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Old March 28, 2019, 09:31 AM   #1
PhotonGuy
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Illinois FOID Card Might Be Unconstitutional

The FOID card required for Illinois residents to purchase firearms might be declared unconstitutional. If it is declared unconstitutional and particularly if this makes it to the SCOTUS it could mean big news for other states that require FOID cards. Here is a video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc9yl-0PyxY
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Old March 28, 2019, 09:40 AM   #2
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Definitely a big deal, worth keeping an eye on it.

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Old March 28, 2019, 12:04 PM   #3
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Here is article from TTAG. I doubt the FOID will be ruled unconstitutional by Illinois Supreme Court. In question is does the FOID owner need to be in possession of the FOID almost 24/7 to comply with the FOID law. Supposedly as it is written right now I would be in illegal possession of a firearm upstairs in a closet if I am downstairs eating lunch without my FOID card on my person. Most likely the current FOID law will be modified a bit.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...supreme-court/

Excerpt.

Quote:
Due to the language of 430 ILCS 65/2(a)(l) and the Court’s interpretation of the statute, it is clear that compliance is impossible when one is in ·their own home. No person could have their FOID card on their person 24 hours each and every day when firearms or ammunition are in the house.

In addition, every person in the home (family member, friend, spouse, etc.) who has knowledge of the firearms or ammunition and has immediate and exclusive control of the area where the firearms or ammunition is located, who does not have a FOID card, would be in violation of the statute.
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Old March 28, 2019, 12:13 PM   #4
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I think it is a stupid and unenforceable law that would require trampling on everyone's rights to enforce. How do you prove if someone has knowledge of the firearms? What about children who are not old enough to purchase firearms, but know that there are guns in a safe?

Meanwhile, Chiraq still had 561 murders in 2018. How many of those gang bangers have FOID cards?
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Old March 28, 2019, 02:50 PM   #5
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The specific wording of a law is not quite the same as a courts interpretation, and enforcement's instructions.

In other words, if a law says X as you and I read it, but a court says that X actually means Y, and enforcement is based on compliance with Y then it can pass muster, until./unless a different court overrules the first one.

FOID cards are not new things. Several states have had them or some equivalent for decades. I would think that if there was something grossly and clearly unconstitutional about the concept it would have been challenged in court a long time ago.

But, perhaps not, It took literally decades before a valid challenge to DC's handgun ban finally made its way through the court systems.

I wouldn't worry over much about being prosecuted for not having your card physically on you 24/7 in your own home. While the language of the law may seem to allow it, the practical side of things is that, generally speaking, if you don't have the gun physically on you (or in your hands) you don't have to have the card on you. If you do have a gun on you, then, you do, or you could be charged.

I'd love to see a case where you were grabbed from your bed in the middle of the night, and charged for not having your "papers" on you, for a gun locked in a safe in a different room of your own home. No prosecutor would be stupid enough to try and take that before a jury. And even if they did, even the most gun hating judge would have a hard time not throwing that case out.

If they make the argument that you had "possession" of a the gun because it was in your house, under your control, then you ALSO have possession of the required FOID in your house and under your control at the very same time.
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Old March 28, 2019, 10:52 PM   #6
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I had one of those evil things until I moved to a reasonable thinking state like Wisconsin.

Wisconsin DNR makes a lot of money from guns every year.
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Old April 4, 2019, 03:37 AM   #7
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Illinios FOID card might be "Unconstitutional"?, no it is "Unconstitutional" period.
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Old April 4, 2019, 10:10 PM   #8
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I often visit IL, another awful feature of the state is a non resident cant even get a FOID, nevermind an LTC.. now by at least practice it appears a non resident LTC counts as a FOID as far as possession is concerned, ie have a legal firearm.. but then what I have read are also are conflicting accounts as far as if you can even buy ammo.

Needless to say my firearms activities there are 0 but compared to say MA even, which is a terrible place, they make it even harder in IL for non residents while MA has actual clear processes that might allow a non resident an LTC even
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Old April 6, 2019, 08:57 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riffraff
I often visit IL, another awful feature of the state is a non resident cant even get a FOID, nevermind an LTC.. now by at least practice it appears a non resident LTC counts as a FOID as far as possession is concerned, ie have a legal firearm.. but then what I have read are also are conflicting accounts as far as if you can even buy ammo.
The Illinois Supreme Court has ruled that non-residents cannot be prohibited from possessing firearms without FOID since a FOID cannot be issued to them. So any non-resident can possess firearms in Illinois provided they obey the transport laws. A non-resident only needs a carry license from their home state in order to carry a loaded handgun in their vehicle.
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Old April 8, 2019, 09:51 PM   #10
riffraff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armed_Chicagoan View Post
The Illinois Supreme Court has ruled that non-residents cannot be prohibited from possessing firearms without FOID since a FOID cannot be issued to them. So any non-resident can possess firearms in Illinois provided they obey the transport laws. A non-resident only needs a carry license from their home state in order to carry a loaded handgun in their vehicle.
I noticed this a little late - certainly would look into this further before I go having guns in IL but you are saying you believe a non resident can have a rifle without a FOID or carry license (provided of course they are not prohibited persons) ?

