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by Mike38

The NRA is at fault. People don't want to donate money to a corrupt organization. Even though the NRA and the NRA-ILA are two separate entities, people see it as one lumped together. Right or wrong, that is human nature. I know full well that the NRA and the NRA-ILA are two, but can understand how people see them as one.

This is a good point. The ILA has been extremely successful at the state level for years with all the easing of hunting regulations and the explosion of states moving from shall issue CCW's to unlicensed so long as you are not a Prohibited Person.

[the45er]

I just revisited this thread and see that I was criticized for possibly erroneously referring to LaPierre's salary as being in the $6MM per year range. Well, this is the first thing that popped up on a search:

In 2015, NRA contributions totaled $95 million. In that year, LaPierre received a $3.7 million deferred compensation distribution from his "employee funded deferred compensation plan", which was required by federal law, and according to the NRA raised his total annual compensation to $5,110,985.

Now, reading on, you can find other references to salaries. This is a "total compensation" number. I doubt the average Joe can ever find out what he really rakes in, but is he worth it, whatever it is?

[ammo.crafter]

When La Pierre's time for retirement comes, has any one been picked to assume his role? If so, does any one know who that person might be?

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by the45er

Now, reading on, you can find other references to salaries. This is a "total compensation" number. I doubt the average Joe can ever find out what he really rakes in, but is he worth it, whatever it is?

Whether you want to talk "salary" or "total compensation," it's still misleading to look at ONE YEAR when he took (and, in fact, had to take) a lump sum payout from some sort of deferred compensation fund and discuss it as if that's what he gets every year. From all I've read, it appears that his annual compensation package in normal years is around $2 million.

Don't get me wrong. I think Wayne LaPierre has ruined the NRA and I believe that he is a liability and should be fired if he won't retire. That said, I don't think it's fair to portray his total compensation for one outlier year as if that's what he makes every year.

[HiBC]

Several years ago I had a problem with the NRA. They had a deal on a 5 year membership.I sent them the money.
Soon,I got the pressure mail in the mailbox urging me to join the NRA.

I could not do my phone work from work. Initially,attempted phone calls got me a phone bank of young Beavis and Butthead types who only wanted my banking infoand could give no help.

I took vacation time,stayed home a relentlessly called till I got hold of someone.
Also,I had verified the NRA had cashed my check.

I made the offer that I did not need a magazine,I could read the Rifleman at a friends. I didn't need a hat,etc. I just wanted the money I spent to let me honestly say :I'm an NRA member.

No deal. The NRA official refused me the trust,and insisted he needed a photocopy of a cleared check.

More hours vacation time off work. I had to pay a fee at the bank.

Finally,I had the copy of the cleared check.

Then what happened is I saw a gun show bumper sticker that said "Don't trust a government that does not trust you"

I thought about how the NRA refused to trust me,at the expense only of a membership card. I thought about how much time it cost me,vacation time off work,and this was back when long distance calls were expensive.

I had the photocopy of the check in my hand,and an anger boiled up inside me...

And I was done with an organization that treated me that way.

One more thing.I wa a Junior NRA member back in the early 1960's.

The Aurora,Ill YMCA had an indoor 50 ft range where I shot.

My Colorado High school had an indoor range and rifle team. All that is gone.

Mostly what the NRA does is fill mail boxes with junk mail that says "Gimme Money"

It seems to me there is a certain balance held. If Cancer was cured,all that money and the jobs would go away. So,yes,they DO fight cancer.

And the NRA DOES fight to preserve gun rights.

But have they fought to get it RESOLVEd,the 2A is secure? Or,if it is always under threat,is it a dependable revenue stream?

IMO,its gone from a noble organization about preserving the 2A and shooting tradition to a beancounter money business that has lost its way.

Does LaPierre shoot ?

[ghbucky]

I have a similar story HiBc

My Dad gave me a life membership when I turned 16. Several years later, I was one of the people that provided $$$ to start the Whittington Center.

Life moved on, I moved a couple time, got married and lost track of my NRA stuff. As I got settled, I decided that I wanted to re-connect with shooting and the NRA. I started searching for a way to reclaim my life membership.

I called the NRA, they told me they would look for it. Never heard a word. I called them back. They can't find it. Sorry.

I joined as an annual for one year, and then realized how foolish I was to be associated with them when they threw out my life membership, so screw them.

[Tony Z]

In 2014 or 2015, I re-joined as a five year member. Within a day or two of re-upping, the NRA had a real on life memberships and I telephoned to inquire if I could apply the five year credit card charge to the five year program, with a resounding "No".

Since my five year is either up or about to be, I've been pestered with multiple calls PER DAY to re-up. Ain't going to happen, unless the NRA becomes far more open that what they are. Want proof of the pudding? Just look at this thread! No one here truly knows and understands what is going on, except for what is released in the press. Further, the NRA seems reluctant to post any counter articles to what is being alleged.

[P5 Guy]

Where are the billionaire PRO-GUN folks hiding?

[Pond, James Pond]

I'm not in America so the only real gun advocacy group open to me with any clout is Firearms United, so I have no horse in the NRA race, but I will say that at least one article I read was an expose of the NRA's inner workings and it did seem grotesquely corrupt.

It may do some good for the 2A but the NRA seems to do a lot more for its board: lots of lining of lots of well-tailored pockets.

Meanwhile existing laws aren't being applied, checks aren't being done, nasty people get guns and do hideous things and more laws get passed to appease the public anguish.

Out of interest, what is the deal with the Second Amendment Foundation?
(I think that's its name)

[aarondhgraham]

The NRA is now an ironclad bureaucracy,,,
They have succumbed to Pournelle's Iron Law.

In my university sociology classes we were shown,,,
This process only takes 7-9 years to happen to any organization.

Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy

States that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: those who work to further the actual goals of the organization, and those who work for the organization itself.

Examples in education would be teachers who work and sacrifice to teach children, vs. union representative who work to protect any teacher including the most incompetent.

The Iron Law states that in all cases, the second type of person will always gain control of the organization, and will always write the rules under which the organization functions.

I still see good works being done by the rank and file of the NRA,,,
But the "Board" simply wants to keep their cash cow well fed and producing for their benefit.

Still, they are just about the only game in town,,,
So I'll keep my membership current.

Aarond

.

[langenc]

Seems I just read he recieved a 57% raise.. True?? no idea.

Join GOA and your local state shooting assn(s) for sure. Local gun club is also a must. Get active and get them involved.

I suggested at 2 clubs that they (we) have a legislators day. Invite em all out shooting. Supply the guns/ammo. Make the gun grabbers say NO..... also invite the newspapers/TVs that day also. Let em all shoot. Will be the first time for some.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by langenc

Seems I just read he recieved a 57% raise.. True?? no idea.

Source?

[IZZY]

I have gotten "infraction" points for criticizing the NRA on this forum in the past...

Bump stock has always been a "Red Herring" you cant do much past 25 yards with one, which is why it's always been a lie.

That being stated....nobody here wins.

We all lose when one very big pro-self defense Org. goes down. The fact that NYS thinks it can disband an association of ( mostly) law abiding people tells you how bad things are.

[recoil junky]

$300,000 on fancy Armani suits? What are they made of, good and platinum?

Nah, good olde Wayne shot himself in his crotch this time.

Shoot me if you wish, but the NRA isn't what it was 40 years ago. NOBODY in the upper end were millionaires. Well ok Charlton was, but he made his acting. Wayne Lepewp is only in it for the money.

RJ