What about buying ammo? Can a non resident buy ammo in IL and what do they need to be able to do it?

I've read some real conflicting things on the state of IL (not talking about CHI either just the state law side of things).
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Old April 9, 2019, 12:22 PM   #11
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Yes, residents of other states are allowed to transport and possess firearms in IL without a FOID. They cannot carry them (which the FOID does not cover anyway).
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Old April 10, 2019, 09:49 PM   #12
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Illinois must be doubling down on the FOID card. Saw a blurb from the ISRA that says they are considering requiring finger printing just to get a FOID. Also raising the fees x10, and requiring you to show in person at a state police headquarters to apply.
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Old April 11, 2019, 02:50 PM   #13
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I agree that the law would be an invalid abridgment of the 2A depending on how possession is construed. It is unreasonable to require me to have it on my person while in the shower or at all times. If interpreted to include constructive possession of the card, that is another thing and does that not serve the intent of requiring a card?
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Old April 12, 2019, 12:51 PM   #14
sigarms228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike38 View Post
Illinois must be doubling down on the FOID card. Saw a blurb from the ISRA that says they are considering requiring finger printing just to get a FOID. Also raising the fees x10, and requiring you to show in person at a state police headquarters to apply.
Yeah same here. I just renewed mine last fall so I am good for 10 years and just sent renewal in for wife a couple days ago via ISP website. We will be long gone from Illinois by the time they expire again.

It does not make sense to ban private sales in Illinois because we already have UBC law and can only sell to another FOID holder and we have to check with ISP website to get approval code proving that the buyers FOID is still valid. I am betting they want the serial numbers of firearms involved as a form of back door registration to use for future gun bans.

More details.

https://www.nraila.org/articles/2019...rms-introduced

Quote:
House Amendment 1 to House Bill 96, filed by Representative Kathleen Willis (D-77), would criminalize private transfers, require local law-enforcement to obtain warrants to seize firearms from holders of revoked Firearm Owner’s Identification Cards (FOID), and make the process to apply for a FOID card more expensive and cumbersome by requiring applications be made in person with Illinois State Police (ISP). In addition, it would reduce the duration of the FOID from ten years to five and mandate that applicants submit fingerprints.
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Last edited by sigarms228; April 12, 2019 at 12:58 PM.
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Old April 13, 2019, 01:01 PM   #15
T. O'Heir
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Illinois, as I recall, has already been told by the U.S. SC that Illinois' gun laws are unconstitutional. Illinois politicians didn't care.
"...raising the fees x10..." Not bad. When we still had the Firearms Acquisition Certificate, our idiot Conservative government, the leader of which(supposed to be on our side) swore he'd "Fix" the gun laws, raised the fee by 500%.
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Old April 15, 2019, 07:03 AM   #16
PhotonGuy
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Quote:
Illinois, as I recall, has already been told by the U.S. SC that Illinois' gun laws are unconstitutional. Illinois politicians didn't care.
If Illinois gun laws are unconstitutional as declared by the SCOTUS, than regardless of whether or not the politicians care, how can they get away with having them?
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Old April 15, 2019, 09:10 AM   #17
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Quote:
If Illinois gun laws are unconstitutional as declared by the SCOTUS, than regardless of whether or not the politicians care, how can they get away with having them?
DC and Chicago appear to have used the same resistance plan. They lose Heller and McDonald respectively, then pass codes that make it conceptually possible, but practically impossible.

Require certification or training at a range in the jurisdiction, but don't allow any public ranges in the jurisdiction. Allow application for pistols, but simply deny them all. Require that a firearm be purchased in the jurisdiction knowing that there is only one FFL in the jurisdiction. In short, rather than meet the judicial rebuke with a good faith effort at compliance, fail to comply and dare litigants to spend their time and money taking the issue back to court.
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Old April 15, 2019, 12:48 PM   #18
sigarms228
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I don't believe there is a single gun store in Chicago yet. Chicago set up zoning laws to make it almost impossible and other expenses to deter. The latest Illinois gun dealer licensing act recently signed by new governor is another attempt to keep gun stores out of Chicago and also to attempt to close ones in nearby suburbs by making it too costly to keep open with required upgrades or simply harass them into submission to close their gun stores with constant compliance checks and massive penalties for each and every violation including having certain signs hung on doors and walls.
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Old April 17, 2019, 09:32 PM   #19
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Residents of border states to Illinois are allowed to buy ammunition with their drivers license for proof. I grew up in Illinois but moved out in 2001 to Michigan, glad I did and have no regrets. That FOID charade is nothing but a form of control and a money maker for a broke d--k state. Illinois does not do reciprocy for conceal carry, so you must un-arm yourself and stow your weapon in a case for transport until out of that land. Very sad when your not allowed conduct commerce for a simple box of .22 ammo, when visiting.
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